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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    this was funny!

    i feel ya ckid i wish the double wishbones would come back.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    thats funny.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    ugh tell me about it. I must say that the element commericals are pretty funny. (no pinch.) :)
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    the dealer has a MS3. all the mazda dealers near us do not have them in stock. when they do get them which is rare they are sold. They want us to put down a deposit and order one. We want to try it out before we buy. Plus they want more than sticker price. we will wait
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    Yeah, more than sticker = put down the crack pipe.
  • gogiboygogiboy Posts: 732
    nj2--

    I drove an MS3 today. They weren't going to let me drive it either, stating that they had had several wrecks when customers and one general manager drove other speeds and an RX8 irresponsibly. I said it would be impossible for me to decide whether I wanted a 3 hatch or 3speed without at least a reasonable test. I said if I liked it I would agree to have them trade for a MS3 spot since the one they had was a GT with navigation and more than I wanted to spend.

    The salesman got the keys from the GM and I tested it (this is in OK City). Lord, the MS3 is fast and taut. It's just more car than I figured I could handle responsibly. The clutch is really grabby and jarring, but what a rush! In the end I figured I'd have an easier time living with a standard 5 speed S touring hatch, but I'm glad I drove the MS3. I figured with both the MS3 and Civic SI that speeding tickets would start draining my bank account, while simultaneously jacking up my insurance. It's certainly a nice car for the right buyer who is looking for a thrill on the daily drive. "Exhilarating" is the word that comes to mind. The dealer was willing to sell both the GT and sport at MSRP. It's a lot of car for the money, but "a man's got to know his limitations". There is still a small part of me feeling a tinge of regret, but I've still got my MR2.

    Gogiboy
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "...i wish the double wishbones would come back."

    It did, expensively along w/ a 2.4 4-cyl, in the overweight TSX, which might be available in a coupe, which might as well 'cause the MS3 has more stretch-out rear-seat leg room. :P
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    I test drove last years model TSX... it seemed a bit sluggish off the line and the suspension was kinda soft.

    Plus I didn't like the fit and finish, too many bits of hard plastic... and no back-seat a/c vents.

    (I grew up thinking that back-seat a/c vents where a hallmark of a high-end, expensive car. To see a high-end, expensive car without them tells me that the car is just overpriced.)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    High end expensive car? It's a 27k car!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yes, the price of a TSX is lower than the average transaction price of a new vehicle these days (around $29,000 according to Motor Trend).

    Heck, you can't get a Tahoe with cloth seats and manual A/C for $27k.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    i never realized the tsx does not have a/c vents in the back. maybe because i never sit in the back. Oh yes, I own a 06 tsx 6spdw/nav for 4 months and 7,000+miles and so far no complaints. But then again I also love our 05 Elantra GT 5 spd. it has almost 60,000 miles.next car we are leaning towards a mazda
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Looking at this, I find it interesting that the TSX doesn't have ventilation ducts under the floor like most Hondas have for the last 15 years or more. My 1996 LX has them, our 1993 Accord EX had them (we traded that car YEARS ago). Surely the TS has them?

    I know my Accords have them. Set the ventilation to panel/floor or just floor, and feel the airflow from under the front seat into the rear seat.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    i just went and checked out my tsx. I found out that when I set the ventilation on panel/floor I felt the airflow under the front seat to the rear seat. when the system is on auto and you select the temp the airflow basically goes whereever. If you do it manually, with the a/c button then you have control where the airflow goes. My mom's 98 Honda accord ex-v6 has the auto system and there is no way you can regulate where the airflow goes.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    My mom's 98 Honda accord ex-v6 has the auto system and there is no way you can regulate where the airflow goes.

    Yes there is. From full auto mode, push "mode" until you see the icon on the screen delivering the airflow you desire. The mode button is just to the right of the LCD screen, and to the left of the fan speed control knob.

    image
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    thanks alot for the information-very much appreciated. I will have to check it out next week when I am at my mom's. She has owned the accord since new and it has 60,000 miles on it. she is 80 years old and does not drive far. I guess I should be thankful she has her health and is able to drive.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    No, but you can buy a VW GTI (with back seat A/C vents) for $22k.

    Or a Volvo S40 (with back seat A/C vents) for $24K.

    So should not the supposed 'luxury' marque of Acura actually OUTDO the not so premium brands of Volvo and VW?

    After all, Lexus is Toyota's luxury marque, Infiniti is Nissan's, and Acura is Honda's.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Apparently you didn't read where the TSX owner told about the under-seat A/C-Heater Ducts?

    Just curious, when all of the sudden did drivers of pocket-rockets become so concerned about back seat passengers? Seems like they'd be WAAAAY down my list of concerns. Hehehe :)
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    I'm not talking about underseat vents. I'm talking about the adjustable vents found in the center stack (VW/Lexus/Audi/etc) or on the side pillars (Volvo).

    Similar to the vents found in on the dashboard. Complete with 'on/off' sliders to adjust the amount of airflow.
  • nj2pa2ncnj2pa2nc Posts: 813
    shows how unobservant I am. My brother owns an 07 volvo s-80 and my sister-in-law has a lexus. I have been in the back seat of both Never noticed those vents. I will have to look for them next time I am in their cars. I just found out the mazda dealer near us has 3 mazdaspeed 3's. will be checking them out tomorrow.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Oh. I've always considered those nevessary in big vehicles, but compacts like the TSX and S40 I guess I never thought "adjustable" vents were a big deal.

    Just shows that we all have different requirements and needs in a vehicle. In a Lexus ES350, I could see shopping for those. They just wouldn't be a priority in a car made for low-priced performance.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Posts: 483
    My own, I repeat my own, insurance agent has given me 6 month figures for the GTI, MS3 and Civic SI sedan and the the GTI is the most expensive to insure followed by the MS3 and Civic SI.

    Change your insurance. That is beyond absurd.
  • I test drove the MS3 today. Very fast, and felt very cheap, IMO. I would not want this as a daily driver. The GTI felt better in terms of daily driving then did the MS3. I would never purchase this vehicle. IMO, the SI is by far the best of these three vehicles. By far the best quality of interior and exterior. Best handling. Just as quick as the 2.0 turbo charged GTI. (Again, the germans can't make HP without a turbo in a small displacement engine). I'm extremely happy I purchased the SI. Good luck with the MS3, IMO a teenager race boy toy.
  • gogiboygogiboy Posts: 732
    "Change your insurance. That is beyond absurd"

    Why? Insurance rates vary by region, by age, by driving record, by sex, by the price of replacement parts and other actuarial information that you and I will never be privy to.

    I have been with the same insurer for 20 years, have all three cars and house insured with same, have 250/500 coverage plus a $1 million umbrella policy with no tickets or accidents. For three cars I spend $1700/year. I'm not saying that insurance can't be had for less, but calling it "beyond absurd" smacks of gross hyperbole.

    Gogiboy
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I agree about the MS3 being too rough for a daily driver. But the interior layout and quality easily surpasses the insanely cheap honda interior.

    And the Si is not even close to quick. Off the line there's a gap from the Si to the GTI to the MS3; while in motion the Si might as well not have an engine as you simply can't motivate that car to 100 mph easily.
  • ezpilzeezpilze Posts: 29
    I'm sorry, but I agree w/ carfanatic007 about the interior. Mazda has its interior decked out nicely, but alot of it feels like cheap thin plastic, the Si's interior atleast sounds solid when I knock on the dash board.

    The Si is definitely fast enough, I don't see why you need to be going at 100+ mph in the city. If you can keep your car going at 60+ mph for more than 3 minutes in the city, I'll praise you for that. But why do you need to go over 100+ mph on the freeway (which I'm guessing will be the only place you'll be going over 100+ mph)? Also, with a 2.0 litre NA, you can't expect the same kinda torque from the speed3 and GTI. Keep in mind the Si was meant to be FUN, not crazy competitive like the EVO.

    I'm not trying to defend the Si or anything, the speed3 is a great car (insanely fast for the price), but if you're going to say the Si is slow, then I'd recommend consider placing both cars on a windy track and then tell me how much slower the Si is compared to the speed3. The Si was NEVER meant for a drag race, so I don't even know why you're including off the line acceleration for the Si.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Good luck with your Si

    MS3, IMO a teenager race boy toy.

    Your are entitled to your opinion, however, if you look up "teenager boy toy" in the dictionary, you will see a picture of a Honda Civic Si. :P

    By far the best quality of interior and exterior

    The interior is no better the the Mazdaspeed3. Just as much plastic. Honda did not do a great job of covering it up. The GTI has the best interior, hands down.

    To each their own.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    as far as the twisties go, alot of tests have proven that the mazdaspeed owns. Maybe not my a heck of a lot, but it is a handler.

    The si is a great car, i would hardly call the interior cheap and i'd say its about on par with the mazda. But the gti does win hands down on the interior. This is the aspect in which the gti owns.

    As far as going fast on the free way, we can limit this to a more realistic number and say about 60-80. The si is a great handler, and a good bargain and defintely has a great 'tossability' factor. But because of when torque comes in on it (which is just barely shy of redline) the gti would have no problems blowing down the freeway in a quicker manner, even if it was just a real world thing like merging.(or cutting somone off! :P ) Again that just becasue of how the cars deliver their torque. Each has its own stregnths, and weaknesses.

    None of these cars were created specifically for 'drag racing'. But 0-60 times do come into play in the real world. What fun is a car along the lines of a gti/si/ms3 if you arent going to size someone up at a stoplight every once in a while? :blush:

    True, you can't expect the same amount of torque from a 2.0 n/a. But honda has been resiliant to turbos for a while, at least in the si. It may be as fast as the gti, but the gti is does it in an easier manner.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Again, the germans can't make HP without a turbo in a small displacement engine).

    and the [non-permissible content removed] cant seem to make torque with a naturally aspirated one. :blush:

    IMO a teenager race boy toy

    wether you want to hear it or not, wether you want to belive it or not, the civic and the si are more closely associated with the 'boy racer' image than any of the other cars we are discussing here. That isn't an opinion, it just how it is!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    I'm not trying to defend the Si or anything, the speed3 is a great car (insanely fast for the price), but if you're going to say the Si is slow, then I'd recommend consider placing both cars on a windy track and then tell me how much slower the Si is compared to the speed3.

    I've tracked cars. The MS3's handling is a hair behind the Si. But the MS3 can hit the straights and explode, making it between corners far faster, while exiting at speeds the Si simply couldn't. Flat out could not. There is no get-up-and-go in the Si at 5k, 6k, 7k vis-a-vis the GTI/MS3.

    The Si was NEVER meant for a drag race, so I don't even know why you're including off the line acceleration for the Si.

    I never mentioned off-the-line. I'm talking about at speed - 30, 40, 50, etc. At any moving speed the MS3 takes off as if its pants were on fire. The Si at any speed slowly - and loudly - builds speed. It's handling is tight, no doubt, but unless you're autoXing, the cornering ability only helps with some twisties...not with the straights. Hit a straight with an Si and you'll never come close to nabbing 100 mph before the next corner. The MS3 pulls like a beast, so much so that 100 mph would be quite possible on many tracks.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I'd recommend consider placing both cars on a windy track and then tell me how much slower the Si is compared to the speed3.

    The already did...

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=117762
This discussion has been closed.