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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    Thanks guy. Agree with your post whole heartedly. Good point about europeans spending more time in their cars as well. I wonder how cr gets its relaibility numbers, i figured they'd send something to the owners, but being one of the 'fairly' few new rabbit owners i have not really heard anything from them, but from other automotive rating companies asking to rate my rabbit for them. Good post!
  • > So, you would say the Mexican built VW's are more reliable then the American built Honda's?

    If you are referring to the GTI, the GTI is made in Germany.
  • "And then the vw buff. The one who supports duetschland like if it was the only carmaker that ever existed."

    Germany is not the only car maker, is the only good car maker. ;)

    Let me clarify something. I am not a VW fan, I am fan of good cars regardless of their make. I want the best car for the money regardless of who produces it. It just happens that in this segment under 30000 VW is practically untouchable. People in Europe know this and they have a much larger palette of choices than we have here...still best sales go to VW. Note that VW Passat beats the European Honda Accord in sales, which there is the same car as Acura TSX here. A VW Passat is chosen over Acura, while here we have people taking things so far that they will compare an Acura with a BMW, which is insane. I hope car buyers here will become more educated about cars and be able to judge without having their vision blurred by the ridiculous ratings found in Consumer Reports. Hopefully nobody will have to hear things like: VW doesn't have the build quality of a cheap brand like Honda in the future.
  • "As for insurance, I KNOW the GTI is expensive to insure, because my auto insurer allows you to do online quotes... I basically input same driver, same policy, but switch around the insured car. GTI is $410 more a year than my current car... the jump might be even much higher than that for a teen."

    No you don't. The change from an Accord sedan to a 4 door GTI costs me 15 dollars more for 6 months same coverage, same insurance company. However a BMW 335 will cost about 120$ LESS. I know because I was in the market for one. Civic SI 170 more, Mazdaspeed 3 110 more. Safety features reduce the premium drastically. Honda and Mazda lack in that aspect. not the only aspect they lack though ;) .
  • guy1974guy1974 Posts: 89
    I wouldn`t agree that Honda is a cheap brand (that would be Kia, Chevy for example). But it is true that in Europe the Passat (and for that matter Ford Mondeo) competes against the Acura TSX.
    This is starting to get off the topic of this discussion. But I think it is fair to say that VW is at least equal to Honda as a quality brand. Some people will think higher but at the very least equal.
    If VW was serious they would build a factory in the US to build Jetta, Rabbit, GTi and Passat rather than import them or build in Mexico.
  • "VW was serious they would build a factory in the US to build Jetta, Rabbit, GTi and Passat rather than import them or build in Mexico"

    VW builds only Jettas, GLI's and Beetle's in Mexico.
    GTI, Rabbit and Passat are built in Germany.
    Why would US be a better place to build cars? None of the japanese makers wants to build any of the sport versions or luxury versions of their cars here. Mazdaspeed 6 and 3 are built only in Japan, Honda S2000 is built only in Japan.
    All Lexus and Infiniti cars are built only in Japan. Never wondered why?
  • But I think it is fair to say that VW is at least equal to Honda as a quality brand.

    I agree that European Honda(Acura here) is on the same position with the VW. Hondas that are sold here are cars that are not sold anywhere else in the world because they are substandard. They are badly engineered and sold for the price Acura(real Honda) should sell. The exception is Honda S2000 which is the only real Honda sold in US.
  • But I think it is fair to say that VW is at least equal to Honda as a quality brand.

    Wow...just wow.
  • guy1974guy1974 Posts: 89
    Suprised by your dismissive comment. It is acknowledged that the Passat competes with the Acura TSX in Europe on an equal footing. Just look at magazine reviews (whatcar.co.uk is very good) but also sales success. You could say that Honda is more of a niche player in Europe so it is not surprising that the Passat outsells it. But there are other mid sized cars that compete at a slightly lower price point like the Opel Vectra and Ford Mondeo which give a lot of competition to VW.

    I said that it might be an idea for VW to build a factory in the US for several reasons ;
    1) shows they are serious about the US market rather than viewing it as a small, niche market
    2) reduce there exposure to exchange rate fluctuation (dollar-euro) which can really effect their profitability
    3) I am not convinced that Mexico can build cars as well as the US, why have Honda and Toyota only opened factories in the US and not Mexico (surely not just to be seen as serious or patriotic).

    Bottom line - any of the three cars listed in this discussion would be worth buying. It all depends on our own views of styling, how much we like to rev the engine, interior styling, ride etc.
  • "said that it might be an idea for VW to build a factory in the US for several reasons ;
    "1) shows they are serious about the US market rather than viewing it as a small, niche market"

    I think VW thinks is not profitable enough for them to build factories here. While Honda and Toyota succeeded in creating an entire line of cars especially for US they needed to do that...after the lack of success on the European market. Their only choice to achieve success on the international market was to sell first in US and I have to agree that they did quite well in here. VW does not have that problem. Their cars sell incredibly well in Europe (Golf and Passat are in top of their segments)and they probably feel that US is not going to be their best market. I think they understand that the regular car buyer here is not really looking for a special car, plus again unlike Europe where the word reliability comes rarely in a discussion about cars(that's because people know that the differences in reliability between cars from different manufacturers are really small)here is the most important aspect.
    Consumer Reports and JD power created a false image by making it look like the car with the best reliability rating and the one on the 10th place are worlds apart when in fact if you look at their estimation 1 place Lexus(has about 126 defects per 100 cars)and for example BMW(I think is 17th place has like 170 per 100 cars). If we assume that that's true is still an insignificant difference. But,
    if we ask people on the street almost all of them are going to say that BMW is a nice car but is not reliable while Lexus never brakes down. The seed was planted and was planted well. I am glad that the Germans make their cars so good that many people are saying something like: I prefer to repair a BMW than to have a problem free Lexus. And then they see that you can actually have it all . Their German car doesn't brake down and they have not only a reliable car but a great driver's car.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    faster than you, don't get me wrong man, i've got a 07 rabbit that i switched over from a brand new civic, i can appreciate a german car no problem. But lets not be silly and say stuff like you think you people would. I mean all pretenses rather fix a german car than have a problem free japanese one. I agree that going by all those numbers is a lame approach, but just like all the german car bashers here, you are resorting to those same numbers!

    Just because the european accord is the acura tsx here in the states does not mean that 'the real honda' is in europe; their version of the civic in europe, while it has more dramatic styling, has an inferior suspension to our double wishbone version here and their high performing type r civic which should be out soon is actually on par with our si, which is not supposed to be as exclusive.

    Look, i would take a gti over a lot of cars, its my, hopefully,next vehicle. But i still can respect competitors.

    Look, i know that honda may fall just a hair short of interior build quality behind vw, but thats just a hair and its very very arguable. My civic was pretty impeccable and if you are insinuating that honda is cheap, your, well...just wrong. If you have a preference for a brand thats fine, hey who doesn't! But it just seems that you are a bit of a flamer thats all. I used to do what you do, but i've tried to tone it down. It does not help anyone to understand your point better...i don't think anyone will be able to either since what you are trying to prove is not a point, but that you think one brand is better than another.

    Right now, i think i favor vw more than honda, they offer a cool sporty car that has torque and looks good and is available with something reminiscent of an automatic, something that honda doesn'T not offer with their si and i love that car too, and i understand why they offer it with only a manual.

    I'm pretty sure that vw europe doesn't sit there and analyze the fact that americans don't look for special cars. Its because its not true. Maybe some of them don't, but not everybody. Hatchbacks just don't do as well with the average american, but i happen to love them. The golf sells better in europe because of that. I think that if vw doesn't feel that the US will be a good market to sell in they wouldn't do things like make the rabbit nameplate exclusive to us or make the 2.5 five cylinder exclusive either.

    I agree that for SOME of us the gti is unmatched. I personally thing that for ME it is also unmatched. But i think honda is a great company too and that both companies have their strengths and weaknesses.

    Dont be hatin'! :blush:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    When did VW start the GTI, out of curiousity? :confuse: :)
  • "When did VW start the GTI, out of curiousity?"

    June 1976.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks.

    Just wanted to know how much earlier the GTI came out than the Civic Si. 9 years is the answer.
  • 1 place Lexus(has about 126 defects per 100 cars)and for example BMW(I think is 17th place has like 170 per 100 cars). If we assume that that's true is still an insignificant difference.

    Hardly. It's a massive difference. Lexus had 136 problems per 100, while BMW was far behind at 212 and VW is ludicrously behind at 299.

    http://autos.aol.com/article/general/v2/_a/lexus-most-dependable-auto-brand-for/- 20060810091909990001

    If you're getting 50-60% more problems than the guy next to you, you're spending far more time at a dealership. VW's ranking is much, much lower - almost 300 problems per 100 cars. That's a difference that's near impossible to ignore.
  • Suprised by your dismissive comment.

    Well I was surprised by his absurd statement. VW's not just a little behind Honda in terms of reliability...
  • For the study, Westlake Village, Calif.-based J.D. Power questions owners of three-year-old vehicles about problems they are experiencing. This year's survey questioned 47,620 original owners of 2003 model-year cars and trucks.

    Wow, 47,000 people surveyed from 37 different car manufacturers...hmm... :confuse:
  • It'd called a representative sample. This is how polls are conducted.
  • "Hardly. It's a massive difference. Lexus had 136 problems per 100, while BMW was far behind at 212 and VW is ludicrously behind at 299."

    A massive difference????????. You are not serious, are you?
    When they will say Lexus has 3 problems per 100 vehicles and BMW 212 they I will count Lexus as being very reliable compared with a BMW . According to your numbers I would still need to go to the dealership if I buy a Lexus and that's enough reason not to settle for a lesser car. With the BMW at least I have the satisfaction of having a fantastic car. The odds are that I have all the chances to get a BMW that is problem free but absolutely no chance to get a Lexus that will satisfy me as a driver.
  • eldainoeldaino Posts: 1,618
    what this thread is suppossed to be about. :P
This discussion has been closed.