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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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  • volkovvolkov Posts: 1,302
    edited May 2013
    Brain fart...just noticed I wrote Mivec, meant Mitsu Delica.
    AND just to hammer home the annoying reality, the latest version comes with CVT as the only transmission option.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127

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  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    edited June 2013
    le sigh. If I drive mine like I stole it, no problems. Otherwise, I hate the clutch on that car.... it's just too touchy. There's no "feel" to it.... just disengaged to *Bam!* engaged. If it had a diesel engine, that'd probably be a nice combo. :P
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,428
    Just noticed that a Honda dealer near me has 5 Accords in stock with the stick shift. Nice to see that they are out there.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    I seem to have a similar issue with my Toyota Matrix, I still stall it from time to time if I try to take off gently and smoothly, I am not sure it engages in the same spot all the time even ( I think I have read other comments about this too). It works properly with no slippage, but you have to give it more throttle to make sure it doesn't stall when you start off.
  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,391
    Yeah, I think it's strange. Our 2007 Outback was the same way, so I think it's just a "feature" of the clutch. I haven't had that problem on any other manual I've driven. Some are more "feelable" than others, but even low-torque setups like my Fiesta are real easy to get in touch with. I just haven't ever found that mild-mannered equilibrium with the Forester.

    I can sure persuade it to move with ferocity, though. It impresses me how quickly that car can move (which annoys my wife to no end, given that she drives it in "little old lady mode").
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    "I just bought a new 2014 Mustang V6 Coupe and it's running fine except at toll booths it won't shift into 1st or 2nd." (link)

    Only happens at toll booths, home of all those EZ transponders - maybe some tin foil lining the hood and dashboard would fix it?

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  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    edited June 2013
    possibly try a double-clutch to get it into 1st after stopping:

    move gear shift to neutral.
    fully release clutch pedal.
    depress again the clutch pedal
    move gear shift to 1st
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,681
    here in 100° Alamogordo. I found a '67 VW Bug in white here west of town at a small, private seller of automobiles on Highway 70 that leads to Las Cruces, NM. It is a 4-speed stick and its body is straight, newer tire and wheels that just make the car look great.

    He wants $3,000 for it and from my research, if its mechanically sound, that is a very fair price for it. Here we go!

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    Yee Haw, how's the AC in it?

    /snicker :)

    Seriously, how is the heat? Looks like we aren't going to get out there this summer as hoped.

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,681
    edited June 2013
    it was 102° today and hot. Yeah, I'll bet the white '67 VW Bug has no valid A/C in it at all. And that is a potential problem or worrysome thing about the car that would have to be addressed. Or not addressed at all and just lived with.

    The last car I owned that didn't have A/C was the 1999 Kia Sephia. But that was when we lived in Burlington, WA, which, as you know steve, rarely exceeds 90° in the hottest part of summer, so, there ya go. My intensive pursuit for my own chunk of automotive history pants on in to the hot, south-central New Mexico summer.

    Santa Fe, NM, is an interesting place, with all its adobe architectural businesses and homes. It forces you in to staring at it for a while, all the different home and business designs that have been implemented over there. Truly a step back in NM history and American SW desert-dwelling existence, and full of tourist-trap sales experiences around every corner. I don't like it enough to pine for a house or rental there for retirement, because prices have rose so high for housing in Santa Fe that it's virtually untouchable for someone who isn't rich to live there as a retiree. There's a way to do it if you are very patient and plan your hunt accordingly, though, I'm pretty sure. I'm just not so sure I care enough about it to embark on that.

    Now down in our neck of the woods Tularosa, about 13 miles north of Alamogordo, looks a lot more do-able and affordable as a retirement destination. Lots of trees all over the town for shade and housing is very affordable. It's on Highway 70 about 35 miles west of Ruidoso. Highway 54/70 both run north in to Tularosa and 54 shoots off to the west towards Carricozo and the Trinity Site, Valley of Fire and San Antonio, NM. Interesting and laid-back area that interests me a lot.

    What's kind of appealing to Santa Fe, NM, though, is that the city of Santa Fe is also very laid back and the people are nice, because they love living in Santa Fe. They see Santa Fe's future are being very, very viable and they love it and want to make the place a better place ta be. So it has an appealing lure to it, sort of like the lure of Seattle's Space Needle, Science Center, Monorail and Pike Place Market. And ferry boats. People there know it's a pretty special place and so are excited to be a part of it and make it even better. Those are the kinds of places you want to live in and be a part of, eh? :blush:

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    edited June 2013
    When I first visited Santa Fe in my 20s, I thought it was brown and dusty and I didn't see the attraction. Now I really like it. The concerts on the "square" are great and we love all the weavings and rugs in the shops and galleries.

    The first time I was out there was in a 4 speed manual transmission.

    Yep, in a Bug. Could have been a '67 or '68 too but never drove a white one. :)

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  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,594
    If a '67 VW did have aftermarket a/c it would consume about 20 of the available 50HP.

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,516
    edited June 2013
    I think the last fuel-injected Super Beetles could have AC, but even then, it's too much for that little engine---too much load.

    Maybe if you installed a big bore 1800 engine built to a high standard, it could handle a small compressor.

    You have to be realistic about an old VW flat 4. It's a cheap little engine that does not tolerate being overworked.

    Think of it as more of an old motorcycle engine from a Harley or Triumph than as a modern car engine.

    If you "lug" it in 4th gear, you're gonna blow it up.

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,681
    edited June 2013
    in my 1967 VW Bug without A/C. What's weird is I don't think that'll be a problem. Or what I might be saying is I want the car so bad that I can just live with an "ailment" like that just fine. Yeah, taking 20 horses away from a 50-horse motor is too much. But, this one in town is a 1967 and I am now narrowing my search down to only wanting a 1967 VW Bug. :shades:

    I may post a picture of one later that looks like the one in town I'm looking to buy. I don't think it's really any kind of mystery to any of you all what the car looks like, huh? :D

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • slorenzenslorenzen Posts: 275
    edited June 2013
    The '67 is indeed an iconic bug.

    HOWEVER, in that heat, I really would recommend looking into either a '71 or later motor, or at least a "doghouse" oil cooler and sheet metal around the motor.

    The doghouse oil cooler is designed to send the heated air away from cylinder #3, which as you may have heard, was a real weak spot for motors before the '71 change(burned the valves for #3).

    Another nice thing about the '71 or later, they came with dual port cylinder heads, which improved breathing immensely.

    Enjoy that '67!

    :P
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,681
    The '67 is indeed an iconic bug.

    HOWEVER, in that heat, I really would recommend looking into either a '71 or later motor, or at least a "doghouse" oil cooler and sheet metal around the motor.

    The doghouse oil cooler is designed to send the heated air away from cylinder #3, which as you may have heard, was a real weak spot for motors before the '71 change(burned the valves for #3).

    Another nice thing about the '71 or later, they came with dual port cylinder heads, which improved breathing immensely.

    Enjoy that '67!


    I will take that into consideration and look for that to be done or possibly it will already have been done on the one I buy. All of this is good learning to get prepared for a possible ownership experience.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    "We are not ignorant, Porsche is not ignorant," says Andreas Preuninger, the engineer in charge of the company's GT series cars, with the air of a man who wishes to draw the current subject of conversation to a close.

    We've been discussing the decision not to offer a manual transmission in the new 2014 Porsche 911 GT3. It's a topic of conversation that has consumed most of his waking hours for the past six months and, to be fair to the man, not one on which he can offer much more.

    For reasons of cost, engineering and marketing, Porsche has chosen to build the newest GT3 (the car that perhaps connects the company with hard-core drivers better than any other in its model range) with only two pedals."

    2014 Porsche 911 GT3 First Drive

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  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,563
    "We are not ignorant, Porsche is not ignorant,"

    Reminds me of something I say at work now and then:

    "It's not that I don't know, it's that I don't care" :shades:

    It's amusing that, as far as I can tell, the sometimes whiny demand for manuals in some cars comes from the US - the most automatic place in the world.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,751
    edited July 2013
    I think that Porsche guy knows both the political, tea leaves and the realities. Most Porsche owners (given the choice) actually BUY NON manuals (70% plus). If 70% does not meet the definition of majority, I do not know what does. Now if Porsche got commitments for 100% M/T's, they then would be utterly stupid (ignorant in their own words) to offer anything BUT M/T's.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    For reasons of cost, marketing, and engineering? Please, it's cost cost and cost. And laziness. And this from the company with the highest profit margins in the industry.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,876
    Plus, it's a $200K+ car... Even if the cost was $10K extra for the manual, those who wanted it would pay...

    So... I agree... arrogance or ignorance..

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,516
    the GT3 is a FLAGSHIP car for Porsche---it epitomizes the dream of the Porsche enthusiast. It may shift faster, be a techo-marvel and all that, but without 3 pedals, there is something very important that is lost.

    Sort of like building a bi-plane with auto-pilot. Isnt' the whole idea the total challenge of mastering it?

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  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,428
    Your average hard core enthusiast does not buy $200,000 cars. This is a car designed for 60 year old investment bankers who used to be enthusiasts - nothing more.

    Enthusiasts will buy a stick shift Cayman, which is almost affordable.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,876
    Your average hard core enthusiast anyone

    No one buying a $200K car is average.... but, they still care about stick-shifts..

    60 yr old investment bankers are buying 911 Turbos with Tiptronics... (imo)

    GT-3 buyers are more likely to track their cars... and, they care about stick-shifts... I think it's short-sighted to not offer it..

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    Found you a bug, Iluv:

    craigslist

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  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,681
    nice find. I and Mrsiluvmysephia1 are disagreeing on the need (or strong "want") for a 1967 VW Bug. As I forewarned earlier. So it's probably not going ta happen and it just turns in to another one of my 2007 Suzuki SX-4 freak outs of automobile desire, and something that never comes to be. Unless? :)

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    edited July 2013
    last time i drove on a track i found i strongly preferred the automatic transmission. keeping both hands on the wheel is critical, and outweighs any benefit/enjoyment manually shifting on a track.

    holding wheel with one hand, shifting manually, forces me to drive slower, else one wrong twitch of the wheel and the caddy CTS-V would be augered into a barrier or sideways off the roadcourse track.

    so i understand the porsche GT3 designer dude's choice to make it automatic only.

    For a street car, i prefer a manual... But on the track, anywhere near "the limit", the GM automatic transmission was *perfect*. The automatic never did anything i didn't want, never did anything to upset the balance. Turns out i barely got to 75% of the limit of what the CTS-V could do - the pro driver demonstrated 100% very nicely during a "hot lap".
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,127
    Unfortunately the stick won't be available in the "more fun" engine at first.

    2014 Mazda 3S Grand Touring First Drive

    image

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  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    edited August 2013
    How many more ways will they find to "improve" the manual transmission? Throttle-by-wire usually sucks, electric steering ALWAYS sucks, now they are planning on introducing clutch-by-wire:

    Robert Bosch's eClutch system could help put manual transmissions back on car buyers' shopping lists.

    The eClutch eliminates two things drivers dislike most about cars with stick shifts: stalling and frequent use of the clutch pedal in stop-and-go traffic.

    The eClutch can also improve fuel economy between 5 and 10 percent, Bosch engineers say.

    During a recent press event here, reporters test drove an Audi A3 hatchback that Bosch had fitted with an eClutch. The car uses a standard clutch pedal and shifter and looks like any other vehicle with a manual transmission.


    http://www.autonews.com/article/20130806/OEM06/308079999/bosch-clutch-by-wire-pr- - events-stalling-boosts-mpg?cciid=email-autonews-mbs&r=7000G0458689C5Q#axzz2bA5Hw- - 2oN

    If the clutch is an endangered species, I will take mine manually operated and connected to the clutch plate by a hydraulic connection until the third pedal is well and truly deceased.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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