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Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$?

Is the Honda Accord Hybrid, considering ownership experiences (economy, performance, comfort, reliability) worth the additional premium when compared to other midsized sedans and hatchbacks?

 

Also, is it a good value compared to the other available hybrids from Toyota and Ford?
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Comments

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    The Accord hybrid is the first ever "no compromise" hybrid.

     

    No power loss (actually more powerful by 15 HP than the comparable gas EX V6)

     

    What you get is a better city rating (30 in the HAH versus 21 in the V6 EX) and a better highway rating (37 in the HAH versus 30 in the V6 EX) and thus you save money on gas versus a comparable car.

     

    ALSO, if you were to compare vehicles of that size, cost, and trim level from other carmakers, do you find ANYTHING with 255 horsepower and a combined city/hwy EPA Miles Per Gallon rating of 33.5 MPG?

     

    Nope. Nope. And Nope.

     

    It's a new category all by itself.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    What you get is a better city rating (30 in the HAH versus 21 in the V6 EX) and a better highway rating (37 in the HAH versus 30 in the V6 EX) and thus you save money on gas versus a comparable car.

     

    That is what those that purchase are hoping for in mileage. I would say a full blown HAH with NAV is worth $30k. That is about $3000 over what a V6 EX-L with NAV is selling for. I think that $35-36K asking price is too high, and will get you at trade-in time. If you keep a car for 10 years & 150k miles it is no big deal. If dealers in LA are already selling below MSRP maybe the rip-offs will end. San Diego is always harder to get a good deal than Orange County and LA. I find all of CA over priced. I try to squeeze a nickel till Jefferson's eye bugs out.
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    Why do people assign a "hybrid premium" and think it is the worse thing since the Holocaust?

     

    Can't you just say "I'm paying more for a better car" which is what is actually happening?

     

    Is there such a thing as an "EX premium" for those who are shopping for an LX?

     

    No. You pay more for an EX compared to an LX because you GET MORE.

     

    So why is there a "hybrid premium?"

     

    You are paying more for a better car. Period. Simple. It's an EX on steroids.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    Why do people assign a "hybrid premium" and think it is the worse thing since the Holocaust?

     

    I think a $3000 premium is justified for all the extra stuff. I don't think $8k or $9k is justified. If you do go for it. I think about trade-in even if I decide to keep it. You lose every penny of that dealer markup before the ink dries on the paper. If you were to invoke the lemon law they will give you Blue Book as a recovery. The closest car to the HAH is the V6 EX-L. With NAV they show a TMV of $27,746 in my area. That is about $1400 over invoice. To pay even $3k difference is a lot for a battery and a motor. Remember you lose a lot of trunk space and the moonroof. Ask Viet the NAV is the best thing in the Accord so why pay $8000 more for 15HP and possible headaches when the hybrid stuff starts acting up?
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    The problem with the question "Is it worth the extra $$$$?" is that value is relative. If someone is looking for just basic transportation, they can get by just fine with an Accord DX, and a used one at that. That car will get you and your family from Point A to Point B just fine, and if you opt for the manual tranny you'll get fuel economy within about 10% of the HAH based on EPA ratings. All for about $15,000 less than the HAH (more if you get a used DX).

     

    So why pay more for the HAH? Depends on your priorities and how much it's worth to you to satisfy them. How much is a leather interior worth to you? How much is the power of a V6 vs. an I4? How much is a navi system worth? How much is the exclusivity and extra performance of the hybrid version worth?

     

    In other words, this is a personal choice and personal decision. Many people make major purchases based on emotion, not on quantitative criteria. I go the quantitative route when I buy cars, but not entirely--I won't buy certain cars because I think they're ugly or the wrong color, for example. But I also won't spend more than I need to in order to meet my transportation requirements. Thus, would I buy an HAH today? No. Would I buy one tomorrow? No. Would I buy ANY V6 sedan now or in the near future? No. Why? Because smaller cars meet the needs of my family and me, and I have better uses for my money.

     

    For those people who don't mind spending $30k on the latest in automotive technology, and for those for which the HAH puts a smile on their face, I say, "Have fun!" There's a lot worse ways to spend $30k.
  • This is from Allan Mallinger's book TOO PERFECT (Fawcett '92):

     

    "I find that many obsessives harbor a fear of being exploited financially - one component of an overall tendency to be guarded with money. Frugality may take many forms, including the following:

     

    - A reluctance to spend money on anything but true necessities.

     

    - The need to get the very best buy - regardless of how much time and effort are expended in shopping for it.

     

    ........

     

    - Pride in making one's possessions last a long time."

     

    I think you're trying to transplant your overall worldview (and perhaps mine as well) onto all car buyers. While I think it's true that many Honda Civic Hybrid owners (such as myself!) fall into Mallinger's nasty categories, as do many owners of the Prius and Insight and many diesel owners, I doubt that many Honda Accord Hybrid buyers are concerned at all with saving much money.

     

    In other words, it's worth the money. To them. It's a luxury purchase, not a necessity.

     

    So I doubt that pointing out a buck here or five thousand bucks there matters re: the HAH.

     

    Folks who spring for the HAH are not inferior, irrational car buyers.

     

    In fact, the psychological community might suggest that they're a lot healthier than those of us who hang around here and wring our hands about it!
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    So if you buy the standard V-6 and the HAH at MSRP, there is about a $3K difference right. And the numbers say there is 25% greater mpg (let's use EPA for now). Say over the next few years the avg. gas price is $2.00. So lets see every 1K miles the HAH will use 30gal or $60 of gas. The reg. V-6 will use 40 gal = $80. So you save $20 / 1K miles.

     

    Or you don't break even until 150K miles right? No it is even worse then that because of the Time Value of Money. When you buy the HAH you are paying interest on that $3000 difference. If the interst rate is 5%, it costs you $15 per month interest which is most of your $20 gas savings. And then by 150K miles the hybrid system is going to have cost you some $, and maybe serious money.

     

    So financially no it isn't worth it. If it makes you feel better YOU didn't burn the gas, and someone else did here in the country in their hemi, or some new driver in China, then maybe it was worth it. ;-)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    "I really want a quick car. But the DW [or DH] says we have to get a practical car. A sedan that seats five, is reliable, all that boring stuff! <expletive deleted>"

     

    "Wait... C/D says the HAH goes 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, and is EPA rated like an economy car! And it's an Accord!!"

     

    "Honey, I've found the car we should buy."

     

    "I told you, no Mustang GT!"

     

    "No, dear, it's a very practical, sensible car. An Accord."

     

    "An Accord! That's great, those are very sensible cars. But I'm surprised you'd buy something that... boring."

     

    "Just trying to be practical like you, sweetheart." <Turn and wink>
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    If you have a good job and the house is secure. I say the car makes little difference. If you are a young couple and allow yourself to get seduced into the HAH it is a shame. Even worse if you don't own a home. That car may be the down you need to get qualified.

     

    I have a great story about a couple in our church. They were looking for a car a couple years ago. They also wanted to buy a nice home. They passed on the expensive car and bought a nice Elantra hatchback. Plenty of room for the two kids. They were able to qualify for a $200k home in the suburbs. The husband got transferred to TX this last fall. They sold that home for $490,000 moved to TX bought a bigger home cash and had enough left to buy a new Volvo cash.

     

    The moral of this story is get your priorities in order before you buy an expensive car.
  • luckylouluckylou Posts: 308
    My wife and I want to simplified our life as we get older. We have been looking into getting a Honda hybrid but thanks to this discussion and other related topics here at Edmunds , we can make the correct decision. Now we have been leaning toward the EX I4 with leather and NAV. it does very good mileage and is very reliable .The difference in price with the HAH is quite a few thousands . Once the Huppla on the HAH passes the prices will drop and other good changes will be added to this hybrid, hopefully the moonroof and trunk space and perhaps bringing back the station wagon.

     Lou
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    That is what those that purchase are hoping for in mileage

     

    What would you say about those who aren't achieving the promiseland from EPA world with a non-hybrid?

     

    Common sense dictates that a more efficient way of utilizing energy is going to return better results. Now, what does this "better" to? Certainly not firing in the dark, but similar style and conditions. Apples to Apples, not Apples to Fruit cake.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,896
    What would you say about those who aren't achieving the promiseland from EPA world with a non-hybrid?

     

    I would say EPA estimates are going to be closer with the non-hybrid car. Consumer Affairs agrees with that conclusion. Only one HAH has lived up to the EPA estimates for the owners reporting their mileage on green hybrid.

     

    "Zero emission" hybrid cars are all the rage at the moment. Consumers who want to be eco-friendly like them. Time-obsessessed bureaucrats in the D.C. area are snapping them up because zero emission vehicles are allowed to use car-pool lanes. Others are buying them because, with gas prices around $2, they expect to reap huge savings in fuel, which is where the gotcha comes into play. Truth be told, most drivers don't get the 45 miles per gallon they expect in city driving. Reason? The federally-mandated fuel tests don't measure hybrids properly. Many drivers may find themselves getting around 30 mpg in city driving.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Not necessarily. EPA estimates are going to be close regardless of hybrid or non-hybrid orientation of the car if the driving conditions involve similar situations as EPA adopts to estimate the fuel economy.

     

    To understand &#147;how close&#148;, you must realize that 10% of 20 mpg is just 2 mpg, or 18-22 mpg spread. OTOH, 10% at 40 mpg comes to a range of 36-44 mpg. So you&#146;re correct, the former would be &#147;closer&#148; when you look at absolute number, but in percentage, may not be.

     

    As for real world fuel economy in the same world, we haven&#146;t seen enough of comparisons to draw conclusions that anti-hybrid sentiments use. There was one that I remember, yes the one C&D had a few months ago with 4-5 cars driven over a range and varied circumstances. We have discussed it before. Need to do it again?

     

     
    If you want 45 mpg in city driving, get Civic Hybrid. Accord Hybrid isn't supposed to fill-in for every aspect of a car ranging from a micro car to a heavy duty pickup truck. Take it for what it is!

     

    "Zero emission" hybrid cars are all the rage at the moment.

     

    Is it, really? I didn&#146;t know that. If you want zero emissions, go for it. But stereotyping hybrid technology makes no sense to me. If it offers cleaner (relative, not absolute term), greater efficiency and at similar or better performance, I couldn&#146;t complain about it. But then I must not be keeping up with the times.
  • FUEL SAVINGS OF ACCORD HYBRID vs. A 30mpg CAR ($3.00 a gallon)

    100,000 miles = $1200

    200,000 miles = $2400

    300,000 miles = $3600 (engine dies; no battery replacement)

     

    Financially, I still think it makes more sense to buy the cheaper, non-hybrid car for $20-25,000.

      

    troy
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    electrictoy,

     

    the above figures are dependent on what you assume gas prices are!

     

    Unless you are some Great Oracle, nobody knows how high or low future gas prices will be!

     

    The gas saving payoff of a HAH may be worhwhile---depending on what prices of gas you project in the future.
  • Which is why I computed $3.00 a gallon... about 1 dollar higher than the current average.

     

    troy
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Financially, it would make more sense to not own a car and either bike/walk or start using public transportation, if possible.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    my guess is that most people think a hybrid puts out significantly less pollution and gets much better gas mileage than other cars, although it is more expensive than 'ice' only counterparts. the hah doesn't do all of these. it's a unique combination, but most people are willing to take 2 out of 3.

    a v6 accord is cheaper, pollutes slightly more, and has more features.

    a prius is cheaper, pollutes less, gets way better mileage. has some unique features.

    a focus is way cheaper, pollutes slightly more, more features, on par with v6 accord in performance.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    And a Kia Rio is WAY cheaper, pollutes slightly more, and has four tires just like the HAH. (No wait, the Rio has five tires!)

     

    I can see the comparison to the V6 Accord and Prius, but comparing the HAH to a Focus is a big stretch IMO.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    focus 'pzev' rating. c&d 0-60 in focus wagon 7.5 seconds. also has power moonroof, heated seats/mirrors, more. don't forget the 'way cheaper'
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    C'mon, the Focus sedan (since the HAH is a sedan) is a compact, with not nearly the interior room of the Accord--nor its smoothness or quality. If a Focus meets your needs, sure, save $15k and get a Focus (get two!), but it's nowhere close to being in the same league as the HAH.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Which is why I computed $3.00 a gallon... about 1 dollar higher than the current average.

     

    Gas prices for me are in Litres not gallons( I live in Canada).

    Since you added $1.00 per gallon--these estimates can be considered quite good---in other words it is not worth buying HAH for gas savings.

     

    BUT it is worth buying the HAH if you want performance plus gas savings.

     

    The comparison of a HAH and a Focus is an interesting! I think a Mini Cooper S is far more exciting to drive that the HAH and a pretty good gas saver. Also quality/interior finish can be considered better than the Accord.

     

    No wonder the MINI remains so popular after all these years!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Regarding my last post I realize it is unfair to compare a compact with a family sedan!

     

    BUT what I am focusing on is a vehicle as a package that combines performance and gas savings.

     

    I live at midtown Toronto and parking is HELL, so a small fuel efficient rocket sounds great for my needs(unfortunately not so practical for my kids needs--this is why I do not have one)
  • I would have to agree, after reading over all the posts on hybrids on all the forums, that, indeed, no hybrid, least of all the 30K+ HAH, is worth the money.

     

    Perhaps they will be when gas hits $3.00 a gallon.

     

    That doesn't mean that lots of people shouldn't buy the HAH right now, but it's not a car that people who are concerned with money should even look at, for all the reasons stated over and over again on this and other hybrid forums.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    With Focus as opposed to Accord Hybrid, you get what you pay for. I cannot imagine buying a Focus over *any* Accord (much less the Hybrid) unless I were cash strapped.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    BUT it is worth buying the HAH if you want performance plus gas savings.

     

    Yep!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Regarding my last post I realize it is unfair to compare a compact with a family sedan!

     

    Actually, I think the Mini Cooper is a sub-compact, but I accept your rationale.

     

    However, if I were looking for a good blend of performance and gas savings, it wouldn't be the Mini Cooper. My pick would be the Mazda3i, which has good performance (esp. with 5-speed), great handling, room for 4 real adults (5 in a pinch), the highest fuel economy ever measured for an ICE car by CR, and costs thousands less than a Mini Cooper. But it's a compact sedan, not in the same league as the HAH.
  • "Financially, it would make more sense to not own a car and either bike/walk or start using public transportation, if possible."

     

    - The bus/train/bus trip from home-to-work is 3 hours and ~$40 a day.

    - I can't bike/walk 70 miles.

    - And I can't afford the 1 million dollar homes that are within bike/walk distance of my job.

     

    It's easy for you liberals to sit there & say, "trash your car/use other transport" but not everyone has that luxury. (yes a million-dollar home within biking distance is a luxury)

     

    .

     

    FUEL SAVINGS OF ACCORD HYBRID vs. A 30mpg CAR ($3.00 a gallon)

    100,000 miles = $1200

    200,000 miles = $2400

    300,000 miles = $3600 (engine dies; no battery replacement)

      

    IMHO, a $25,000 non-hybrid luxury car that still gets 30 mpg makes more sense financially.

     

    troy
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,837
    Off-topic posts removed. Focus on the HAH only.

     

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  • robertsmxrobertsmx Posts: 5,525
    Can't have it both ways. You're getting what you pay for after all! If 3-hour commute is too much, you're asking for luxury by compromising on financial situation.

     

    Get a 10K car and be done with it, if you still need some luxury. Accord Hybrid is far more car than a $10K car offers. People who can take it, will.
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