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Future Crown Vic and Grand Marquis

a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Posts: 518
edited March 15 in Ford
This came up as a digression in the 2006 Fusion thread the other day, and I thought it warranted its own thread. There are a lot of rumors swirling about the future of the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis, but very little solid info. To recap some of the rumors:

 

-They will be redesigned on the D3 (Five Hundred) platform

-They will be redesigned on the Australian Falcon platform

-They will be redesigned on the Explorer platform

-They will be restyled, but stay with the current Panther platform indefinitely

 

I ran across something interesting today:

http://www.pfmmag.com/NovDec04/Julyaugust2005policevehices.htm

This is from something called "Police Fleet Manager", and it claims that the Grand Marquis will be redesigned for 2006 and the Crown Vic will be redone for 2009. I would think that these people know what they are talking about, but who knows.

 

So, what would people like to see done with these cars? Any more information or rumors? Personally, I'd like to see them stay RWD body-on-frame, but I'm not too confident that's going to happen.

 

-Andrew L
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Comments

  • I've heard the rumor about a 2008 redesign based on the Aus Falcon, but not the Explorer... I'd like to think that given the popularity of Dodge/Chrysler RWD vehicles of late, ford would be smarter than to switch the CV/GM to a FWD D3 platform. This is especially true when you consider that there would be overlap between a Five Hundred and a D3 based Crown Victoria.

     

    I'd hate to see the Panther platform retired; it's a proven design, and with an updated body/interior for the CV/GM, could last at least another decade. If they do decide to retire the platform, I could see them using the Explorer platform since it most closely matches the Panther.
  • flasvtflasvt Posts: 64
    What would take to update the Panther platform from up to date standards?

    What would take to stretch the Lincoln LS platform to work as the foundation for the next CV/GM/TC?

    Could Ford use one of its European platforms? Maybe a reworked version of the XJ architecture?
  • I’m not sure if it’s a question of bringing the Panther platform up to date; this is the last RWD, body-on-frame, rigid rear suspension platform available on a sedan. Almost all sedans (and even most SUV’s) are unit-body constructed with independent suspensions and FWD. The technology may be several decades old, but the Panther platform has been highly refined over the years (specifically with the 2003 MY), and has been proven to be extremely durable (which is why you see so many Panther police cars and taxis).

     

    I have a ’92 Grand Marquis with 130K+ miles that I bought a couple of years ago as a stopgap until I could afford a new vehicle. After having the car checked out, I found that everything is in good working order after 13 years of continuous use, and in fact, I could even expect another 70K or so miles out of it. My girlfriends 2000 Neon by contrast, needs $3500 in engine, suspension, and transmission work over the next few months, and it only has 73K miles on it… Sometimes newer isn’t better.

     

    Granted, it’s not the car for everyone, but there are lots of us who would like to be able to buy a large, comfortable RWD car that we could squeeze 15 years out of it if we had to… I think for Ford to retire the platform just because it’s old would be a disservice. As long as it can still turn a profit, why mess with what works?

     

    The Lincoln LS platform was borrowed from Europe I believe; I’m not sure it could be stretched & widened to make a good replacement for the Panther… Does anyone else know about the LS, and how hard it would be to modify?
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,670
    for probably 15-20 years ago (I had an 83 Grand Marquis) they could continue this platform even with low to medium volume...since it is stereotypically an "older person's car" (except to those of us young folks smart enough to know a good car when we see one), there will be for some years enough old folks to keep buying these cars...I would like to see some upgrades (I know, they have upgraded many suspension and safety features already) that I have mentioned on the regular CV/GM site...firmer seats with better leather...put side marker lights on the CV like the GM, as it is a safety feature for night vision not just a style feature...bring back the rear amber signal lights that they had a few years ago on the CV and took away in 2004 (safety, again)...maybe upgrade the sound system for something like Explorer Limited or Mustang has, something a little more modern that what is in there now, or at least a sound system UPGRADE, for those of us who want more than most old folks want...add door and truck ajar lights, as even the Taurus has this...since many Fords are going to 5 speed auto trannies, throw one in the CV/GM...UPGRADE the engine to 275-300 HP, like the Mustang engine or the Marauder engine...right now only the GM has a roof console with Homelink, add it to CV, as my current one has extra lights and a compass...it seems a lot of platic with an on-off button just to turn on a compass...they should look at what Dodge offers, a trip computer, Homelink and a compass and outside temp all in the roof console...get the outisde temp out of the heater control where it is so annoying to push the button just for outside temp, place it above like Dodge where you can see compass direction and outisde temp on one screen that you leave on all the time...maybe put a digital trip odometer like in Taurus, but keep the dials and gauges analog...even tho it has an auto trans, add a tachometer, since they have one in Taurus and it has an auto trans...that's my "short list" for now, more to be added later...
  • Take a look at this article. It has 2 major points about the future of the CV/GM:

     

    "In 2006, a $100-million US investment will see changes to the cars' grilles, bumpers and front ends."

     

    "In 2008, another $200 million US will be spent on a more extensive redesign."

     

    Given that rumors have long claimed the GM would get a facelift for MY2006, I suspect these are both MYs rather than CYs. $200 million is not enough to launch an all-new model, or even a substantially new model on an existing platform. So I take this article to mean that the cars will stay on Panther through at least MY2009 (since they wouldn't redesign the car and only make it for one year).

     

    -Andrew L
  • It appears Ford is going to stick with the Panther for a few more years, which for anyone who has actually owned one, knows is good news.

    I'd like to see the 3 valve 4.6 liter make it's way into the car very soon, and another gear or two in the tranny (though the 5 speed auto doesn't nearly have the reputation as the 4 speed being currently used).

    I think Ford has decided not to keep their full size sedan in the $20k-$30k out the door price range. The platform has been heavily modified structurally and mechanically, now they just need to update the exterior and interior.
  • I'll admit that I have a special place in my heart (as well as garage, as I age) for Crown Vics. My grandmother had an early 80's one (they were called LTD Crown Victoria's or something) and she refused to sell it because "new cars are all tin cans! If one of those big buses came along and hit me in a Hondai or whatever you call them, I'd die!" Ah, bless her.

    Well, the Panther works, and I really hope that Ford keeps it. It's a proven design, and tons of people have bought one (or more) of them. Ford could easily keep Panther around for another 7-10 years if they kept refining it. For their sake, because a lot of customers would switch to an Avalon or 300 (Lucerne???) if something happened to the Crown Vic. And, considering Ford's less than stellar redesign work, (IMO) I don't think that it would work out. When I first heard of the 500, I thought that Ford meant to erase the Crown Vic! But they don't, so i'm all good. No FWD, though. Crown Vic's have been RWD since they were LTD's, and that shouldn't change. BTW, I also liked the Marauder, and a super-refined Marauder engine would be perfect for the CV/GM. Venerable cars. Not in the sense of a Mustang or Corvette, but both have their spot in automotive history.

    OK, I'm done.
    ---Chris
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,324
    Delete the side bulge which makes it look like a pregnant weasel and replace the "Ford" engine with the 300 hp 4.6. After all, you don't see a Chevy powered Caddie. Giving the TC more running ability may just prevent it from being caught by an oversexed Weasel.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    I am tempted to ask when and why you have observed pregnant weasels, but some things it is just best not to know....
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,324
    were part of our college lab experiments as were frogs, rabbits, cats, mice, rats, & other rodents. Now you know and don't you feel better for it? Non science majors usually just take Chem 101 or Bact 210 and get by with a BA.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Thanks. I do feel better now. And I feel better knowing the Panther cars are going to be around a bit longer, even though I do love my Ford Five Hundred with AWD. Wonder if the Panther will ever get AWD?
  • cgn49cgn49 Posts: 4
    the 500 looks to be a nice car; the only rap on it is that they say it's underpowered. do you feel that thats an accurate statement?
  • mystiquemystique Posts: 24
    Does anybody have any pics of the redone 06' Crown Vic or Grand Marquis. I am particularly interested in the LX Sport.
  • Ford should seriously consider building an SVT Crown Victoria with at least 300hp. If they don't Ford will lose the large performance sedan market to the new Cadillac STS, Dodge Charger, Chrylser 300C and the new Chevrolet Impala. If the Australians can get the really cool Ford Falcon, why can't we get a Ford sport sedan? Ford should also incorporate more technology, such as a nav system in the new model. If they can do this, the Crown Victoria could become Ford's most desirbale model. At the same time all this happening, I also feel the Ford Five Hundred needs a new engine, preferably one with at least 250hp.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Posts: 2,287
    Been on a 2000 mile trip + with the Five Hundred.

    Anyway, the car could definitely use a bit more power. Then again, I averaged over 30 mpg on the trip, with AWD nonetheless....

    So, even I am conflicted! I love the CVT. Feel free to join us over at the Five Hundred forum here...
  • samnoesamnoe Posts: 731
    "I also feel the Ford Five Hundred needs a new engine, preferably one with at least 250 hp..."

    Yeah, Ford also fells the same. And that's why the new Duratec 3.5L engine will be added to the 500 next year.

    I also think that the CV needs a boost to compete with the others on the market. The need to improve the powertrain, the interior, and a few other minor stuff.
  • bigunit67bigunit67 Posts: 62
    In the regular CV/GM chat room, one of the posters makes a point about Dodge introducing a Charger Police Car model for MY 2006, and that this little fact will force Ford to upgrade the CV, especially in the area of engine power.

    I did a little digging, and does indeed appear the Charger will be offered with an option of the 3.5 or 5.7 V-8 for 2006 - to police fleets. I don't endorse anyone's website, but you can follow the following link to get the data I did: link title

    Personal rant/opinion/burning question section:

    1. I would think Ford could offer the 3-valve 4.6 as an option while retaining the existing 2-valve for who don't want/crave extra power w/o burning up too many development dollars.

    2. Also, if anyone out there knows, could Ford put a version of the cylinder-deactiviation technology that Diamler is using on the 300c to work in their V-8 cars? Don't take away from what is there, but add something useful and relevant to the package to make people take another look at it.

    3. And to go full-blown crazy, how possible would it be to incorporate an electric motor with the CV/GM and have a hybrid version available? It just makes sense to me to take your oldest car platform, one whose costs have long since be recouped, and make changes that would likely be well received in today's marketplace. With Buick going through a total makeover, and the Bonneville being axed, and a whole new 280 HP Avalon to contend with, do something that makes the public take another look at your cars. You can't just "build it and have them come".

    Comments, questions? Threats? :)
  • euphoniumeuphonium Great Northwest, West of the Cascades.Posts: 3,324
    Ford should continue with the 220 hp 4.6, Mercury should continue with the 239 engine, but only Lincoln Town Car should have the 300 hp engine available for why should the price of a Lincoln only get you a Ford powerplant? Jaguar's six speed tranny should be with only the Town Car, leaving the Ford/Mercury with the common 4 speed AOD. When you pay much more, you should receive much more. Mercury buyers are not interested in performance as the demise of the Marauder proves. Also, bring back the Towing Package enabling the sedans to drag 3,000 lb trailers. One shouldn't have to buy a pickup or SUV for the infrequent towing of boats.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,670
    like this...I thought the only thing proven by the demise of the Marauder was that no one would actually pay an additional $5-7,000 for 60 extra HP and a cheap trio of 3 gauges sitting in front of the floor shifter...while we all seem to want the extra HP, since it probably cost Ford less than $100 in parts to do so, no one got suckered into paying mega thousands more for it...add an add'l grand, you have takers...add an add'l five to seven grand and it will rust on the dealers lot until the arrival of forever...
  • bigunit67bigunit67 Posts: 62
    The TC, GM, and CV have been around a while and dont have a lot of development costs to recoup. An article I saw last year in the USA today stated that the ave profit, as of the end of 2003, on each car was approximately 10,000 dollars. Knowing that, what ford attempted to do with the sticker of a Marauder was nothing but an attempt to milk more profit out of one product line to cover holes in the rest of it's lineup...NOT offer a competitive car at a realistic price.

    Adding that to what Marsha7 says, taking an already high profit-margin car and attempting to milk several thousand more $$$ out of it is what turned the public off, not the concept of "more power". If you look around at the new 280 HP Avalon, the 265 HP Maxima, and many others, the public is addicted to ponies again, despite high gas prices.

    When you see the sticker for a Chrysler 300c and then compare it (last model year) to the Marauder, Ford has a hard time justifying what they offered vs what others produced from scratch. I do agree with you that they should raise the content value of the TC. It should not be the price it is with a 240 HP engine powering it. However, I would wager most TC owners wouldn't be swayed by what a Ford or Mercury can offer since there is more to a town car than just what's under the hood (extra size, status, amenities, etc).

    Whether we're 100% right or not, maybe SOMEONE at Ford is reading this and realizes what they're throwing out there is behind the times and they'll catch up soon.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Posts: 572
    As long as the redesign doesn't mess with the basics, which in the case of my 94 Grand Marquis, a car that feels solid even after 11 years and 115,000 miles.

    I'd settle for the same power, but I would like a 6 speed auto for better fuel efficiency. If they could add a couple of MPG to both the city and highway EPA rating, I'd be happy.

    I'd even settle for the same exterior if they would update the interior, especially the horrible cup holders in the newer ones. The one in my 94 falls short, but it feels Swiss-made compared to the one I saw in a 2005 at the auto show. Also, go back the the better leather, thicker carpeting, and some interior chrome they had before the decontenting began.
  • I agree with jsylvester, the basic car is great. I, too, have a 94 GM. Mine has almost 200,000 miles. It still looks and runs great, albeit with a few electrical issues that don't affect the performance. I'm about ready to scope out a new car and although I haven't yet looked closely at new GMs, I think I will get one, unless they have been seriously "decontented". I like mine so well I hate to have to go and reinvent the wheel, so to speak. I hope I am not disappointed when I do go look at new ones. If they have cheapened the leather, carpets, etc., maybe I will be. It doesn't appear as though Ford will be improving those items soon. Too bad.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    The only problems I have with the Crown Victoria / Grand Marquis / Town Car are the completely outdated interior (sliding around on the flat seats is no fun), and the solid rear axle. You just can not have a smooth ride with a solid rear axle. Ford apparently did not have a competitive push before the 300 & Charger came along.

    As for the engine, the 2006 Explorer has upgraded to the 292 HP / 300 Ft.-Lbs. three valve 4.6 V8 and the six speed automatic, and all of the other vehicles which used the two valve 4.6 apparently will also upgrade to that engine and transmission for improved power and better mileage.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Posts: 572
    You are correct, there are some compromises with the solid rear axle, but there are advantages. It is simple and durable, and usually requires only simple shock absorbers as any future maintenance.

    On the interior, I'm guessing part of the update will be to make better form-fitting seats for the bucket seat option. Myself personally, I prefer the bench seat, but you do slide around on the leather.
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    They should drop the Crown Victoria name and replace it with the Falcon when the Australian Ford Falcon comes here in 2008.

    check it out here.

    Australian Fords
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    Here is the Australian Ford FPV GT-P (FPV stands for Ford Performance Vehicles).

    You can get it without the stripes.

    image
  • basilsbasils Posts: 25
    Sorry, but the Falcon just looks way too dull for me. Reminds me of a cross between a '95 Mustang and a new Pontiac GTO. No real eye catching lines or distinct qualities about it. As for the Crown Vic....why change it so drastically? It's an original! Great ride...one of the best, very clean and simple lines, very reliable, smooth power delivery, rear wheel drive BENEFITS (yes, benefits), classy yet slightly retro in design, and not every "joe" on the block owns one. True, cops and taxis have them, but they aren't the same in appearance. The only thing that I would want them to do in 2006-2008, is maybe use a 3v 4.6, slightly upgrade the interior, offer all versions the same wide color choices, and maybe modernize the front fascia....but not too much, and leave the rear alone.
    Whatever they do I hope it looks great because I plan on getting a 2006 model....unless they butcher the design or turn it into a Falcon!
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    The Falcon has way more performance than the Crown Vic.
  • jsylvesterjsylvester Posts: 572
    I prefer the Panther over the Austrailian Falcon, but I'm more into comfort and durability than blazing performance.

    As stated above, the Panther performs it's role very well; all it needs is some updating, especially in the interior and the drivetrain. My only concern is if Ford monkey's with the drivetrain, it will lose it's bulletproof reliability.
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