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Bob Lutz - Is he making the grade?

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Comments

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Can you agree that almost every vehicle made is "badge engineered" by your definition?

    And I did forget about the full size trucks-GMC/Chevrolet. This is the area where I think GM could do so much better. Make them look significantly different.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Answer is they are selling like mad to real customers
    all are going to sales-shortest turnaround time at GM and well below industry average even after 1 year
    they are niche product/halo vehicles
    Yes, it was the first for both Pontiac and Saturn of new exciting products to come
    Yes it gained Miata sales and blew them away
    What about the other products?
    quality is there
    no supply problems and did not stall out of the gate.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Of course it is the same GM symbol. Has not changed since forever. And I was also pissed they were putting in the emblem and still not sure what it has done for GM.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,776
    Like your ideas there Rocky. ;)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    As you know there is no such thing as "free maintenance". the buyer pays for it. However the dealers would love it since they have a garunteed income, the only problem is the money comes from GM. And with the bumper to bumper warranty the dealer would see little profit from the customers, just out of GM's pocket. GM may do this but since there are no other companies doing this (is BMW the only one?) there is little pressure to do so.

    The above would probably add $500 to the price of a new car.

    Extending BtoB another year or two is also something they could do but again would add another $500 to the MSRP.

    And the powertrain warranty for another 5 years would probably add another $500 to the MSRP.

    All the numbers above are estimates but I could see an additional $1500 added to the price of the car. Wow, that is a lot of money and if you are a normal buyer of a new car and only keep for 4-5 years (80% of buyers sell before 5 years) a bunch of cost I will never use. Makes the GM product very uncompetitive.

    Yes they may get a few sales due to the appearance of GM standing strongly behind their product but a whole bunch more will walk because of non competitive pricing.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I like the lil' Emblem on the side. What is so wrong with it ? I don't get it. Every one knows it's a GM, vehicle for god sakes. Do you want them to pretend it's not ?

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Thanks.... :)

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    62'

    I respect your opinion but dude it put money back in your pocket and not just a few hundred dollars. A warranty like Hyundai, that is transferrable with "free maintainence" would sky rocket residuals for leases making them more affordable and if a customer buys and trades early he/she won't lose their shirt on selling it out right. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. The customer pre-pays for the warranty not GM, as they can pass on the cost to the customer. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I just find that one a little bit crazy. :confuse:

    Rocky
  • bigo08bigo08 Posts: 102
    what i mean is that i dont mind having the GM emblem...i actually want it on every GM car.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I also do too. I'd even like to have it stamped on the seat belt buckles again but not in that hot metal that would burn your hand if the sun hit it for hours. :surprise:

    Rocky
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "I'd even like to have it stamped on the seat belt buckles again but not in that hot metal that would burn your hand if the sun hit it for hours."

    Really? You mean you don't already have GM branded into your skin? :)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    A warranty like Hyundai, that is transferrable with "free maintainence" would sky rocket residuals for leases making them more affordable and if a customer buys and trades early he/she won't lose their shirt on selling it out right.

    Rocky

    P.S. The customer pre-pays for the warranty not GM, as they can pass on the cost to the customer.


    If true every one would offer. My whole point was that passing on the costs to the buyer raises the price and puts you higher than the competition and therefore loss in sales.

    But lets stop now!!! Talk about Lutz!!
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Pretty much. Again '62, I mostly deal with the BIW in my profession, maybe you just dealt with the interiors, colors and such while you were at GM. I deal with the entire platform, drivetrain, pick-up points, the nuts/bolts and manufacturing. That's what is so great about my job; I not only get to design the parts, I build them too. And the tools and that build the parts. Comes in handy when I R/R components on my own and friends vehicles. So really, in my eyes, I see them as all the same.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Selling like mad where - certainly not in my neck of the woods, must be in yours.
    that's good they are getting in/out the door that fast
    Agree, thought I stated that
    No, not the new exciting products to come line. That may be able to be said about Saturn, but what the heck was/is so exciting about the G5?
    Really? Blew Miata away, hmmmmm, interesting?! Personally I'd still rather have the MX5.
    Again, I ask that of you? The cars, light trucks, the bread & butter vehicles. C'mon you know what I meant. I was then and now am being serious, no jokes.
    Initial is there I agree, but what about long term, which is what I'm most concerned with
    I know, which is good
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    My previous life worked pretty much every where on the vehicles and I sat in a lot of meetings and watched and learned what others were doing.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Sky/Solstice still have almost the shortest turn around time at the dealers and still outsell the MX5. Most seem to want the GM ones. They are a niche product like the MX5 and will not be everywhere.

    Nothing really exciting about the G5 but it is selling very well. The G6 is a nice vehicle and is selling decently. Not a world class interior but a great looker. the G8 will be nice. Ask the Austrailian guys.

    Saturn products? Aura car of the year. Outlook a wonder ful vehicle. the new Astra whatever from europe is a great vehicle at its price point. Sky is great. Saturn has a great lineup now.
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    the Saturn lineup has improved, great is stretching it considering they still have the Ion, Vue and Relay on their lots. Also remember that they once sold over 200k S-series, now they sell over 200k vehicles total and they have 4-5 cars.

    It's going to take some time for people to forget the L-series, Ion and Relay and return to the Saturn lots. I'm not convinced the Outlook will enjoy the success GM expects. Very nice vehicle but are people ready to spend $29k for a glorified Saturn minivan when they still have visions of the Relay. I don't know. Subaru ran into this same problem as they elevated their prices. They are struggling right now.

    Saturn still needs to change people's perception of the company. Years of neglect can't be replaced by a couple of good cars. More advertising will help.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Hopefully when you were learning you learned what not to do ;)

    But in all serious, I do think that GM is improving; I don't really see anything earth-shattering, but the cars are getting better. The only problem is that competitive line keeps moving and until they have consistent product that advances the line, instead of just "close but not quite", they will still be in a reactive mode.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Good point dt,

    This just echoes a great deal of GM's problems. People have long memories of "failures" and won't return just because there are new cars that are promoted as better. It can take years just to persuade someone to take another look at Saturn, let only any GM product; even longer to get them to actually buy one. Especially if their replacement was/is superior in many areas.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Did you see the GM logo on the 09' Camaro concepts belt buckles ?

    Rocky
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    No, i didn't. I did see it at the chicago autoshow, and thought it was a good looking car, but we couldn't sit inside.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well they are their. Saw it in Motor Trend on the Convertible ;)

    Rocky
  • Not to down play Chevrolet's "all things for all people" role at GM, Chevy will get more than it's share of much improved new product. But it will SATURN & CADILLAC that will return product credibility to GM and what remains of the domestic car business.

    Sad to say, PONTIAC may have passed it's point of relevance as a motor division and what ever product gaps might remain would easily be filled By Saturn and Chevy. Lutz's one great failure may have been his not recognizing that fact. The G6 did not fit the pontiac mold and Pontiac did'nt need a GTO, they needed a TRANS AM. if the G8 fails, Pontiac might follow OLDSMOBILE. I hope not. Perhaps the G8 and other RWD, high performance models can save Pontiac, we'll see.

    The new CTS shows that cadillac's products are mellowing and maturing nicely. The new Opel influnced Saturn product are some of the most exciting and credible GM products in many a year. If you hav not driven that Saturn AURA XR, you are in for a shock and a real treat. I think it is the best mids-size car you can buy in the American market, period.

    Then there is BUICK. Buick's newest products are really nice cars. Smooth riding, quiet, well made, solid, secure and I think, very good looking in a conservative manner. I have no ideas what to do with Buick but I belive they deserve attention to more clearly identify their place in the sun.

    All in all, I believe Bob lutz deserves kudos for what he has wrought at GM and he should continue to serve where he is.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I hope Lutz, on the kappa refresh's will tighten up the suspension to miata MX-5 specs.....

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    I hope he does not. Better handling, yes. but not the harsh ride.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Then there is BUICK. Buick's newest products are really nice cars. Smooth riding, quiet, well made, solid, secure and I think, very good looking in a conservative manner. I have no ideas what to do with Buick but I belive they deserve attention to more clearly identify their place in the sun."

    I just don't know if Buick can stay alive in the US I mean alot of Buicks future will be told will on how the Enclave sells. NOw, I know GM has 6,000 pre-orders for the Enclave but how will the Enclave sell in the long run once supply meets demand of this vehicle? See the trouble I have with Buick is are they gonna only 3 sell models(Enclave, LaCrosee, and Lucrene) and is that gonna be it or does Gm have more product/vehicles coming out for Buick after the Enclave? If GM is only gonna have 3 models for Buick to sell than Buick is gonna have a tough hill to climb(sales wise)to be a player in the US.

    "All in all, I believe Bob lutz deserves kudos for what he has wrought at GM and he should continue to serve where he is."

    I agree.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Well I agree. Just would like to see some more interior and suspension refinement next go around. ;)

    Rocky
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Posts: 6,048
    Buick will become more of a lower volume niche player. They are able to do this profitably by combining at the GMC/Pontiac/Buick dealership.
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