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Mazdaspeed3 vs. VW V GTI vs. Civic Si

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Comments

  • allhorizonallhorizon Posts: 483
    "but my experience with the last gen VW gti doesn't have me confident the car will be tuned like the euro one."

    I don't think lack of Euro tuning was a problem with the previous GTI(s). Except for the RS32, lately they just were heavy with mediocre performance and outdated suspension.

    "Maybe VW is finally willing to give us decent handling again."

    All (international) reviews I have read indicate that the completely redesigned suspension (and finally, independent rear), increased rigidity, and the torquey TFSI make a convincing package.

    Now all I have to decide between is a 4-door GTI (if available in the US), a Golf with the TFSI and sport suspension, or the A3 (if available with quattro and TFSI). I would also seriously consider a 140-170hp TDI.
  • mazda6smazda6s Posts: 1,901
    "Now all I have to decide between is a 4-door GTI (if available in the US), a Golf with the TFSI and sport suspension, or the A3 (if available with quattro and TFSI). I would also seriously consider a 140-170hp TDI."

    Yeah, there will be a 4-door GTI, but it will be the GLI. ;)
  • allhorizonallhorizon Posts: 483
    "Yeah, there will be a 4-door GTI, but it will be the GLI."

    Thank you, but no thank you. I like hatches and wagons. Rumors from a source close to VWoA have it that there will be a 4-door GTI this time in the US (like in Europe) - probably a higher chance than the regular Golf getting the 2.0 TFSI engine as an option.

    A beefy (140-170hp) TDI would be nice, too, especially with AWD.

    I would have to see both of them in person; the GTI looks sharp, but I don't want the boy-racer look. Also, I am concerned with ground clearance where I live, although my daily route with 1/2 the drive through the twisties would make a sport suspension fun.

    This is why the Forester XT (perhaps lowered and with stronger rear sway bar) is also still in the running for me.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    How about this... Who cares about GTI's higher cornering g-force. The Golf/Jetta lost the steering feel since after the MkIII.
    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/u/r0a9f0811324f75a7t/previews/56439/vw_golf_gt_fsi_4motion.ht- ml

    Oops, not sure if it'll make it here.
  • allhorizonallhorizon Posts: 483
    The article you mention tests the non-turbo 2.0 FSI that is currently not available in the US and may never make it here. It also emphasizes the difference between the AWD and non-AWD Golf versions - non of them GTIs.

    FWIW, I have read more than 10 reviews of the new electro-mechanical steering in the A3/ Golf/GTI/Jetta, and have yet to come by one that is not decidedly enthusiastic about it.

    See your nearest Audi/VW dealer for a test drive.
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    You know? Mazda3 has the potential to be the best compact car on the planet. Sure you're going to get nit-wits griping that the brakes arent big enough, or its not snappy enough, or the rearview mirrors are too ugly, or the windshield washers are misplaced. The fact is, for the money, its the best buy, period. I shopped for compacts and this car just took the cake. I compared prices, performance, looks, and economy. Hard to judge reliability on a car that has only been out a month before I bought it. I took a chance. To me, everything else was just average for the same money. The MZ3 struck me as being well above average.

    Now on to the MAZDASPEED3. Mazda has the potential to provide a car that can whipe the street with the competition. I mean the total package. Looks, performance, reliability, economy, safety, you name it. I hope they don't drop the ball here though. The ultimate test for Mazda is to stuff a [non-permissible content removed] ton of horsepower in this car and also design a drive train and suspension to harness it. Thats the key. Straight line, cornering, the whole nine yards. They are going to have to do their homework in order to make it affordable too. I am confident they can get it done. And when they do you can kiss your WRX's (which are the ugliest cars with a Porsche engine on the planet), Golfs, 'yota's, and whatever else good bye.

    I know some of you are saying "there is no market for a pocket rocket" and "Mazda needs to build a solid reputation again before going out on a limb with the Speed3 by focusing on where the markets lie" blah blah blah......Well here is Mazda's chance to break the mold and set trends.

    This car is already setting trends, though. Note the headlight bezels on the new toyota camrys. The front end of the new Acura's (I dont know the models off hand but you can picture them). You get my drift. Wait and see......this is THE next compact.
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    1987 VW Golf GT - 624,000 miles
    1975 VW Scirocco - 250,000 miles

    After how many engine swaps?? My bud owns a jetta. He just puked an engine....and he drives it really gentle like......I dont know for sure but I'm guessing he had under 100K on it. It was cracked up in the nose, he did the cosmetics on it......got it really cheap. Now he knows why.

    Also VW's are just average. Mazda's are above average.
    zoom-zoom
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    I agree with the AWD. I would spring the extra cash for it. I wouldnt care about the extra weight either. The extra horsepower will compensate. Also it depends how drastic Mazda wants to get but things can be done to cut weight. Aftermarket goodies like body panels, etc.

    Bring on the MZ-Speed3!

    zoom-zoom
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    Bottom line: There is more to a "hot hatch" than 0-60 times, horsepower ratings and skidpad ratings - the key to the GTI is its overall balance...

    You dont think Mazda knows this?? We shall see what tomorrow brings. I have a feeling though that the GTI is going to take a back seat to the trend setting MZ3 about to knock the Golf off balance and off the charts...

    Just a side note. I work with a guy who has a VR32 or whatever that GTI Golf clown car is. It pushes 250 Hp with the intake and chip (6 speed manual, 18" dubs, all that jazz and some rear suspension mods). He said in a straight line its pissa' but the RX8 eats it up in the corners (his wife has an RX8). I know, different classes of cars but a testament to Mazda's overall handling characteristics. Also a really short wheelbased Golf with suspension mods should be somewhat comparable to a larger wheelbased RX8, dont 'cha find??
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    The R32 is the last gen GTI.

    The next get one comes with an IRS and it's far lighter than thr MkIV.

    I'm actually quite interested in the GTI 2.0 DSG as it's a sub 3000 lbs car and it's got one of the best engines around (I actually prefer that 2.0 to my 330i's inline 6). And that DSG is sensational. I've only driven an A3 DSG but even that car had me excited and delighted.

    Imagining that same engine on a much lighter, lower, more nimble GTI...yummy. And the tuners out there always can tweak Veedub turbos for more power. Great handling, awesome engine, super gas mileage, uncannily smooth DSG and of course an exceptional VW cockpit all grab my attention.

    We'll see what the info is coming out for the Mazdaspeed3. I'm not totally sold on the interior v. VW. And the engine and its economy worry me too as my Protege ES Mt5) can slurp gas when I'm really flogging the little beast. On the flip side, mazdas are bulletproof (in my 15 years of experience with them) and VWs are prone to major breakdowns (experience and the record).

    I won't declare one has me over the other but I must say on paper the DSG equipped GTI has me more interested now. Reliability be damned.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "He said in a straight line its pissa' but the RX8 eats it up in the corners (his wife has an RX8). I know, different classes of cars but a testament to Mazda's overall handling characteristics. Also a really short wheelbased Golf with suspension mods should be somewhat comparable to a larger wheelbased RX8, dont 'cha find??"

    No way! After being educated by the "all you can test drive" in the two MazdaRevItUp events, I'd stay away from heavy front overhang, especially Audi designs & even the 6-cyl Mazda6. You'll be surprised how the light-nose RX-8 beats even the Beemer in ride/handling compromise. Go test drive a base 16"-wheel RX-8 automatic. It'll leave you scratching your head & wonder, "Why does it ride smoother over bumps than the 3i & still out handle the 3S by a huge margin?"

    If Ford can adopt the Volvo platform for the Five Hundred, then the RX-8 chassis should be donated as Ford/Mazda's next Lexus-IS-&-Beemer-beater roomy sedan. So far, only the next Miata shares that chassis.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    1975 Scirocco - Original engine
    1987 Golf GT - 1 engine/transmission swap at 429,000 miles.

    Any questions?

    Contrary to the majority of drivers today - I actually MAINTAIN my vehicle. All of these drivers in their "tuned" cars know everything about adding on the latest turbos, suspensions, spoilers, etc., but know little about properly maintaining their cars for the long haul.

    Drive whatever you want, dude - and have fun with your zoom-zoom. All I know is I have the background and experience (in mechanics and engineering) to make your own car last longer than the average driver will . My record speaks for itself (4 cars in 25+ years of driving)... :shades:

    B.T.W. - I left the "my car is better than your car" argument back in the schoolyard many years ago.... What may be good for me may not be good for you - and vice-versa.

    Enjoy!
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    If Ford/Mazda/Volvo is building cars for the European market, they will also have to comply with the new regulations concerning pedestrian-friendly car design - which means we may be seeing a lot more long-nosed car designs in the future - unfortunately... :(
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    It'll leave you scratching your head & wonder, "Why does it ride smoother over bumps than the 3i & still out handle the 3S by a huge margin?"

    Again, as I said before, a testament to Mazda's handling charactaristics.

    Also I would hardly call a Golf heavy. You brought up Audi, I was talking VW Jiblets.
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    buying their car during their first one or two years of production. By doing so, these unfortunate people have volunteered to become beta testers for the automotive industry

    Thats what warantees are for Einstein. If it pukes, they'll fix it.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "If Ford/Mazda/Volvo is building cars for the European market, they will also have to comply with the new regulations concerning pedestrian-friendly car design - which means we may be seeing a lot more long-nosed car designs in the future - unfortunately..."

    Long nose, yes, but the nose will be empty & "airbag" light, so won't hurt the handling. Check out my profile & see why my empty rear overhang (spare tire located far forward) allows each oversteer be brought back instantly.

    /WebX?viewUserProfile@@.ef6c2da/45!vuserName=creakid1
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    " 'It'll leave you scratching your head & wonder, "Why does it ride smoother over bumps than the 3i & still out handle the 3S by a huge margin?" '

    Again, as I said before, a testament to Mazda's handling charactaristics."

    I was saying FWD cars usually need to place the engine-weight ahead of the front axle in order to keep the traction when going up hill on slippery surface, hence hurts the handling. So neither the Golf nor the Mazda3 can match a RWD RX-8's handling, especially w/ a light rotary located way aft. Why do you think the RX-8 has to drive the rear wheels? Obviously its weak-toque engine can't jack-rabbit launch the car forward w/ the rear wheels spinning.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    >Thats what warantees are for Einstein. If it pukes, they'll fix it.

    What's with the personal attacks and arrogance? I'm trying to participate in a mature, rational dialogue, and you resort to personal attacks. If you want to have a discussion like an adult, then I'll be more than happy to continue. If not, then I don't see any point in continuing the discussion...

    Enjoy feeding your ego with your Mazda, dude...
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    Ah, a Mk1 1984 Jetta - reminds me of the good old days of my 1975 Mk1 Scirocco.

    Can you imagine dropping a heavily modded 16v engine or 1.8T in a 1800lb chassis would do for its performance? The car would go as if it were shot out of a cannon. :shades: :shades: :shades:
  • biggus3biggus3 Posts: 32
    Not to get off subject, but I think you need to take it easy. This is a comparison discussion that is bound to have conflicting opinions. There are a lot of people here who are really into their particular vehicle, Mazda or VW. That is bound to lead to controversy/argument. You can take your moral high ground, but if you cant take a little heat please avoid belittling those below you who dont mind a little friendly bickering.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    Agreed. But there is a BIG difference between a friendly discussion/argument and a personal attack - especially when said poster doesn't even know me. Now tell me if this isn't an example of a personal attack:

    >Thats what warantees are for Einstein. If it pukes, they'll fix it.

    As far as the taking it easy comment, your intentions are good, but your comments are pointed in the wrong direction.

    BTW - As a military veteran who has been in more than his share of hotspots, I know a little something about taking heat... And believe me, when push comes to shove, I can dish out a hell of a lot of heat. But I prefer not to. There's enough conflict going on in the world as it is...

    Believe me, I would much rather spend my time using my 20+ years of experience with cars (especially VWs) to help people than to take potshots at them.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Let's compare the vehicles - agree to disagree when needed and remain civil.

    Thanks!
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    I have never owned a VW - so I can't comment about them - but Mazda does not stand behind their cars - they in fact do not honor their warranty.

    My car has been puking its guts out for over a year - more than 12 trips into the dealership for (what should be) warranty problems.

    But my brakes still make loud grinding noises when I stop, my AC system is still a defective piece of junk, loud thumping sounds are still coming from my front end when I hit little bumps in the road - all normal conditions according to Mazda.

    A warranty is only as good as the company that is standing behind it - and in Mazda's case - that is not very good.
  • mdaffronmdaffron Posts: 4,421
    Let's agree to disagree. Bill has gotten himself a lemon, and he is one of the few. I own a 2005 Mazda3 5-door and the a/c is flawless, my brakes do not grind, there are no strange thumping noises, etc. And most of the owners over on the Mazda3 Problems & Solutions discussion have told Bill the same story.

    Also, I owned a Mazda B2300 pickup truck back in the late '90s and Mazda helped me immensely when that truck's engine went south about two years into ownership.

    As always, people's mileage varies on this subject. But I don't think a blanket "Mazda does not stand behind their cars" is fair here. I'm 40 years old and unless I was just plain stupid, I would not have just purchased my sixth new Mazda vehicle if Bill's allegations were true across-the-board.

    Meade
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Posts: 6,257
    My car has been puking its guts out for over a year - more than 12 trips into the dealership for (what should be) warranty problems.

    Go to a different dealer.

    But my brakes still make loud grinding noises when I stop, my AC system is still a defective piece of junk, loud thumping sounds are still coming from my front end when I hit little bumps in the road - all normal conditions according to Mazda.

    Bummer.

    A warranty is only as good as the company that is standing behind it - and in Mazda's case - that is not very good.

    Owned mazdas for 15 years. Never had an issue. Luck of the draw?

    Owned VW, had major issues. Still I'll consider going back to VW. I'm used to German cars being poorly engineered. Just the normal facts of life.
  • curiousgcuriousg Posts: 2
    The R32 has a completely different rear suspension that the Mk IV - it too is independant. That is one of the reasons (plus AWD) that the R32 is WAY better handling car than other Mk IV Golfs/Jettas
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    Why is Einstein such a personal attack?? He was a real fart smella'....er I mean smart fella'

    I thought that arguement didn't make any sense thats all. Neither does keeping a car for nine hundred million miles.....Hint: Let the clown car go dude.....take a snapshot of the odometer and stick it to your fridge or something.

    Me.....I'll always have a relatively new car after buying new which means I'l l probubly always have payments....but hey, you can't take it with you when you're dead (the money that is). So I'm going to drive a drivers car and yes feed my ego. I'll leave the VWs to those who settle for average.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Let's keep the discussion on the vehicles and not get caught up in the personal barbs. We aren't discussing Einstein here.

    Keep it civil, agree to disagree and move on.

    If anyone has issues with another member's behavior, please take it up with me in email and do not derail the conversation here.

    Thanks!
  • mz3bmz3b Posts: 13
    Owned VW, had major issues. Still I'll consider going back to VW.

    WOW......now thats a devoted VW enthusiest. I used to drive fords. Growing up I had a mustang, bronco, and a pickup. At about 40k miles the small block v8's started either burning or leaking something (usually oil). That got old fast! Granted they were strong running engines and the mustang was fast but that kind of agrivation is not what I want in a vehicle. I then had a Nissan pick up with the SE V6. 160K miles and didnt burn or leak a drop of anything. I was sold from there. Now I got an 04 Mz3 and I probubly wont go back to american cars even though Ford has a hand in the Mz3. The engine and drive train is all Mazda and what a job they did on the gear box too. The truth is American cars blow. Even the new caddies are cheaply made (I know I used to detail them for a limosine company). Its actually pretty pathetic. Though maybe one day I will have a classic American muscle car or street rod to call my own.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    I'll get rid of my clown car as soon as you get rid of your girlie man chick mobile. :shades:

    For the record, I got rid of my Golf long ago (after I left the military - fortunately in one piece given some of the hotspots I had to serve in). I decided to grow up and now own two Jettas (2003 Wolfsburg, 1997 Trek), and a 2003 Passat. I'll leave the "live fast, die young make a pretty corpse" type driving to you and others like you... :shades: :sick:
This discussion has been closed.