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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Pat, can we create a Mazdaspeed3 Vs. Honda Civic Si thread and have those posts transfered there?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Pat, can we create a Mazdaspeed3 Vs. Honda Civic Si thread and have those posts transfered there?"

    Why not just expand this one to be inclusive of all three (Speed3 vs. GTI vs. Si)? After all, it's been a while since any GTI fans were in here and that way our resident Civic Si fan can help keep this thread going.

    Besides, something tells me that Edmunds just MIGHT have a 'hot hatch' comparo in the works and this place would be the perfect place to discuss it.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    ah! even better!!

    I like having the lone Si fan here. Makes things interesting!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Yes, I know this is not a WRX thread, but, I thought I would post anyways...

    The current issue of M/T does a comparo and the author states that Mazdaspeed3 won, convincingly.
  • What's bothering me the most between the Civic and the Mazdaspeed3 actually isn't the performance. Mazda set out to build a faster car than the competition, and they've done that. The Mazda has a 66 hp advantage and litterally DOUBLE the torque of the Honda. From a performance perspective, the Mazda is by far the better car. The only real thing to quibble over is possibly the handling, but until there is a direct track test between these two we can only guess. What's really giving me a hard time between these two cars is the overall connection between car and driver.

    Everytime I look at the Mazda interior, I get this kind of plasticky feel, a sort of cheapness that's hard to put my finger on. When I look at the Honda, I see well thought out intrumentation, alluring seats, a KICKIN stereo, and an overall more sporty and futuristic look. The interior is what connects the driver to the vehicle, and it's utterly critical. Also, as a MINI Cooper S driver, I can attest to the importance of the fun factor in a car. Cars like MINI's really make you feel a part of the experience, whereas I wonder if the heavy shifter and bulky frame (not to mention a 3150 lb weight) will make everything sort of numb...what we really need is a DIRECT comparison between the cars. It'll make all the difference in the world if we can get the opinions of each car in direct comparison to the other.
  • Everytime I look at the Mazda interior, I get this kind of plasticky feel, a sort of cheapness that's hard to put my finger on. When I look at the Honda, I see well thought out intrumentation, alluring seats, a KICKIN stereo, and an overall more sporty and futuristic look.

    I totally disagree. The interior of the Mazda3 is far more inviting to me as a driver. The seating position, the telescoping/tilting wheel, the windshield, instruments all fall to hand. The Civic's erogonomics weren't up to what I expect and the dash is just plain ludicrous - it's long, the speedo's in an odd/distracting place and outward visibility is strange as the massive/long a pillar.

    The Mazdaspeed3 supposedly improves on the already good interior - providing drivers with a better seat.
  • I agree. Mazda interiors are quite cheap looking. I like the fresh, modern look of the SI. The speedometer is directly below the windshield, in a PERFECT place to view without moving your eyes too much. Honda really did its homework on this superb automobile. When you approach redline the entire tach starts to blink in red to warn you. It is very modern.
  • I think the dashboard in the Civic is going to be a constant source of arguement, but oh well. Honestly, it all comes down to personal preference, and to be honest I haven't actually say in either of these cars (yet), so I'm basing all of this off of gallery images. I'm partial to the Civic because of the fact that I'm 6'3", and I've developed neck strain having to keep twitching my head up and down to check out the speedo and the tach on some cars. Therefore, I'm a fan of any innovation that reduces that.

    But then again, I just read about a new Mazdaspeed (read: covered by warranty) accessory kit that boosts the MS3 to 298 hp and 310 lb/ft of torque, fixes the suspension, and adds lighter wheels. Numbers like that just blow the Honda out of the water, and the kit only costs $2000. For the Honda to match those numbers would mean a lot of money, and possibly voiding the warranty. As much as I HATE to admit it, the Honda has been bested. I'm still a HUGE fan of the Civic, and if a Type R ever comes to the US, I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a cupcake, but until that wonderful day, I'm going to have to drop my 28 grand on the GT Mazdaspeed3, with Navigation and Mazdaspeed Accesory Kit.

    Evo Drivers, ye be warned. You're about to be passed by a Mazda that costs $10,000 less. Bitches.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Evo Drivers, ye be warned. You're about to be passed by a Mazda that costs $10,000 less. Bitches.

    Be careful of that statement. The Mazdaspeed3 was beaten in 0-60 by the far less refined WRX, according to M/T (5.5-6.0)
    But the MS3 catches and passes shortly after that.

    Without AWD, it will be tough to launch and keep up with an EVO.

    By the way, I am 6'3", and have plenty more room in the Mazda3 then the Civic. Also, there is an abundance of plastic on both vehicles. I think both have equal build quality.
  • I agree with blueguy. When I look at the interiors of the Mazdaspeed3 and the GTI, I see instrumentation befitting a drivers car. When I look at the Civic Si's interior, I see a video game.

    I prefer the bottom-end torque of the turbocharged, direct-injected Mazdaspeed and VW as opposed to the high-rpm, non-existent torque curve of the Honda (and Honda is supposed to have the "advanced-technology" engines)...
  • SI interior is clean, modern and functional, also well put together. You sound like another person who has never drivne an 06 SI. There is ample power throughout the revs. They don't need a turbo to get power. These use technology and advanced engine designs. Don't forget, Honda is the premier engine maker in the world.
  • You sound like another person who has never drivne an 06 SI. There is ample power throughout the revs.

    I'm not sure what you usually drive or what you're comparing the Si to. The last few cars I've owned all have over 200 ft-lbs of torque. Going from inline 6s, V6s or turbo 4s to the Si, I felt like the the car moved decently but not with anything I'd term "ample power." To each his own.

    They don't need a turbo to get power.

    Honda needs something and they know it...the Honda RDX is proof positive that honda realizes high-strung low-torque NA 4s aren't cutting it anymore.
  • To clarify, I was talking about a Mazdaspeed3 equipped with an additional accessory kit that knocks the power and suspension out of the ballpark. Not to sounds like an [non-permissible content removed], but read a little more closely next time.

    As for the torque discussion, you simply CANNOT compare a N/A 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder to a straight six or anything else larger than that. We're talking a TINY engine, that produces almost 200 hp WITHOUT the use of forced induction. That in itself is a technological masterpiece. It's cheaper, you don't suffer from turbo lag, and you don't have to worry about hot oil from your turbo damaging your engine when you shut it off. Now, with these advantages comes a large drawback: low-end torque is going to suffer. That's what you get when you choose to try and find a way OTHER than forced induction to get your numbers.

    But now for the fun part: Yes, the interior in the Honda is plasticky. But, it's futuristic plastic damnit, and it looks COOL. So if you're looking for a refined vehicle to show off to the chaps at the country club, look elsewhere. If you want something that's just darn cool looking and a blast to drive, go for the Civic (or a MINI for that matter. Just wait for the new ones to come out).

    If practicality means more to you, then go for the Mazda. It's got better numbers, and while it may not look as balls out crazy as the Honda, it's still got some serious style.

    In the end though, it all comes down to preference. So everyone, GO TEST DRIVE THESE SUCKERS! Then come back and tell us what you though of it. It'd make this discussion a lot more interesting.
  • as for the torque discussion, you simply CANNOT compare a N/A 2.0 liter, 4 cylinder...That in itself is a technological masterpiece.

    Hardly. 2.0s making 200 hp = yawn. Honda's S2000 made over 240 hp back at its introduction in 2000.

    It's cheaper, you don't suffer from turbo lag, and you don't have to worry about hot oil from your turbo damaging your engine when you shut it off.

    Welcome to the 21st century. You don't worry or suffer from turbo lag with a 2.0 turbo any more and you have zero worries about hot oil (today's engines continue to cycle the oil after the vehicle is turned off).

    it looks COOL.

    Looks are worthless. Functionality is more important. That long dash, long, thick a-pillars and massive windshield are a detriment when behind the wheel.

    It's got better numbers, and while it may not look as balls out crazy as the Honda, it's still got some serious style.

    You and I buy cars for different reasons. The physical appearance of the car means squat. Sales of seriously ugly cars like the GTI, WRX, Evo, 3 series, G35 prove more and more people are putting driving characteristics over something as worthless as exterior style. You drive a car from the inside.

    I have driven the GTI and Si. GTI gets my vote without a second's hesitation. Better car in just about everyway. Handling is where the Civic beats out the GTI. Tunability, comfort, convenience, technology, extras that make driving better = the GTI.

    Having driven the Mazda3, I'd take it over the Si too. Even when it's down on power it's a better all-around car, in my experience.
  • Whoa whoa whoa calm down buddy. This forum is intended to be a place of peaceful discussion, so easy with the hostility.

    You're very right though, you and I buy cars for very different reasons. To be clear though, I regard the GTI, WRX, Evo, BMW 3 series, and the G35 as some of the most beautiful cars in existence. And if exterior style and looks are "worthless," then why do manufacturers spend millions of dollars every year in designing them, hm? While this doesn't seem to matter to you, everyone I've ever met, enthusiast or not, cares to some degree about the way their car looks both inside and out. Maybe I and my peers are an anomaly, but then again maybe you are.

    I'm glad you've driven the cars and expressed your opinion, but please don't make sweeping generalizations and derisive comments. They're quite rude, when all I want to do is discuss some wonderful cars. So please be respectful in expressing your opinion.
  • While this doesn't seem to matter to you, everyone I've ever met, enthusiast or not, cares to some degree about the way their car looks both inside and out. Maybe I and my peers are an anomaly, but then again maybe you are.

    Oh, I admit I buy cars for different reasons than most people. Handling, ergonomics, tranny, etc matter to me before things like cupholders, reliability, exterior looks.

    I'm glad you've driven the cars and expressed your opinion, but please don't make sweeping generalizations and derisive comments. They're quite rude, when all I want to do is discuss some wonderful cars. So please be respectful in expressing your opinion.

    I have no idea what brought on that but I apologize if I hurt your feelings or offended you. Just commented on the hyperbole regarding the Honda 2.0 and the appearance of said car.
  • Some people have no clue as to how they portray themselves in there comments. I think we have an example of that here.
  • Some people have no clue as to how they portray themselves in there comments. I think we have an example of that here.

    A nice helping of irony?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    To clarify, I was talking about a Mazdaspeed3 equipped with an additional accessory kit that knocks the power and suspension out of the ballpark. Not to sounds like an [non-permissible content removed], but read a little more closely next time.

    I did comment correctly on this statement. You must be careful about saying the Mazdaspeed3 will dust an EVO if it is equipped with this "accessory" kit you are talking about. With similar HP and no AWD for the Speed3, it would be tough to keep up, especially when 1st and 2nd gear's are electronically limited in power. Maybe we should wait until there is a comparo between the Mazdaspeed Mazdaspeed3 and EVO X.

    As for the rest of your statement, I think you meant to reply to another poster. I never talked about anything you replied to in your post. Not to sound like an [non-permissible content removed], but you might want to read a little closer next time ;)
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "A nice helping of irony?"

    Funny....I was thinking the exact same thing.
This discussion has been closed.