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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    Or Honda's bad 5-speed autos. Of course, I'd counter with Mazda's overall lesser reputation and the ungodly oil consumption of the earliest renesis engines and their currently miserable oil consumption. I also seem to recall Three owners having A/C issues.
  • both companies have had problems.

    mazda may have a lesser reputation with reliablity, but honda has a lesser reputation on sportiness. (something that they seem to be trying to do away with. the civic is nice, some semblance of sportiness, and the fit is a blast, but aside from the si and the fit, hondas in general seem to have lost the sporty touch they once had.) i wonder what the next civic will bring to the table...
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    I didn't get the Mazda on account of the smily face either. I'm getting the GTI only because to me it has the best realiability than the Jetta,Golf and Rabbit.
    It's too bad Acura dropped the RSX S model. Don't compare the SI civic to the RSX Type S a much better built and comfortable ride. I had one and it was bullit proof.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    yup, Mazda caught Honda with the 3 model.Civic can't compete with a Mazda 3.
  • I'm getting the GTI only because to me it has the best realiability than the Jetta,Golf and Rabbit.

    actually, the GTI, while much better than the mkIV gti's, has had the worst reliability of all the cars you just mentioned. the rabbit has enjoyed the best.

    It's too bad Acura dropped the RSX S model. Don't compare the SI civic to the RSX Type S a much better built and comfortable ride. I had one and it was bullit proof.

    do you have proof it was 'built' better? the rsx was nice, but the reason they dropped it was becuase it didnt empart a premium feel, and the leather offered was anything but premium. not to mention that when the new si came out, it was so close in price, the only real thing the rsx offered over the si WAS leather seating.(and maybe better steering feel.)

    and it didnt have a limted slip differential like the new si does. (though i like the seats in the non leather rsx better.)

    but you do get more car with the civic si than you do with the rsx-s.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    The Si competes just fine with the Three; what it can't compete against is the MS3.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    The next Si is supposed to bring 215hp to the table. I hope it doesn't bring Honda's recent atrocious styling too.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    The SI isn't a HB the RSX was.I need a HB.You can't go to home depot w/SI can you?If so I'd buy one.
    I was lookining at a Scion XD because you can trick it out and not void the warranty.
    However, no sunroof and I'd have to switch out or modify front seats for them to be heated. My best bet is to buy a gas Golf 3 dr and put an armrest in it.Volkswagon Golf is not that bad on price,but the TDI Golf I can get with s/r heated seats,manual for $24k and I think thats too much. Diesal fuel here is.$64 a gallon more than gas.
    Also, if something goes like a fuel pump in a diesal,I'd be out alot of bucks.VW isn't known for that good quality to gamble on them.The extended warranty you have to haggle down from 2k.
    Also, the dealers I've been to don't seem to want to deal right now. This economy is still down and maybe next spring or summer we will see some incentives.
    Well, have a good day. :confuse:
  • i 'kinda' understand your hatchback argument....if the hatchback on the rsx was reasonably big, but its not that big. you could get an si sedan and fit just as much in the much larger trunk.

    but if you only want a two door, well then yea i see your point.

    the golf tdi is on a much different mission...and it offers torque that neither honda could supply unless you were turbo/supercharging it.

    diesel would be more expensive yes...but you would be looking at regular 500 mile tanks.

    and the interior? pfftt! the golf knows no competiton. (if stuff like that is important to you,which i'm assuming it is since you listed the acuras interior as being 'nicer' than the si.)
  • if they make it look like the euro civic hatch i'll be happy.

    215hp? where did you hear about this from? 215 from the current k20?

    great, that means it will have only a couple more lb-ft of torque.

    and that means it will have to have AMAZING handling to make up for it, or weigh nothing.

    NOW...if thats 215hp from a tsx sourced k24 four cylinder, there is at least 165lb-ft of twist in that motor, and if they keep weight about the same/less, it may give the si the edge it needs to keep up.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    Why do you need heated cloth seats? Leather I could understand.

    The Si sedan back seat folds down, but it won't load to the ceiling like a hatchback will. I don't like using my car like a truck, but I did own Integras for over ten years and it helped moving things from college and grad school.

    Diesels are 30% more fuel efficient, so is 64 cents more/gal. a 30% difference over gas? Here it is within a quarter between regular and diesel and has been within a nickel a couple months ago; last year it cost more than premium.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    TOV has it posted and it won't be a euro hatch (thank god), but a sedan (probably a coupe, maybe a hatch of the same platform). I expect it will be a K-series, but don't know the displacement and it might be direct injection or other new technology. This is a rumor from someone at an outside source that makes components for Honda. It will be 2011 (2012 model year) before it rolls out, as Honda wants another year out of the current platform.
  • ah ok i see.

    wow so the current civic is going for a 6 year run huh? interesting.

    i just hope it has some torque.

    dont like the euro civic eh? lol, i personally like when honda is a bit daring.

    they honestly need to go back to their roots the way VW did, i guess they dont because the ep3 left such a bad taste in everyones mouth. thanks for the info though cz75, i'll check out TOV.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/202445/honda_civic_typer_latest.html

    The new Euro Civic looks energetic & handsome. W/o looking at its badge, you'd think its the modern version of the old Scirocco/Corrado, while the re-borned Scirocco today looks wimpy/dumpy & not too different from the old '92 Civic. LOL

    See post #1349
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef6c2da/1348#MSG1348

    But no matter how handsome it is, this Euro Civic w/ simple strut-front/beam-rear suspension (just like the Fit) makes me proud b/c my '2000 Civc hatch w/ double-wishbone suspension FRONT & BACK & 103" wheelbase (w/ customized pwr windows/locks/mirrors, DVD/navigation, Monaco driver seat, front sway bar, softer springs from LX sedan, etc.) now feels like the most high-tech tiny car in world!

    Even today's Mazda3, which does not have multilink front suspension, is heavy & bulky like a barge by comparison :P
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    my '2000 Civc hatch w/ double-wishbone suspension FRONT & BACK & 103" wheelbase (w/ customized pwr windows/locks/mirrors, DVD/navigation, Monaco driver seat, front sway bar, softer springs from LX sedan, etc.) now feels like the most high-tech tiny car in world!

    I don't know if you were trying to be sarcastic or not. But, IIRC, that gen of Civic Si was not a hatch. Not here in the US anyway...

    Even today's Mazda3, which does not have multilink front suspension, is heavy & bulky like a barge by comparison

    Todays Mazda3 is bigger then many cars from 10 years ago. C'mon..gimme a break.

    The Mazda3 does have multilink rear though and has best in class handling. That is what matters. Not what hit the streets 10 years ago.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    All Civic's lost the front Double Wishbones after 2000. That cool-looking current-generation Euro-market Civic hatch also lost the rear multi-links/DW, unlike the notchback we're getting.

    My point is that cars w/ small-exterior don't come w/ high-tech multi-link/DW suspension ALL AROUND anymore.

    Nevertheless, I still hate the slow-&numb steering of my "high-tech" 2000 Civic. That's why, despite living w/ dangerously-high level of oversteer, I still can't get rid of my '90 Protege twincam, which steers so deliciously that none of you modern-car owners can imagine.

    I am so addicted to steering feel that I even rescued an old MkI '84 Jetta w/ manual steering from going to the junkyard.

    The pre-2006 Miata also steers great, but I want elastic long-travel comfy suspension as well.

    I remember test driving a comfy-riding MkV Rabbit, but its electric pwr steering was disastrous when comes to steering feel.

    W/o great steering feel, I don't see what's so fun about driving, no matter how high the road holding is.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Nevertheless, I still hate the slow-&numb steering

    +1

    I still can't get rid of my '90 Protege twincam, which steers so deliciously that none of you modern-car owners can imagine

    My '05 Mazda6 has great steering feel as well. No electric assist. The Mazdaspeed3 has a more weighty feeling then the regular Mazda3. I don't like floaty steering systems.
  • actually, as far as eletric systems go, ony the fit and mazda 3 really have this down, but the rabbit is not as terrible as you make it seem. all the other systems i have driven, including a civic hybrid and prius were terrible. while not as good as the 3 or fit, the rabbits was not bad at all, and probably had more to do with the fact that the steering ratio is not as quick.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    The old Mazda3 used to have electro-hydraulic. Did the new version switch to fully electric?

    Nevertheless, the MkVI GTI has improved steering feel over the MkV:

    http://newsletter.evo.co.uk/c/161K9906Oxy4ApC7jmw

    "Spot on – although it takes me a while to work my way up to that level. The new GTI is fearfully competent. Does that concern you? It should. True, the last Golf was not a raw, trembling ball of energy either, settling for being richly satisfying instead, but in the new one you really have to go looking for entertainment. Cruise around and the stunning damping composure means the car is always too much in control, too able. So you hurl it into a tight-ish third-gear corner. Aha… now we’re talking. Now the steering is more alert, now you can feel what’s going on, now the front end sharpens up a treat. Now it’s a GTI.

    It’s a neat trick, a sudden sense of layers pulled back, true character revealed, but it’s also frustrating knowing how hard you have to drive it to have fun."

    The Scirocco uses Passat's rear suspension just like the Control Blades originally from the Focus/Mazda3.

    Not sure if the MkV GTI switched away from Control Blades on the MkVI. Does any body know?

    The whole point is that, compare to the MkV GTI, the MkVI GTI is "too much in control, too able" so "it’s also frustrating knowing how hard you have to drive it to have fun."

    Now w/ optional Adaptive Chassis Control that changes the damper setting under different situations, no wonder it can handle more competently w/o making the overall ride quality any harder.

    My recommendation is choosing the MkVI Rabbit w/ Adaptive Chassis Control (hopefully will be available here eventually) over the MkV GTI, so you can handle nearly as well as the MkV GTI while still rides like a limo :P
  • hmmm avi would be a better candidate to answer that one. the steering on the mkV's was elctro-mechanical.

    i dunno if i would find a car thats 'too' in control a terrible thing, but its nice to know they made the steering better.

    adaptive chassis control is not listed as anything that will even be available on either the gti or golf, so no limo like shenanigans.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    The Adaptive Chassis Control comes w/ 3 different settings -- firm, medium & soft.

    At least in Europe, the suspension of the Golf w/o the ACC option doesn't come in the soft setting. So you have to chip out enough $ to buy the ACC in order to ride like a limo. These days, I noticed this similar strategy in the US, where the lowest-price C-class Mercedes is forced to include the lowered sport suspension.

    That's right, only the rich deserve to ride in a limo.

    I remembered test driving all the Mazda cars at the 2004 or 2005 Mazda Rev It Up event. None had great steering feel except the Miata. The Mazda6 6-cyl rode & handled worse than the Mazda6 4-cyl. The RX-8 rode limo soft!

    Later, I test drove more RX-8's at the dealers & found only the base model w/ soft suspension & 16" wheels did ride like a limo while the handling was still 'too' in control for me to explore the limit. So, yes, it's a terrible thing. LOL I'd rather drift the '05 Miata w/ LSD (limited-slip differential) all day long!

    So I ended up picking up a Focus ST 2.3 w/ pure hydraulic steering, but neither its ride comfort nor the road holding can match the base RX-8, which unfortunately fishtailed badly in the rain due to RWD & un-availability of stability control!
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