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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    This is not the transmission (automatic) you are looking for.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,934
    "use the torque, Luke."

    ps - the VW cabrio M6 TDI looks awesome, what a great value...
    (especially after years with a 2006 newbeetle TDI DSG... )

    pps - a shoutout to ateixyoda & obi-wan-andres3
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    " “The Dark Side of the Force (DSF---that's the one just before DSG :P ) is the pathway to many abilities some consider to be… Unnatural.”

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Manual transmissions are immune to those mind control games.

    Of course that means manuals = Jabba the Hut. :D
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,766
    edited February 2013
    Use the power of the stick, Luke.

    I find your lack of shifting......disturbing.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Nah, it's written even in VW the DSG will make you about .2 faster.

    With launch control it might be even more and for sure more consistent victories if your drag racing a lot.

    I Just extrapolate that if it's .2 faster 0-60, it probably is a little faster 20-80 , 40-60, 40-70, 0-100, and any other measurement of speed. It just shifts so fast there is no way to beat it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    And on fast rewind, you can get through a movie in a matter of minutes! :P

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  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    I trust CR most and while they have not tested identical VW's with stick and auto. They tested a Stick Golf and a dsg Jetta (Jetta only weighed 60 lbs more - including the heavier transmission). both with diesel engines. Golf was Very good overall for acceleration and Jetta was only good. Numbers below. 45-65 isn't really close. The DSG may shift fast, but it also needs time to decide what to do - a manual acts when you want it to.

    Very Good Good
    0 to 30 mph, sec.
    3.2 3.6

    0 to 60 mph, sec.
    9.4 9.5

    45 to 65 mph, sec.
    5.2 6.0

    On top of being faster the stick got 27/49 city highway to the 25/ 45 for the automatic. This is with DSG - regular automatics are worse.

    They have done this comparison for many cars and the stick wins in acceleration and mpg every time. VW is the only DSG they tested with both.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    I wonder and would be suspicious that some of the recent Jetta decontenting has affected the performance of the DSG to the point it's not even a "real" DSG anymore.

    Afterall, when a car is "cheapened" out, it is rare that it is only visual things that are cheapened.

    Also, in DSG manual mode you can always immediately select the next lower gear without any delay, although a double down shift down would take .2 seconds longer. If you just floor it in auto mode I think it's capable of shifting down more than 1 gear all at once. I'll have to run more tests.

    A TDI is not meant to be performance oriented, so DSG may not pair well with it. DSG is for a performance motor, like the 2.0T.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    pathway to many abilities some consider to be… Unnatural.

    Unnatural maybe...but oh so pleasurable. :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    well perhaps to those who have swooned under the haze of gadgetry, yes, it is pleasurable, but who among the 3-pedal crowd would choose this path of perfumed indolence? Not us, we're rugged individualists! :P

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,934
    well, I certainly think you and I should be exalted leaders of this particular sect. Just based on our names.

    I would not even feel awkward about it now, since I have a stick in the driveway again!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    edited February 2013
    Oh great the old fogies are gonna create a cult around an antiquated piece of technology, heh. ;)

    Just be careful. Worshiping the Almighty Stick has an awful lot of interesting connotations, many of which are not family friendly, and some of which are just plain hilarious. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    One could say the same of guns, cigars and golf for that matter---. Why not target-shoot with a gun that has radar-guided bullets?---you don't even have to aim, and you will enjoy the full illusion of competence as a marksman. ;)

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  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,934
    put that on a golf club and make it work, and you will be able to buy Bill Gates.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's) and 2007 Volvo S40 (mine)

  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Yeah, it also might actually make golf popular. ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,958
    edited February 2013
    "...Just be careful. Worshiping the Almighty Stick has an awful lot of interesting connotations, many of which are not family friendly, and some of which are just plain hilarious. "...

    I really think it is the OTHER way around. Most of the worship, more importantly the monies have gone into "automatic"(transmissions) improvements, that so far have really not overcome the third pedals performance parameters, i.e. parasitic forces, mpg , range of mpg, durability, cost, to name a few, other than the automatics are ...automatic. At that, there has been, is and probably will remain a considerable premium, albeit for 47 years that I have been driving.

    I say this from the perspective of owning automatics; 3,4,6,7,8 speeds, (3- in a 1950's car) 4,5,6 speeds manuals and a six speed DSG.

    Further, I do really like the 8 speed A/T, 6 speed manual Tremec and 6 speed DSG. In the case of the 8 speed A/T, it is standard with no other transmission offering. In that sense, the extra cost (app 1,200) is built into the cost structure making it opaque. The 4,5,6, speed manuals almost all have had the A/T(@ extra cost option) The DSG was an 1,100 extra cost option over a 6 speed M/T standard.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    gimmestdtranny - in response to your Ducati suggestion - I've looked at the small and medium (696, 796) Monster, and I like them a lot. They seem to be a perfect size and weight, and the ergonomics are fine for a rider who isn't 5'6" 130. The price kind of repels me - Monster 796 ABS shoots past 10K.. I was thinking/hoping now that I have a new car with a payment, I would be distracted from bikes. But, I still feel "want" when I see some. In my mind, I would be most likely to buy a Ninja 300/new Honda CB500 series (if they ever finally arrive) or a Monster. I am just being held back by unwillingness to spend, parking, and fear of local traffic. I don't want something too old, as I hate carbs and I want ABS. Heck, I have even thought about picking up a scooter just for fun, but those are mostly CVTs, so not appropriate here :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    Not all scooters are CVT, but all of them are dangerous vis a vis a motorcycle.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    The dangerous part makes me hesitant - not just my own lack of expertise, but the local "drivers", especially in this diverse area. I will say a bike would be the only manual vehicle I would consider - still don't really want it in a car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,258
    Well the wheels on a scooter are too small and couple that with a sharp steering rake to the front forks and you go right over the bars on an avoidance maneuver.

    The other drivers are a problem with ANY two wheeler.

    And if you're 60+ on a two wheeler, you can double the bad odds by a factor of 2.

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    edited March 2013
    There are larger wheel scooters out there. I am more afraid of sliding on wet ground than going over the bars, and am most afraid of being slammed into by one of our beloved ad necessary fresh off the boat types driving a Lexus LX, or a texting teen.

    Older bikers do seem to be claimed around here as much as the 19 year olds on literbikes.

    On the bike note, I got an email last night from a local dealer claiming the Honda 500s will be in next month.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2013
    Older bikers do seem to be claimed around here as much as the 19 year olds on literbikes.

    Correct - half of motor cycle deaths are 1st year riders. Get past the first year and odds drop by half. ;)
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,766
    ...now that I have a new car with a payment...

    Did I miss what you are driving? Anyway, congratulations on a new ride!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    A few weeks ago I picked up a new ride. See if you can tell it apart from the old timer :shades:

    image

    Just a lease though - the 13s are being given away in advance of the upcoming facelift model, and I got a heck of a deal. I'd never have financed something so pricey. Never had a new car before, so, like the kids say, you only live once.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,766
    Fin - congratulations! Which model is that - I'm not a MB expert - an E class?

    It really is nice to have a new car, although I've never leased before.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    Yes, E350 Bluetec. So I can say it is a practical car - diesel with a vinyl (tex) interior :shades:

    Usually I have kind of sneered at new cars, but I have to say the technology is fun, and having something under warranty is a little peace of mind. I also got a fair price for the old car, and I sold it before I might have become too attached. As long as my income is stable, I might get into leasing if prices are subsidized like this (I am certain I am paying less than real world depreciation). It'll just eliminate any big vacation for a year or two :shades:
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,766
    It'll just eliminate any big vacation for a year or two

    Road trip! :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,952
    For sure, once we get better weather. I look forward to approaching the 40mpg the car is capable of.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,766
    For sure, once we get better weather. I look forward to approaching the 40mpg the car is capable of.

    Make sure not to accelerate to autobahn speeds, or your mileage will suffer. :shades:
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