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Warranty Claims Administration

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Comments

  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    I will save you the time. A fuel pump is not part of the emmisions warranty. It is covered under a Base care extended service contract.
  • California has way different laws than anyone else. So no your pump is not covered.

    I see lots of people on here unhappy with stuff not being covered under warranty, even after it has expired. Its not like its a surprise that your warranty is up, everyone knows their coverage. Everyone also has the option to buy Extended service warranties.

    Service contracts to me are a no brainer. Its like full coverage auto insurance, you might not always need it but it sure does come in handy when you do
  • pegkpegk Posts: 11
    I have bought extended coverage in the past on Ford vehicles and intended to for this vehicle. Unfortunately I was focused on the 3 year from purchase date and hadn't really paid attention to the mileage. I usually reach both limits around the same time. Therefore I hadn't even started my shopping around on the extended warranty programs available. I planned on doing that in a few months.

    I still say that Ford should be interested in covering this repair considering that the car completely died on me in the middle of a very busy intersection. I would think that safety should be Ford's #1 concern and this was clearly a safety related failure. Maybe I should be contacting a lawyer.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    Maybe I should be contacting a lawyer.

    Ah yes, the new American way. If I don't get the answer I want then I will get a lawyer.

    You will then have 10 times the amount invested in the lawyer then you did the repair with the same result. Use the money you are going to spend on the lawyer and purchase a Service Contract, IMO it would be money better spent and cost you less.

    I am sorry you had troubles with your car but it is a pretty much black and white issue, the car broke down out side of warranty therefore it is your responsibility to pay for a repair.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
    You are unlikely to find a legitimate lawyer who will take this case, especially over a part that you estimate is $250. Manufacturers, in general, are not interested in covering repairs on vehicles out of warranty. Occasionally they will if there seems to be an issue that affects multiple owners, but it doesn't happen a lot (esp. not on non-luxury vehicles).

    If they started doing this, then where does it end? If they should cover failures at "only" 3000 miles out of warranty, why not 5000?

    Any part of the operating system on a vehicle can be considered safety-related. If my windshield wipers go out while I'm driving in the middle of a massive downpour, it's a huge safety issue for me. Sometimes things just break, and that stinks. But it doesn't always mean that the manufacturer should pay for the repair, sorry.

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  • God forbid anyone has to take responsibility for anything. You knew the warranty terms, its out, deal with it. So it broke down in the middle of an intersection, they cant all break down in the driveway.

    I am going to law school as well and i can promise you that you will get no where with that option, but feel free to waste the justice systems time with your frivolous lawsuit because you cant read.
  • pegkpegk Posts: 11
    For those of you who felt it necessary to bash the American legal system, please keep in mind that it is this very system that provides the balance between corporate greed and consumer protection.

    Also if you read my posts closely you’d see that I was and still am interested in an extended warranty package. I have bought extended warranties in the past, but usually wait until I am close to the 3 year mark. The extended warranty on my recent Ford Taurus wagon was especially helpful, as I used it a number of times on various items that failed in the six years that I owned the vehicle. If anyone can offer suggestions on where I can get a such a warranty now even though I’m at 39,000 miles (but well under the 3 year mark), I would really appreciate your comments.

    Please don’t bother responding if you intend to send disparaging remarks like the last several posters. I don’t think this forum was intended for that. I also highly suspect that Ford has several paid representatives (from dealerships, customer service, PR or warranty claims) that monitor and respond to this site. If you intend to help the consumer your comments are welcomed. If you intend to bash them, please don’t bother. I would think that in the interest of customer loyalty you would want to keep your comments positive and helpful.

    Finally for the rest of the story: My problem was not the fuel pump. My mechanic was on vacation (his new assistant that suggested it was the fuel pump also suggested that I wait for his boss to get back from vacation). When he returned yesterday, he found that the real problem was a disconnected fuel inertia switch, for which Ford has a TSB 06-18-12. I would have hoped that the customer service rep I had spoken to would have mentioned this TSB. Unfortunately that rep would not even let me speak to his supervisor. He said that the best he could do was have a supervisor return my call in two days. Well two days have past and still no call. Same response to my call to the dealership where I bought the car: I called to clarify the emissions warranty language and was told that “Finance Dept” (not Service Dept even though I asked twice) could help me. No one was available and I left a message twice, but still no returned phone call. I’m just thankful that the problem is not the fuel pump. The switch problem only cost me $33 (I’m sure the dealer would have charged me a lot more than that.)
  • mitzijmitzij Posts: 612
    Technical bulletins have nothing to do with warranty coverage. A TSB is used as a tool, to help a technician fix something more efficiently. A TSB can be for as small a thing as 'Try this type of double-sided tape instead of that type' for a repair. Customer service reps may not have access to technical bulletins.

    The poster, Joel, on here is a Ford dealership employee. He is not a shill for Ford, rather he gives realistic, reliable information. I am a Chevy dealership employee, a warranty clerk.

    I can't see how a fuel inertia switch could be part of an emissions warranty, but you've got the paperwork. Maybe try a different dealership. I get calls all the time regarding warranty coverage/inservice dates/expiration dates. To get free repairs after the warranty has expired, be nice. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. They don't have to give you a cent.

    As for service contracts-I don't like them. But if you must buy one, try to get a Ford ESP. If they don't sell them after the warranty is expired, don't buy one at all. Put the money you would have spent in a savings account. With any aftermarket one, you run the risk of the company going out of business and taking your money with them. To read my other 5,345 reasons against aftermarket service contracts, view my other postings.
  • pegkpegk Posts: 11
    I'm not suggesting that Ford should cover the $33 I paid for the fuel inertia switch fix. But I'm sure that the customer service rep could have transferred me to someone at Ford that was aware of the TSB. He wouldn't even transfer me to his supervisor (plus still no call-back as promised). And still no call back from the dealer.

    As to TSB being covered under warranty I have to disagree with you. I have a TSB in my possession now (courtesy of my mechanic) for my CD player that skips and has done that since the time I purchased the vehicle. I knew about the TSB on that item from this forum two years ago, but when I mentioned it to the dealer back then, he acted like he didn't believe me and he would have to check for the problem himself and charge me for the repair. I didn't know how to get a copy of that TSB 2 years ago, so I had nothing to present to the dealer that this was a known problem. It looked like I wasn't going to get anywhere with the dealer, so I just lived with problem (bothers the kids more than me, since I'm not a heavy CD user). That TSB says right at the top of it that this problem should be fixed under the original warranty. I can post a pdf link to it if anyone wants it. I was thinking of posting it to the audio topic forum, since I've seen it mentioned there many times.

    I had an aftermarket warranty from AAA on my previous Ford Taurus. I paid a much lower price than the one Ford offered. It served me very well.

    P.S. I am a nice person. I think it's easy for people to read between the lines on these forums and I didn't deserve to be put down for my thoughts. I think I have (and will continue to) share valuable information, just like Joel and you.
  • I looked at the TSB. Ford pays the dealer 30 minutes for labor plus the part. So if you paid $33.00 total parts and labor you got a great deal
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    For those of you who felt it necessary to bash the American legal system, please keep in mind that it is this very system that provides the balance between corporate greed and consumer protection.


    Thats funny.

    It might just work with every one did not feel the need to scream "You will hear from my lawyer" every time things do not go there way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Having worked with clients fighting insurance companies, I kinda wonder where this "balance" might be hiding?

    But that's another topic :cry:

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  • pegkpegk Posts: 11
    Dear Joel (from the Ford dealership), as Mr. Shiftright so correctly pointed out, we need to keep on focus in this forum. You need to contribute information that can help the consumer through the warranty claims process or the reporting of known problems with the vehicles. You're lastest comments have done neither. By the way, can you offer me any suggestions on extended warranty options?
  • Our very large dealership is "self insured" for those grave errors. IOW, we eat it. Things happen. A senior tech fries the PCM while performing a simple recall, even after following all the tech notes provided by the manufacturer. Tool fell and closed a circuit? Who knows. We ate it. The risk you run with trying to run that stuff through warranty is that the manufacturer has seen it all before and is looking for it all the time. Then you are busted for filing fraudulent claims, then then start eyeballing everything you do, then they audit you and take $75K out of your pocket, suddenly that PCM doesn't seem like so much of a loss. I had to explain that to a very stupid service manager once.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    yes, "errors and omissions" insurance I believe it is called.

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  • Well, the reason they sent you to the finance department is this (and you truly have to had worked at a car dealership to understand these politics): Finance is supposed to explain the details of your manufacturers warranty and any extended warranties they may have managed to sell you. They serve as the consumer educator in this capacity. They need to make sure you understand what you are buying before they take your money.

    Unfortunately, this is not the reality in most cases. The finance person is often a well liked individual who couldn't hack it in sales and so was retained as a finance person. Often the reason they didn't make it in sales is that they had either communication deficiencies or failed to learn the product well enough to sell it. And then we are left with a bit of a ding dong in finance.

    In service we get the [non-permissible content removed] end of this dog. We have to tell the customer that no warranty is "bumper to bumper", maintenance is required but not covered and certain high wear items such as brake rotors, belts and pumps have even more limited warranties. As you can imagine we get tired of this constant re-education of the consumer, who we very dearly wish to retain and so have to somehow fix the broken relationship. It is constant. Every single day we have someone who is shocked to find out that this, that, or the other is not covered. So you were referred back to finance because ultimately, that is who failed you.

    This dysfunction, which seems to exist at every dealership, is one of the reasons consumers don't trust dealerships. It appears that there is a big conspiracy to rip you off, but the truth is we are just operating in a state of chaos about half the time, just like any other business. But I will tell you this: The individuals that work in that service department have no real motivation to cheat you. They all make their money on return business and understand that being helpful pays better than being deceitful.

    Developing a good relationship with a shop is more valuable than a fuel pump. Reasonable customers always get better treatment than demanding ones. Free oil changes, no charge for labor to fix this or that, complimentary car wash, these are all things that fall upon gracious customers. We have a gal that always writes a thank you note to the president of the company every time she gets an oil change. You better bet she is getting a free car wash and low labor on repairs. She is a smart woman. Being nice has amazing benefits. So maybe you could take that tack and see if you don't get better results.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    Unfortunately, this is not the reality in most cases. The finance person is often a well liked individual who couldn't hack it in sales and so was retained as a finance person. Often the reason they didn't make it in sales is that they had either communication deficiencies or failed to learn the product well enough to sell it. And then we are left with a bit of a ding dong in finance.

    That is probably with out a doubt the worst piece of erroneous information I have ever seen any one give on any message board on the web.

    So you believe that the Owner puts some chuckle head in to run the 2nd biggest profit producer in the building, plus he wants that same chuckle head to be responsible for making sure the money flows, contracts cash, checks are good, etc etc. Until it gets to to the finance office it is nothing but talk.

    What really happened to the poster is some lazy [non-permissible content removed] service writer tried to pass the buck because he knew the customer was not going to like his response.
  • No gamediva, he is right, for some reason we always have to explain the warranty again. Now it could be the finance managers fault, that is a big part of it im sure, but i do know that they are also trying to sell you an extended warranty, which is why i would think that they WOULD NOT want you to believe that everything is covered.

    Ultimatley though some of the responsibility needs to fall with the consumer, in the simple fact that all they need to do is open the owners manual. really that simple. Im sure no one will like that response because that would require taking some responsibility
  • mitzijmitzij Posts: 612
    Technical service bulletins are not paid for by Warranty. It gives information on how to submit a warranty claim because if the car is still within warranty, it may require a certain code. It does not mean the repair is paid for by the manufacturer forever. It took me awhile to figure that one out myself.
    TSBs are just part of the technician's arsenal when it comes to repairing cars.

    Joel=my favorite chucklehead :P
  • TSB Technical Service Bulletin. Known solution to known issue, written to assist the technician in repairing the vehicle on the first visit. Not every known issue is a safety issue. For instance, window regulators, regardless of manufacturer break all the time. Most manufacturers will not warranty window regulators past the first 36 months. A plethora of tsb's exist for window regulators. Anyway, the technician may read the TSB and decide whether it applies to their specific repair or not. He is not required to follow the offered repair advise although most times they do. You may compare a TSB to a recipe.

    A RECALL is the manufacturer's response to well documented safety issues and design flaws. The technician will get a lengthy bulletin describing the issue and a step by step, detailed description of the exact repair procedure to be performed. The technician may not deviate from this procedure under threat of litigation. You may compare a recall to a legal order.

    Recalls are ALWAYS covered by warranty. TSB's may or may not be for warrantable repairs. It depends on the mileage of the vehicle and the part being replaced. In the first 36 months of the vehicle's life a lot of things are covered. After that, usually only the powertrain (engine, transmission, drive shafts and sometimes the axles). The emissions system warranty is longer and covers the catalytic converter and related items.

    The individual that pointed out that the consumer must read the owner's manual cover to cover deserves some applause. A lot of unnecessary grief would be saved if this simple step of reading the manual was completed by every consumer. Unfortunately, most people are so uninterested in the proper care of their second largest investment to even crack it open to see what kind of gas to use.

    I hope that helps. :D
  • LOL.

    Well, we know what department YOU work in! I don't know how big your dealership is, but our principal probably doensn't even know the finance guy's name.

    In the particular cases that I have in mind, we (the service department) have only sent customers back to finance when we had exhausted our ability, and hours upon hours, to resolve the problem. Lazy had nothing to do with it.

    You should spend a week in service. Really.
  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    I have been around dealerships long enough to know what headaches each department has. I would not write service, it does not pay enough for the BS you have to put up with. the only job in service I would do is be a dispatcher. They sit in there hole and never get bothered.

    Any service writer who claims the F&I guy knows more about a warranty then they do should be ashamed of themselves.
  • Yes, out of the ordinary. When you purchase your vehicle you agree to the terms of your warranty on your contract--which is that they will repair anything that is defective-not refund you the amount it would cost to fix it. If they did refund you the amount--it only cost them about $150 to repaint a panel--really not worth the money to go after. However, you can ask for them to provide you with alternative transportation. They may or may not give it to you as the basic warranty does not cover such a service
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
    While you're always welcome to respond to any post at any time, I'm thinking that since he posted his question in October 2006, he's probably sorted out the details by now :)

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  • mkmc1mkmc1 Posts: 7
    Wife's 07 BMW 530 Wagon - 40K miles - well under warranty. Elec system went out two days ago, towed to dealer (STL area) yesterday. Rep calls and says "this is going to take awhile and be really expensive - we found water in the trunk(?!) and we think you left the gate open - warranty may not cover....". Really? She only uses the auto close feature and the gate has NEVER been left open for any extended time.

    UPDATE: service rep says water has collected in spare tire well and fried out circuit board(s) located there. He also says BMW warranty people have been in taking pix and if they cannot find a leak or bad seal during a water test (results of which unavailable till next week(?!), then it's our dime.

    What are they trying to pull? Any feedback on what response I should give them? We're in limbo right now....thanks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Well what I think is happening here is the classic battle between dealer and factory, which is often adversarial. The dealer doesn't want to repair the car, submit a warranty, and have the claim denied; so he's probably calling in the factory field rep to document the claim prior to the dealer fixing it.

    If they don't find a leak, you could have a fight on your hands, so you might want to start thinking of alternative strategies.

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  • mkmc1mkmc1 Posts: 7
    Alternate strategies: Going up ladder to BMW or their warranty divison? Small claims court (ugghh)? Does BMW have a consumer relations department that might handle? This is NOT promising - and here, we were just discussing an extended warranty with the dealer a few weeks ago - if this is what we can expect - no way.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,287
    Well your "case" is an interesting one and if I were you I'd do the water tests myself as well, and video-cam the whole process. (I mean, if they decide to play hardball).

    Yes you can contact BMW customer relations and ask them to review the case, should it be declined. I think it would make a great court case myself but that's a real PITA.

    Water could intrude through the tailgate seal, through the TAIL LIGHT gaskets, or through body seams underneath or in the wheel wells.

    One way to test would be to line the area in question with newspaper, and then run through a car wash (including the type of wash that cleans the underside) and see what happens.

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  • newroc_vtnewroc_vt Posts: 1
    Hello All

    I have a 4 star car warranty which i would want to cancel as i am going to put the car up for sale.Does any one know what the dealer would be chraging as comission for the cancellation once he receives the cheque from the warranty company.
  • infinitimninfinitimn Posts: 137
    So please share the outcome of your dispute.
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