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Toyota Prius Software Problems
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I ordered my Prius in 2000 -delivered in March 2001. Over the years, I've encountered several problems including continuous replacement of tires, windshield crack, decrease in mileage...you name it. I've never experienced any problems with any other vehicle I've ever owned. I've managed to correct those but here's my latest:
I was leaving a store parking lot and attempting to start the car-it wouldn't start. All of my warning lights came on (exclamation point/yellow triangle, car battery, check engine lights, brakes, etc...) After four tries, it finally started. I proceeded out of the parking lot down a small grade hill and it seemed as if I was "coasting" into traffic...it was driving very differently. I managed to coast into a gas station and it stalled. I sat for sometime and tried again. The car started after a few more tries and I proceede but then I stalled at a red light. Finally, I managed to get to my destination but upon leaving (to take it to the dealership) I had an accident...in the driveway. I was doing a 3 point turn...hit the acceleration pedal to move forward (no more than 5 mph) and when I hit the brakes (to back up) it didn't stop. (The car seemed to continue acceleration and didn't stop until I hit into the garage wall as if the brakes weren't working.) I know I hit the brakes as hard as I could. Thankfully, no one was injured and the car is now at the dealership for repairs. My insurance estimates approx $3100 damage to my vehicle and more for repairs to the house/garage/lost items and they put me in a rental until repairs are complete.
However, the dealership is saying that my vehicle was "low on fuel" and shows no signs of any other problems. I know that couldn't be the problem as I had two bars of gas left when the accident happened. I've read other posts with similar problems but I haven't read a solution to it yet. I plan to get a second opinion at another dealership/different tech but does anyone have any other suggestions? This is not the first time this has happened (all the warning lights coming on for no apparent reason) but this is the first time it's caused me to have an accident. Any insight? What is happening?
Is there even a remote chance that you may have accidently pressed the accelerator instead of the gas pedal? That is a very common cause of such low speed collisions in all cars. It's called operator error. Most such operators are surprised to find that they may have been in that situation.
I spoke to the service tech just a minute ago, and he's stumped at the data/codes that came up. There were two engine computer codes (p3191 and p3101) and two hybrid computer codes (204 with information code 1 and 205 with information code 0.) Allthough he did his best to explain what that means, I don't think he knew any more than I did. He said the last two hybrid codes contradicted themselves. He also said there was an ABS brake code but didn't have that info handy. (He had turned the paperwork in to mgt and was telling me off the top of his head.) He thinks it was ABS C1259. I'm going to pick up a copy of that paper work this afternoon and have a tech at Atlanta Toyota to look at it. Thankfully, he didn't reset anything yet. Does this make sense to you? Have you seen this before?
I'll inform y'all of the outcome of the situation...in case this happens to someone else in the future. I'm so new to this site and I'll keep reading...Very Helpful!
Thanks to all for posting your experiences, here and with the NHTSB.
Railroadjames(Good Luck)
Maria
Railroadjames
Maria
Huh??
jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 6400 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.7MPG
They said the computer wasn't bad - and they replaced it? Do they talk to each other?
jprice SoCal '05 Silver, #1, 6600 miles, [non-permissible content removed]. mileage 46.7MPG
1. Fuel Pump due to insufficient fuel pressure. Fix is to replace the fuel tank. The pump is integral to the tank.
2. Circuit Opening Relay. This appears to be the relay that allows the gas engine to start. Toyota charges about $50 for this part but you can get it at a local parts store for under $20. Installation is trivial.
3. Engine Computer. This is only required if the computer is of a certain age...my 2002 computer was newer...but your 2001 may be within the range that it would be a candidate for replacement.
Tell the dealer to look at TSB EG011-03.
None of these explain your brake failure, however.
Investigation of Prius Stalling
You wrote "Looks like the government investigation of the stalling problem is continuing". Perhaps you didn't read the rubber-stamped June 8, 2005 date at the top of linked document. It is two-month-old news.
I am also curious as to why there have not been any reports of European Prius having stalling issues.
to pull over and ...well you guess the rest.
to pull over and ...well you guess the rest."
It might be wise to check the facts before you make a statement like that. By "facts" I mean the NHTSB website, where the complaints are filed. A single report doesn't make a trend, but still, it is there.
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/complain/complaintsearch.cfm
I found the following for 2005 Prius. There were a few complaints under "fuel systems" for the 2004 model, but they didn't really appear to be bladder related.
I especially like the second problem; it could explain why there have been reports of Prius running out of gas on the freeway unexpectedly.
" Make: TOYOTA
Model: PRIUS
Type: PASSENGER CAR
Year: 2005
Complaint Number: 10109731
Summary:
THE VEHICLE'S GAS NEEDLE INDICATED THAT THE TANK WAS HALF FULL. WHEN THE CONSUMER ATTEMPTED TO REFUEL THE VEHICLE, THE PUMP SHUT OFF AFTER ONLY DEPOSITING 1.1 GALLONS OF FUEL INTO THE TANK. *NM THE CONSUMER STOPPED A SECOND TIME TO TRY TO FILL THE FUEL TANK AND INSERTED THE PUMP INTO THE TANK. AFTER THE ATTEMPT TO FILL THE TANK, THE CONSUMER REMOVED THE PUMP FROM THE TANK AND FUEL SHOT OUT OF THE TANK ALL OVER THE CONSUMER. THE FUEL GAUGE STILL SHOWED HALF OF A TANK. THE CONSUMER WAS TOLD THAT THE PART NEEDED WOULD BE A COUPLE WEEKS AND WAS FORCED TO DRIVE THE VEHICLE. AFTER DRIVING THE VEHICLE THE CONSUMER NOTICED THAT FUEL GAUGE STILL IN THE SAME PLACE. THE DEALER FIXED THE PROBLEM STATING THAT WATER SOMEHOW GOT INTO THE FUEL CUT OFF VALVE AND CAUSED THE VEHICLE NOT TO ACCEPT FUEL. IN DRIVING HOME THE CONSUMER STOPPED AGAIN TO GET FUEL AND THE SAME PROBLEM OCCURRED. *TC *JB"
Make: TOYOTA
Model: PRIUS
Type: PASSENGER CAR
Year: 2005
Complaint Number: 10127609
Summary:
THE PRIUS SHUT DOWN, STOPPED USING GASOLINE POWER, WHILE I WAS IN THE PASSING LANE AND TRAVELING 70 MILES PER HOUR IN MODERATE TRAFFIC ON INTERSTATE 40 IN NASHVILLE, TN. THE RED TRIANGLE, CHECK ENGINE, VSC AND A FEW OTHER WARNING SIGNALS ILLUMINATED. I MANAGED TO AVOID BEING REAR-ENDED , PULLED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD USING BATTERY POWER, SHUT THE BATTERY POWER OFF, AND CONSULTED THE OWNER'S MANUAL. APPROXIMATELY 10-15 MINUTES PRIOR, THE ADD FUEL LIGHT ILLUMINATED AND THE FUEL INDICATOR DISPLAYED A SINGLE BAR. HAVING DRIVEN THE VEHICLE FOR THE PAST 8300 MILES, MY WIFE INFORMED ME THAT WE HAD ABOUT 2 GALLONS OF GAS, AND COULD EASILY TRAVEL ANOTHER FIFTY MILES. THE TEMPERATURE WAS NEAR 90 DEGREES. I STARTED THE VEHICLE AND CHOSE TO DRIVE IT OFF THE INTERSTATE. WE TRAVELED 2.5 MILES AND COASTED TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AS THE BATTERY DEPLETED. I MANAGED TO SLOWLY DRIVE THE VEHICLE TO A GAS STATION AND REFUELED. THE FUEL TANK COULD ONLY ACCOMMODATE 8.1 GALLONS OF FUEL; IT HOLDS 11.7. ONCE REFUELED, THE WARNING SIGNALS DISAPPEARED AFTER 30 SECONDS, AND WE DROVE HOME. MY WIFE TOOK THE CAR TO THE DEALER, JOE HEITZ TOYOTA IN CLARKSVILLE, TN, THE NEXT DAY FOR AN EVALUATION. THE MECHANIC SAID THAT THE COMPUTER INDICATED THAT THE VEHICLE RAN OUT OF FUEL. SINCE THERE OBVIOUSLY WAS FUEL IN THE TANK, I PRESSED THE SERVICE MANAGER FOR ANSWERS. BY THE END OF THE DAY AND AFTER CONSULTING WITH PRIUS TECHNICAL FOLKS IN CALIFORNIA, THE SERVICE MANAGER SAID THAT THE FUEL BLADDER MAY HAVE COLLAPSED OVER THE SENDING MODULE THEREBY SIGNALING THE CAR'S COMPUTER THAT IT WAS OUT OF GAS, WHICH CAUSED IT TO SHUT DOWN. HE SAID TOYOTA IS LOOKING INTO THE PROBLEM AND PROVIDED A LAME SOLUTION; REFUEL THE VEHICLE BEFORE IT GETS TOO LOW. THIS IS AN UNACCEPTABLE ANSWER AND I IMPLORE THE NHTSA TO INVESTIGATE THIS POTENTIALLY DEADLY ANOMALY. IT IS ONLY A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE SOMEONE IS IN A FATAL ACCIDENT BECAUSE THE VEHICLE SHUTS DOWN WHILE TRAVELING AT INTERSTATE SPEEDS.
This is the site used to report potential problems to the federal government; it is not just a "public web site". The statement had been made that there was no truth to the reports of problems with the fuel bladder.
The incident reports indicate that the Toyota representative was theorizing about the fuel bladder causing the problem. I consider that corporate acknowledgement.
However, as I said, one incident doesn't make a trend, unless those reports of "out of gas" were actually incidents of something else. But that is certainly unproven at this stage.
Yes, I don't know if it is people just hitting the SUBMIT button too many times, or thinking they can get more attention if they post multiple times, but it is annoying to see.
I don't think it is the ECU (hardware), it is the software code that goes into the ECU and the various other computers scattered around the hybrids.
RE: Lexus and HH. Those two models use V6 engines and would have different software controlling them. I would think that it has a lot of common code with the Prius, but I don't know that for a fact. But the use of HSD with a relatively powerful V6 on the otto cycle is quite different from the use of HSD with a small I4 on an atkinson cycle. Of course, Toyota has lots of experience with otto cycle V6 engine control software, so maybe they based their code on the Highlander and RX rather than the Prius, and went from there.
If I read this right, Toyota has tabulated 416 complaints of consumers who experienced the 'alleged defect' and 66 field reports that may relate to the 'alleged defect'. That's a whole lot more than what was reported in the news.
It looks there are legal related claims too. It says Toyota was still collecting that data when this letter was written.
Office Of Defects Investigation Letter Jul 22, 2005
The worse news its it seems they still don't know what the problem is.
1. This discussion is about the Software Problems only - not fuel bladder. If you wish to discuss that, please go to the Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions discussion.
2. Personal attacks aren't needed.
Thanks
The fuel bladder came up because it was listed in the one incident on the NHTSB as the possible cause of a Prius highway shutdown, which is the prime symptom of our "software problems" discussion. So I really do think it is warranted here, at least for a short while. It could be masking software problems.
I would ask that some deliverers of info be a little more accurate in statements referring to the number of Prius's that have mysteriously shut down. When you consider the number of these cars out there it's a very low percentage as I see it. Yes there are some problems but by no means are they damning of the overall quality of these hybrid cars. TOO many satisfied hybrid owners to disregard. So be a bit fair and try not to be so obviously a "NAY SAYER" of sorts. Thanks!
Railroadjames(Hybrids Here To Stay)
Want World Peace....Use Your Turn-Signal!
It is a question of what triggers the shutdown. If it is a software error, the same error (until fixed) lurks in all Prius, waiting for an exceptional set of circumstances to appear. The fact that only a few Prius have exhibited what may be a software error doesn't mean they don't all have it; it also doesn't mean that it isn't some obscure hardware problem. But we are fairly certain that the 2004 had a software error. We have been hearing of 2005 models with what appear to be software errors as well, but it is difficult to tell.
I have consistently suggested to people that this potential problem not be a "deal breaker" on the Prius. It is too small for my needs, but seems to be otherwise a good vehicle. I'm sure Toyota will eventually get all the software bugs out (if any are there) . Here's hoping they don't introduce more while getting out any old ones...
Railroadjames( Hybrids "R" Smart)
Did you read the write-up from the NHTSB. The Toyota service rep thought that the fuel bladder had collapsed, causing fuel starvation. There was still gas in the car. How would you manage to "just not run out of gas" in that case?