Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





The Future Of The Manual Transmission

1496497498500502

Comments

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,403

    [I think manual transmissions will soon be relegated to only certain types of cars---economy subcompacts, pickup trucks, "sport" hatches and "sport" compact sedans, and diesel turbo cars.](I think manual transmissions will soon be relegated to only certain types of cars---economy subcompacts, pickup trucks, "sport" hatches and "sport" compact sedans, and diesel turbo cars. "I think manual transmissions will soon be relegated to only certain types of cars---economy subcompacts, pickup trucks, "sport" hatches and "sport" compact sedans, and diesel turbo cars.")

    Economy cars? Maybe but DSGs might be more fuel efficient. Turbo diesel cars put out so much low end torque that a manual is pointless. I drove a Jetta TDI with a DSG and found manually shifting it a waste of time, the car felt as if needed only two foward gear,low and high.

    As for pick-up trucks, unless compact gas pickups make a comeback, I don't think a lot of P'up buyers are interested in shifting for themselves

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    edited February 3

    We have a DSG (6 speed) on a 09 Jetta TDI. It has over 68,000 miles. For lots of reasons, VWA extended the drive train warranty to 10 years/100,000 miles. For a host of reasons, while I would have still preferred the M/T (6 speed), the other 3 drivers would not have taken kindly to it. So they do "like" it. The other side to this is the M/T would NOT have had a 10 year/100,000 miles warranty (extension). BE that as it may, since I do NOT dislike the DSG, even as it took some time and miles to "like" it, the real world numbers are more like 3.5 happy drivers.

    There is no doubt in my mind the 6 speed M/T is capable with way less effort of better MPG. This is not to mention that it would be a minimum of 1,100 dollars cheaper. I also got the normal dealer DSG oil and filter change service ($400.) done by a TDI guru.) But without the B portion( with the 6 speed manual) I have not been able to do the A/B test under like conditions. The swag portion would be a minimum of 2/3 mpg BETTER with a M/T. So given 39 to 42 mpg in a normal commute (DSG) a reasonable expectation would be 41 to 45 mpg. We do have a 5 speed manual TDI so it is not like this is a total swag.

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,623

    It's still possible to order a BMW 320i with a 6 speed manual for $32,750. Wonder if anyone has actually gotten one that way....?

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602

    @benjaminh said: It's still possible to order a BMW 320i with a 6 speed manual for $32,750. Wonder if anyone has actually gotten one that way....?

    Probably a couple in circulation, but I doubt you will find any sitting on the lot. So if you want one, better plan ahead and order one.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407

    @MrShift@Edmunds said:

    I think manual transmissions will soon be relegated to only certain types of cars---economy subcompacts, pickup trucks, "sport" hatches and "sport" compact sedans, and diesel turbo cars.

    Don't forget that the Miata fits none of those categories and has an extremely high take rate for the manual. Quick google shows that 63 percent of softtops were manual (only 41 percent of hardtops) in 2011. I know on the used market you pay about $1,500 more for a stick on a first gen (NA) Miata. Nobody wants the automatic.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681

    Not sure you'll be seeing the MX-5 around much longer, as U.S. sales are dropping year to year, from a high of 16,897 in 2006, to a 2013 figure of 5780. At this rate of decline, it'll be about zero in 2017.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602

    Isn't there a new design coming soon? That could give a rebound for a bit.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 14,493
    edited February 5

    They are almost "custom" made for roads like CA Highway One. However, getting there in one will beat one to death. Indeed if one has the time and inclination (most do not) from SoCal to WA Highway One, any part, to all of it is/are really the iconic highway for the Miata (others also).

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681

    I think the MX-5 has an image problem (undeserved, going by sales records) and I don't know how to solve it---maybe Mazda does. Jalopnik website thinks Miata owners fall into 3 categories 1) young guys going to, or coming from, an autocross, and/or completely stoned 2) old guys wishing they were like #1 above and 3) completely confused people who aren't sure why they bought it.

    Jalopnik insists it's not a woman's car anymore, and sales figures do back that up, but the public perception seems to deter that macho 'sports car crowd" who buys a car strictly for performance.

    I DUNNO --I've always respected the car immensely, and never had the slightest urge to own one.

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: Not sure you'll be seeing the MX-5 around much longer, as U.S. sales are dropping year to year, from a high of 16,897 in 2006, to a 2013 figure of 5780. At this rate of decline, it'll be about zero in 2017.

    Actually Mazda has confirmed that the next generation MX-5 (ND) will debut at next years Chicago auto show. Miata will share platform with the Alfa Spider. They have sold over 900,000 Miatas world wide since intro, so it is not such a niche vehicle. One problem with Miata is EPA 28 mpg highway (though it does much better) - worse than a Mustang or Camaro etc. - they will fix that in a large way with the next generation. Miata is not much of a primary car more of a weekend vehicle and people don't buy those so much in a recession, but we are hopefully rebounding.

    I have always admired them, but not had a real desire to buy one until I test drove the '95 my boss was selling ( only 26,000 miles). By far the most fun vehicle I have ever driven. It is basically a copy of the Lotus Elan - except it doesn't break down. 4 Wheel double wishbone suspension, RWD with a Torsen LSD, Longitudinal engine with a ton of space to work on it, 50/50 weight distribution (battery in the trunk). You just feel like you are driving an old British sports car. Even the exhaust note is right.

    Anyway I am now a huge fan, and they should be around for a while selling mostly sticks.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,015
    edited February 5

    @dudleyr said: It is basically a copy of the Lotus Elan - except it doesn't break down

    I always considered them to be a modern MG - except they don't break down.

  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,407

    @Stever@Edmunds said: I always considered them to be a modern MG - except they don't break down.

    Actually I did too, until I read about Mazda's intentions and saw an Elan (on the left above).

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681

    I would call 5700 units a year borderline "niche".

  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,403

    @MrShift@Edmunds said: I think the MX-5 has an image problem (undeserved, going by sales records) and I don't know how to solve it---maybe Mazda does. Jalopnik website thinks Miata owners fall into 3 categories 1) young guys going to, or coming from, an autocross, and/or completely stoned 2) old guys wishing they were like #1 above and 3) completely confused people who aren't sure why they bought it.

    Jalopnik insists it's not a woman's car anymore, and sales figures do back that up, but the public perception seems to deter that macho 'sports car crowd" who buys a car strictly for performance.

    I DUNNO --I've always respected the car immensely, and never had the slightest urge to own one.

    Sales of all convertibles are declining for a number of reasons. We are discussing them in The Topless One-Percent.forums.edmunds.com/discussion/17148/general/x/the-topless-one-percent#latesthttp://

    As for the idea that the Miata is a "Chick Car", that's pretty much undeserved. I don't think I've sen more than a dozen women driving them since they came out. The typical Miata driver seems to be a middle-aged guy, probably reliving their youthful acquaintance with MGs and Triumphs. I hardly ever see young guys driving them, unless they're beat-up rust traps. It seems like todays youth focuses more on decibels coming out of their speakers than on HP coming out of the tailpipes.

    A successor to the current Mx-5 is being co-developed with one other than Alfa-Romeo. I've come close to buying a Miata but a combination of Italian style and Japanese mechanics could seal the deal.

  • MrShift@EdmundsMrShift@Edmunds Posts: 43,681

    Early on, there was indeed a rush of female buyers, and that's where the image came from. It was like all the old folks who bought PT Cruisers and Scion xBs---not the demographic Chrysler or Toyota was expecting.

    The Miata could use a bit more "authority" out the tailpipe and some tweeks to the Disney image.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,937
    edited February 6

    That's it. I remember the early Miata days, and a lot of them seemed to be spotted in automatic form with a woman behind the wheel. That with the cute face (which would become much worse in the new century) didn't work to give it a masculine image.

    Funny thing, I know a woman who had a manual Miata, but she's probably in the "what did I do" category. She didn't lower the top nearly often enough, commuted in it a lot, eventually it got hit and totaled. It was replaced with a CVT Versa - so fun wasn't her concern.

  • Stever@EdmundsStever@Edmunds YooperlandPosts: 39,015
    edited February 6

    1997 Mazda Miata: Still

    Still what?

    (Still want one).

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669

    Is it true? Subaru is dropping the 6-speed manual from the Legacy line? There goes another one. :-(

    And I suppose that means the Outback will lose the manual option as well.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • xwesxxwesx Fairbanks, AlaskaPosts: 8,273

    Quite true. Not really surprised, I guess, except that it is Subaru doing it. These aren't driver's cars any more and they haven't made any pretense of such since the 2010 GT.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 13,602

    Take rate probably super low at this point. Especially in the sedan.

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

Sign In or Register to comment.