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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si



  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "So, because Sport Compact car says so, it is so? I dont think so."

    Aren't you the same guy who was pointing out that MT and Edmunds preferred the Si over the GTI?

    I guess published reviews ONLY have merit if they pick the Si, is that it?

    I can't wait to see your reaction to a MT or Edmunds comparo of the MS3 to the Si..... :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I can't wait to see your reaction to a MT or Edmunds comparo of the MS3 to the Si

    You're assuming that there will be a reaction. I forsee some hiding quietly in a corner of these forums coming up real soon. ;)
  • Please, don't even try and compare a base MS3 to an SI. There is no comparison. 0-60 for SI 6.3 (MT), 1/4 mile for SI (MT) 14.9 Slalom speed 68.5 (Edmunds). I doubt that the vaunted Mazdaspeed 3 will beat those numbers by much, if at all.
  • Get a FREE Price QuoteFind a Local Car Dealer
    2006 Honda Civic SI 2006 Volkswagen GTI
    Drivetrain layout Front engine, FWD Front engine, FWD
    Engine type I-4 alum block/head Turbocharged I-4 iron block/alum head
    Valvetrain DOHC 4 valves/cyl DOHC 4 valves/cyl
    Displacement 121.9 cu in / 1998 cc 121.0 cu in / 1984 cc
    Compression ratio 11.0:1 10.3:1
    Power (SAE NET) 197 hp @ 7800 rpm 200 hp @ 5100 rpm
    Torque (SAE NET) 139 lb-ft @ 6200 rpm 207 lb-ft @ 1800 rpm
    Redline 8000 rpm 6500 rpm
    Weight to power 14.6 lb/hp 15.7 lb/hp
    Transmission 6-speed manual 6-speed manual
    Axle/final-drive ratios 4.77:1 / 3.14:1 3.09:1 / 2.87:1
    Suspension, front; rear Struts, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, anti-roll bar Struts, coil springs, anti-roll bar; multilink, coil springs, anti-roll bar
    Steering ratio 13.6:1 15.6:1
    Turns lock-to-lock 2.7 3.0
    Brakes, f;r 11.8-in vented disc; 10.2-in disc; ABS 12.3-in vented disc; 11.3-in disc, ABS
    Wheels 17 x 7.0, cast aluminum 17 x 7.0, cast aluminum
    Tires 215/45R17 91W, Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2 225/45R17 91H, Continental ContiProContact
    Wheelbase 104.3 in 101.5 in
    Track, f/r 59.0 / 60.1 in 60.4 / 59.7 in
    Length x width x height 174.8 x 68.9 x 53.5 in 165.8 x 69.3 x 58.4 in
    Turning circle 35.6 ft 35.8 ft
    Curb weight 2871 lb 3143 lb
    Weight dist, f/r 61 / 39 % 62 / 38 %
    Seating capacity 5 5
    Headroom, f/r 37.8 / 34.7 in 39.3 / 38.5 in
    Legroom, f/r 42.6 / 30.3 in 41.2 / 35.3 in
    Shoulder room, f/r 53.9 / 52.1 in 54.7 / 54.6 in
    Cargo volume 11.5 cu ft 15.1 cu ft
    Test Data
    Acceleration to mph
    0-30 2.4 sec 2.2 sec
    0-40 3.5 3.4
    0-50 4.8 4.6
    0-60 6.3 6.3
    0-70 8.2 8
    0-80 10.5 10.4
    0-90 13.4 13.2
    0-100 16.6 16.4
    Passing, 45-65 mph 3.4 3.1
    Quarter Mile 14.9 sec @ 94.7 mph 14.7 sec @ 94.8 mph
    Braking, 60-0 mph 117 ft 119 ft
    Lateral acceleration 0.89 g avg 0.83 g avg
    MT figure eight 26.8 sec @ 0.64 g avg 27.2 sec @ 0.63 g avg
    Top-gear revs @ 60 mph 2700 rpm 2400 rpm
    Consumer Info
    Base price $20,540 $22,620
    Price as tested $22,790 $24,175
    Stability/traction control No/no Yes/yes
    Airbags Dual front, front side, f/r curtain Dual front, front side, f/r curtain
    Basic warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles 4 yrs/50,000 miles
    Powertrain warranty 3 yrs/36,000 miles 5 yrs/60,000 miles
    Roadside assistance 3 yrs/36,000 miles 4 yrs/unlimited miles
    Fuel capacity 13.2 gal 14.5 gal
    EPA city/hwy econ 22 / 31 mpg 23 / 32 mpg
    MT fuel economy 22 mpg 20 mpg
    Recommended fuel Unleaded premium Unleaded premium

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  • If you are going to post something that long, at least edit the garbage out.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Forget it. Some folks can't be reached. He's happy with his Si (and probably has a 24" "Type-R" vinyl graphic in the rear window and a 4" exhaust tip).

    The ONLY thing he's said lately that made any sense was when he said the Speed3 doesn't even compare to the Si.

    He's right. ;)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Hey! Thanks for all the stats on the Si vs. the GTI.

    From a quick perusal of the stats, I find that the GTI is faster to ALL speeds (despite the Si having a substantial power/weight advantage. Huh, who wudda thunk it? I guess TORQUE does count for something) AND has a lot more interior room.

    For an Si fanboy, you don't seem to be making your point very well...... :P
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    I doubt that the vaunted Mazdaspeed 3 will beat those numbers by much, if at all.

    It will beat every one of those numbers, guaranteed.

    I showed you the base Mazda3 because it's numbers aren't all that far off from the Si's numbers. MAZDASPEED tuned cars tend to out-perform their base cousins by a wide margin and I don't think anyone around here, with the exception of you, doubts the MAZDASPEED3 will be any different.

    BTW, Edmuds slalom speed for the base Mazda3 5-door with an automatic tranny was 69 mph. That beats your Si according to them. Now consider that the MPS3 will handle even better and do you think it's still going to lose to the Si? 0-60 under 6 seconds, 1/4 mile in the low 14s (maybe even high 13s) not convincing enough either?

    You can't compare numbers from two different sources. They all test differently and pulling the best numbers you find regardless of the source is just silly. Just look at Edmunds 0-60 time for the Si. 6.8 seconds is what they got which is a big difference from what MT got but yet tested on the same day under the same conditions as the 68.5 slalom speed. The best way to compare performance data is to take it from a head-to-head comparo which I'm sure we'll see for the Si, GTI, and MPS3 very soon.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "0-60 under 5 seconds"

    Well, let's not get carried away with the hyperbole..... :blush:
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    Well, let's not get carried away with the hyperbole.....

    Oops! Typo. :blush: I fixed it. Should read 0-60 under 6 seconds.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I figured as much. It looked like you were on a roll though. I like one of your earlier posts: I also think our favorite contributor in this forum may be suspiciously absent as soon as the first head-to-head comparos are published.

    Seeing as how he's SUCH a big fan of stats....... :surprise:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I doubt that the vaunted Mazdaspeed 3 will beat those numbers by much, if at all.

    Look at these numbers and which is the probabal winner (Bold text denotes advantage):

    Horse power:
    Si 197 MS3 263
    Si 139 MS3 280

    Weight-HP ratio:
    Si 14.6 MS3 11.8
    Weight-TQ ratio:
    Si 20.7 MS3 11.1
    Standard Tires:
    Si All-season Radials P215/45 R17 87V
    MS3 Summer Radials P215 45 R18 93Y

    I think the 0-60 6.3 M/T time will be beat, as well as Edmunds time of 6.8 for the Si.

    Also, on a side note. Fuel economy. I know this is not of too much importance when purchasing vehicles like these, but, with only a 3mpg city, 4mpg highway EST advantage for the Civic, that hardly looks impressive considering the MS3 is .3L larger, and boasts 66 more horses and 141 more lbs. of Tq.
  • Will the Mazdaspeed3 require premium? I assume so. One big drawback of the car is the 20/28 mpg rating. I suspect given my driving style that'd be 20 mpg for me like my 330i (20/30 rating). The GTI DSG's 25/31 gets my eyebrow up as 25 mpg doesn't sound awful. $500 a year savings on the gas bill is hard to sneeze at (15k miles at $3.30 a gallon).

    Weight of the MS3 seems to be around 3100 lbs. How'd they add so much weight to the car?!
  • riposteriposte Posts: 160
    If $500 is that dear to you, then buy a regular Civic or Mazda3. Not only will you save a couple of thousand $$, you'll get better fuel mileage, AND they take regular gas.

    Reminds me of a blog I saw somewhere...the poster was whining that she wanted to put regular in her $40 Lexus, to save $$.

    I advised her to sell the Lexus, and buy something she could afford.

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Yes, premium is required for the MS3, as well as the Civic Si and GTI.

    Where I am (Fairfield County, CT), premium is only $3.09 and regular is $2.91. If you drive 15,000/yr and average 20mi/gal, your fuel cost is $2,317.50 for premium. If you chose regular, it is $2182.50. Thats only a $135 difference. Shoot, I spend that on dinner every Saturday night. Thus, premium fuel is really no biggy. So, the premium fuel requirement should not be a financial burden on anyone, if it is, you have no business buying any of these vehicles.

    If you do a comparo between the GTI and MS3 it is about $460/yr difference. However, the GTI costs $23,370 for a base model with 18" alloys, and the MS3 is only $22,800. That's a difference of $570.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,210
    How'd they add so much weight to the car?!

    My guess would be stiffer steel, the larger wheels, and the intercooler which IIRC is pretty heavy based on some posts in the SPEED6 threads.
  • f $500 is that dear to you, then buy a regular Civic or Mazda3. Not only will you save a couple of thousand $$, you'll get better fuel mileage, AND they take regular gas.

    Maybe you didn't catch that I found the savings nice. My current car - a 2006 330i - gets 20 mpg, which is what I would expect to get with a Mazdaspeed3. There are few reasons this gets old:

    1. I'm forced to get gas once a week.
    2. I'm fond of my money and when the fun-to-cost ratio isn't in order (like say with my BMW), I begin to wonder if I'd like to put that money into other things (blinds for a room, a new fence, 401k, savings, another vacation, more sushi, etc).
    3. San Diego gas will in all likelihood break $4.00 a gallon in the near future. Each jump in price means every MPG makes a big difference. I spent a few hundred dollars driving around Europe in April. Expensive gas and cruddy gas mileage don't make for fun roadtrips.

    The GTI's 25 mpg offers a substantial boost for both 1 and 2. Perhaps the MS3 will be a blast to drive - or at least more fun than my BMW - and thus I won't mind getting gas constantly and paying out $2500 a year for gas.

    I wasn't talking about the regular v. premium debate. There's a performance difference when one cheaps out on gas. The performance gap between a GTI and Mazdaspeed3 could be wide but I'm betting it's gonna come down to Pepsi v. Coke. The GTI's got DSG, better mileage and fit/finish that only Audi trumps. The Mazda's got cat-like reflexes, lower ride height and Mazda reliability. Same prices approximately. The Mazdaspeed's more of a race car for the street - closer to the archaic WRX/STI and Evo but lacking in the AWD. The GTI's the long distance hauler that can be juiced up nicely with a few suspension and engine mods (strong aftermarket support too).

    I'm not saying gas mileage alone will cause me to withdraw my deposit on a Mazdaspeed3. That the dealer is now saying end of October may be the cause of that.. ;)
  • "Where I am (Fairfield County, CT), premium is only $3.09 and regular is $2.91."

    I just filled up today, at a station that I usually go to just outside of Minneapolis, and paid $2.429 for 91 octane. If I had opted for either 87 OR 89 octane, I would have paid $2.399, just 3 cents a gallon less. 3 cents is this station's normal premium/regular differential, so for me it makes paying for premium a non-issue.

    For the foreseeable future, gas prices generally appear to be headed down.
  • waiwai Posts: 327
    For you guys at CT & at Minneapolis, where you can easily find a station with 91 Octane and the price is only 5 cents difference for 87 & 91, you are lucky not to bother about the premium difference, here in NE around Delaware, MD or Pennsylvania where you seldom find 91 except in some Sunoco. and the price differece between 87 and 93 is from 30 cents to 40 cents difference. You may be tempted to fill in regular 87.
  • I read somewhere that the MS3 would be a 5.5s 0-60 car or so if it didn't have to shift to 3rd. But then again, maybe many other cars would, but it gives an idea of the power avail. It can pull 50-75mph in 3rd gear faster than a Porsche 997 carerra 2. It would be great for highway passing. The only thing I am worried about is a ride that may be much stiffer than the Si or Cooper S, otherwise it would be perfect.
This discussion has been closed.