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Audi RS4

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Comments

  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Will there really be a C63? I was surprised that Mercedes-Benz went the S4 way and put out the C55, but I'd be amazed at their engineers shoehorning that beautiful engine into their smallest-U.S. spec model.

    Mercedes never stops... the next C AMG model ('09) will be the C75 at this rate! Stop them before the car blows up!!!

    :P

    I'd like to see Audi put the Lamborghini Gallardo's V10, which is smaller than the C55's V8, in the next RS4... how much of a splash that would make!
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Will there really be a C63? I was surprised that Mercedes-Benz went the S4 way and put out the C55, but I'd be amazed at their engineers shoehorning that beautiful engine into their smallest-U.S. spec model.

    Of course there will be a C63 and a SLK63. The new 6.2L V8 is the AMG V8 of record from now on just like the 5.5L V8 was. There will be a turbocharged version for the SL/CL/S63 models, rumored to be a 571hp firebreather!

    Yeah the V10 is coming in fashion big time now with both BMW and Audi using them in their mid-level cars like the M5 and S6. A V10 in the next generation RS4 might not be out of the question, if they can get it to fit.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yes in the next RS4 it actually could be possible- they could do the same thing they did with the V8.

    Or they could just make the V10 smaller- 5.0ish - and bring out about 500hp. After all, there was a 45 horsepower increase from the last RS4- it's only natural that Audi adds 80 to this one!

    Do you know what I despise about magazines' tests of the new S6? They always talk about how much less powerful it is than the M5- and they don't even let the reader know about the RS6! However, the magazines do talk about how sweet sounding the engine is, the gorgeous interior, and the fabulous styling details (LEDs on the bumpers, cool wheels, etc).

    Imagine the horsepower war of '08: BMW M5 (507hp) vs. Mercedes-Benz E63 AMG (513hp) vs. Audi RS6 (550hp). It makes no difference that the Audi has more power, or the Mercedes has a much bigger V8 than the others' V10, or that the BMW is only currently available with SMG- they all balance out in the end, and are equally good.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Do you know what I despise about magazines' tests of the new S6? They always talk about how much less powerful it is than the M5- and they don't even let the reader know about the RS6!

    Well that is because there has nothing official about an RS6, only speculation and rumor.

    M
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    I haven't heard anything official myself. It would be great if Audi made it but I wonder if their dollars aren't better spent on the R8, Le mans or whatever they are calling that super car of theirs. At any rate, I sure will be jealous of whoever is driving one of the new RS4's They seem to be bad a**
  • rjlaerorjlaero Posts: 659
    But concerning the M5's SMG, I've read that in order to get those low 0-60's numbers, you have to put your car in "launch mode". It isn't too convienent for every day driving when you just want to stomp on the gas at a red light and be gone. I guess a 6 speed M5 will solve that problem.

    I hope Audi makes a DSG RS4 down the road.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    True which is one of the knocks against the way the M5 is currently set up, too complicated for some to the point that it ruins the fun.

    I'm just waiting for Audi to put that brilliant DSG box in anything but 4 bangers and the TT! A DSG S or RS car of any type would be awesome.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yes that would be remarkable- and would probably propel the RS4 to 60 in under 4.5 seconds.

    What a car you could get for $66,000... if the RS4 came with DSG, it would be jack-of-all-trades!

    1. Make your morning romp to work, play cat-and-mouse with a few BMWs

    2. Impress the boss with its gorgeous, high-tech interior

    3. Drag with that Firebird that always gives you the eye

    4. Tomorrow, take a road trip... without the kids ;)

    5. Start your day over again

    Off topic:

    There's an '00 SL500 in silver in a parking lot across the street... it still is mighty pretty, especially with the sun shining on it. This one has its top down, and it actually may be an AMG because it has the bodykit and wheels.

    My wife has just fallen in love with the E350 4Matic, merc. My son recommends dark green, with the AMG package- but we're not getting a new car until January, when it will be revised.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    My wife has just fallen in love with the E350 4Matic, merc. My son recommends dark green, with the AMG package- but we're not getting a new car until January, when it will be revised.

    :D

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I know you posted this awhile ago, but still...

    It irritates me that Audi is so slow with RS introductions. If they had brought out the RS4 a year earlier, it would've been at the sweet spot- a guarantee to the crown for two, or even three years. The next RS6 is also overdue to come out- does it really take that long for Audi to turbo charge the S6/S8's V10 and slap on a bodykit/sporty interior? If Mercedes-Benz can come out with a new AMG model every five seconds, Audi should be the same way- but not for all of its models. Mercedes-Benz wrings out the exclusivity of AMG because of its availability on every model in their lineup.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    because Audi is a fairly small company compared to Mercedes? Meaning much more money for assembly line etc?
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm not sure why it takes them nearly until the end of a model's production run to bring out the RS version but it is what it is. Even the S versions are a bit slow to come to market. That might be their way of keeping them special or exclusive?? There are some that think Audi wastes time and resources with both an S and RS version of the same car.

    While MB does offer an AMG model for nearly everything in their lineup (except the new GL) they're now getting a truly exclusive engine in the form of the new 6.2L V8. A showpiece of an engine for sho.

    M
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    for those that think it's a waste of time, I think Audi needs these "halo" cars to keep the public informed of how dominating Audi is on the track. Granted I wish weight distribution was better but I think this is going to be addressed with the next body style A4/S4.
    I do think it creates some air of mystery not coming very often. The AMG line is a little over saturated IMO [Don't mean to stir up the Merc volcano :P ]
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yes the new AMG "63" cars are definitely worth boasting about- imagine what AMG could do with a supercharger! In fact, I was reading the latest Autoweek, and they had an article dedicated to the new engine.

    It was mainly a test of the CLK63 AMG, but it had a picture of the most recent AMG cars together, and had a short test of the new S65. Basically, they said it was the best engine to come from Mercedes-Benz in a long time.

    However, merc... remember our original argument, where I stated that the new CLK AMG would be overpriced next to the RS4? And it would be over $90,000? Here is a direct quote from the article: "The CLK [63 AMG] Cabrio arrives in July (expect a substantial price increase over the existing model's $83,275)..." (18). I hate to say I told you so!

    :P
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Yes I completely agree with you- it adds to the exclusivity tremendously.

    It would kill me if Audi offered an "RS" version of every model, but "S" versions are acceptable- they're for people who want to cruise, like myself, but still push their cars. The S4 Cabriolet is truly a pleasure, and I get so many looks on the road. Over a year with the Sprint Blue color, and it's still the coolest color I've seen on the street in a long time. Pictures don't do justice- you'd have to see my car in person!

    However, I believe it is necessary to not wait three years to release high-performance models. I still don't want every car to have an "RS" version and for them all to come out at the exact same time (hint: AMG), but they should at least come out a year before they are currently scheduled to. Also, I don't believe a Q7 RS is necessary or appropriate for Audi at the moment- no one's going to buy the ML 63 or Cayenne Turbo S anyway! A Q7 S with the RS4's V8 would be more than enough, or possibly they could stuff in the S8's V10 with identical power to the sedan. (Audi has noted that they can easily fit the Lamborghini V10 in the Q7)

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330

    Coming soon... a replacement for the RX330 (January 2007 most likely).
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yeah I got that issue of Autoweek today as a matter of fact.

    Lets see how much the price goes up first and secondly the CLK63 is a Cabriolet the RS4 is a sedan they aren't exactly direct competitors and the CLK63 is getting a new engine and according to AMG's website the same suspension (ABC) from the SL55 and other similar high-end Mercs.

    Also part of your original argument was that Mercedes tried to hard and that was nonsense as all the coverage of the newest AMG Benzes proves.

    Supercharging is out for the new V8, but it will be turbocharged to the tune of 570hp and 700hp according to CAR magazine.

    Guy you're dreaming if you think no one is going to buy the Cayenne Turbo S or ML63 AMG.

    I agree to a point that AMG has a lot of models, but the only one I don't really see the point of is the R63. Mercedes just happens to have more models than Audi does so why should they be held back to only making performance versions of the ones that have direct competition from Audi or BMW? They shouldn't.

    M
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    defiantly put out as many AMG models as they want. Their rights aren't in dispute. My opinion is that it dilutes the badge to a degree. To me, the M, and S, and more so the RS are more exclusive because they are seen less than AMG models. At least that's the case here in Houston IMO.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well that might just be the price of success...and with their cars getting more and more serious now with AMG specific engines and some upcoming "track sport" versions of certain models the AMG brand will only get stronger. Audi's RS/S may have a great image to those who know about them, but they need to get an imagine that most car folks can readily identify before worry about exclusivity. They've only had one RS model until now and the S models are pretty tame next to most AMG and Motorsport models.

    Audis aren't exclusive by choice, low sales make them exclusive. I don't think it would ruin the S/RS image if they came out with more models. They have a RS4, a RS6 is rumored and some even say a RS8 is coming. They may even do a "S" version of the Q7 if not an RS version.

    It wouldn't hurt Audi if they came out with the RS model before the next to last model year for the car its based on either.

    Just going by what you see doesn't always jive with the sales numbers because BMW is currently selling a boatload of M5s. Their Motorsport division build a good deal of cars per year also not sure if its more than AMG. AMG models also tend to cost a great deal more than any M/S/RS model once you get past the 100K level. BMW and Audi have nothing in that exclusive space.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    1. RS has been out since 1992- the original model was the RS2 Avant, with about 350hp. There has been only one RS model in America.

    2. Also in America- low sales. If you check into any place else in the world, I guarantee you that you would see more A4s, A6s and A8s than competing Mercedes-Benz or BMW models- especially in Germany.

    3. The new Audi R8 will be over $100,000 according to Audi- and it will kick any AMG 63 Mercedes! However, there is no Mercedes-Benz that is the R8's direct competition. The estimated $115,000 R8 V10 will compete with the $176,000 911 Turbo- which weighs more and costs much more. Seems as if Audi is stabbing its parent in the back! It should get Audi a great amount of attention from America especially. The base 4.2 V8 version, good for at least 430hp, will come to dealers in mid-2007.

    4. There is absolutely no way in hell that M produces more than AMG- they have about ten less models. Right now, M has four models- M Roadster/Coupe, M3, M5, M6. AMG has an AMG C, CL, CLK, CLS, E, G, GL in the works, M, R, S, SL, SLK. 12 models. M can't touch that- but, like dhamilton said, AMG is diluting itself, no matter how amazing the engines are (which they are).

    Currently, there is one "S" model, one "RS" model, and an upcoming "R" model in America- three high-performance models. The RS6 is coming soon, along with the S6 and S8, but the "S" models aren't very much competitors to the Ms and AMGs, as you said. That spot is reserved for RS and R.
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    One more thing...

    I was implying that the CLK63 AMG will be more expensive than the RS4 Cabriolet- its only real competition. They both have supremely powerful V8s, four seats, gorgeous interiors (although one has questionable quality) and tons of curb appeal. If the looks I get in my "lowly" S4 Cabriolet are something to go by, the RS4 would get at least as many looks as the Mercedes- again, it's also rare, while V8 CLKs (including CLK 500s) are almost commonplace. (I'm not saying the A4 Cabriolet isn't popular- it is)

    Estimating from the RS4 sedan's $66,000 asking price, the RS4 Cabriolet will be... $72,000 (in euros). Therefore, it will be $10,000 less than the current CLK55 AMG- a true bargain. Also, my guestimate is justified. The S4 sedan starts at $48,000, and the S4 Cabriolet starts at $54,000, a $6,000 difference.

    Just to let you know!
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    What you said makes a lot of sense, However the main point in my mind is, when I see an AMG badge I think cool. When I see an RS badge I pull over to look it over. I've only seen one RS ever and it was a CPO'd RS6. The S,RS make my neck snap. [Some of that is the Audi fan in me.] But mostly it's because it's rare.
    The very fact that Mercedes is vey succesful also means that they lose some mystery. BTW, can any AMG be had with a stick?
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I'm sure your question was rhetorical- but no, no AMG car can currently be ordered with a manual. I'm not sure if the new SL65 will have one, but I do know that the new AMG 63 models all have 7-speed automatics (re-developed by AMG), and the rest have 5-Speeds... shame.

    Also, all Audi S and RS models have standard manual transmissions. Although the RS6 had a 5-Speed auto, the RS6 is obviously out of production- and the next one will most likely have a 7-Speed auto. Maybe, if we're lucky, Audi will have developed the 7-Speed DSG rumored for their higher-end cars, and it'll be in the new RS6!

    Just a side note: I went to a gas station about twenty minutes ago. When I pulled up with my son in the S4, all eyes went to my car :blush:. There was a black CLK 500 (AMG package) coupe in there... not one look. It is unfair that my car had such an amazing color, and the Mercedes was in Funeral Black (at least that's what I call it). I must say, though, that all AMGs look great in black- especially the mouth watering (and eye-wateringly pricey) SL AMG!
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 873
    I did see an SLR Mclaren today in river oaks [fancy old money suburb in Houston.] This did make my head snap. This is the second time I've seen this one. I've heard it belongs to the wife of Astros pitcher Roger Clemons. Again...neck snapping
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    1. RS has been out since 1992- the original model was the RS2 Avant, with about 350hp. There has been only one
    RS model in America.


    Stated this in a previous post about there only being one RS model in America so far, whats the point of repeating it?

    Also in America- low sales. If you check into any place else in the world, I guarantee you that you would see more A4s, A6s and A8s than competing Mercedes-Benz or BMW models- especially in Germany.

    Again, irrelevant, we live in America...you know the place where Audi doesn't sell half as many cars as BMW or Mercedes. Secondly like I said earlier what you "see" doesn't mean squat, you have to check the sales numbers and uh...they say that Audi does not outsell BMW and Mercedes overall. The A8 in particular doesn't outsell e the S-Class in any market regardless of what you think you "see". Look up the numbers and quit dealing in fantasy.

    The new Audi R8 will be over $100,000 according to Audi- and it will kick any AMG 63 Mercedes! However, there is no Mercedes-Benz that is the R8's direct competition. The estimated $115,000 R8 V10 will compete with the $176,000 911 Turbo- which weighs more and costs much more. Seems as if Audi is stabbing its parent in the back! It should get Audi a great amount of attention from America especially. The base 4.2 V8 version, good for at least 430hp, will come to dealers in mid-2007.

    Isn't it wonderful to be able to base so much on guesswork. Wait until the car gets here and then talk. Until you know the specs for the R8 you don't know much if anything about what it will do or compete with. Porsche is not Audi's parent either.

    There is absolutely no way in hell that M produces more than AMG- they have about ten less models. Right now, M has four models- M Roadster/Coupe, M3, M5, M6. AMG has an AMG C, CL, CLK, CLS, E, G, GL in the works, M, R, S, SL, SLK. 12 models. M can't touch that- but, like dhamilton said, AMG is diluting itself, no matter how amazing the engines are (which they are).

    Did you actually read what I said? I said that M produces a lot of vehicles also. I did not say they produce more than AMG. Pay attention. My point was that worldwide they have nearly the same market penetration that AMG has. BMW sells a lot of M3s, many more than Mercedes does C55s or CLK55s. BMW's M models are all under or right at 100K and Mercedes has at least a 1/2 dozen that are at 100K or far more than 100K. You'd do better by looking up their worldwide numbers first, I bet they're a lot closer than you think. I bet that for S/CL/SL AMG model sold there are far more M3s sold thus likely balancing out their numbers and putting them a lot closer than you think since AMG is so diluted to you.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I was implying that the CLK63 AMG will be more expensive than the RS4 Cabriolet- its only real competition. They both have supremely powerful V8s, four seats, gorgeous interiors (although one has questionable quality) and tons of curb appeal. If the looks I get in my "lowly" S4 Cabriolet are something to go by, the RS4 would get at least as many looks as the Mercedes- again, it's also rare, while V8 CLKs (including CLK 500s) are almost commonplace. (I'm not saying the A4 Cabriolet isn't popular- it is)

    There is no RS4 Cabrio coming here so guesses are just that as to how much it would cost, its matterless. The CLK63's V8 stomps the RS4's V8 anyway so you pay more you get more in that sense.

    Now your statement about the CLK500 is just plain silly because you're trying to blame Mercedes for being able to own a large piece of lucrative market that isn't Mercedes' fault they have a lock on the 4-seat Cabrio market while Audi struggles to move even 1000 Cabrios a month. What would you like Mercedes to do, stop the sales increase the CLK is currently having?

    There is nothing lowly about the S4 Cabriolet, awesome vehicle.

    Estimating from the RS4 sedan's $66,000 asking price, the RS4 Cabriolet will be... $72,000 (in euros). Therefore, it will be $10,000 less than the current CLK55 AMG- a true bargain. Also, my guestimate is justified. The S4 sedan starts at $48,000, and the S4 Cabriolet starts at $54,000, a $6,000 difference.

    Estimate, guesstimate...all the same...doesn't matter nothing is justified when the RS4 isn't coming here. You don't know what it would cost here.

    M
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I see what you're saying but I think this about AMG being diluted is very easy to say while Audi doesn't move the nearly the volume. Lets see what happens if Audi every gets to the same level with their S/RS cars as AMG and Motorsport when it comes to popularity.

    Neither of you guys seems to realize that I'm a huge Audi fan and understand fully the interest in seeing an Audi RS model.

    No AMG models can be had with a stickshift.

    There is no market or point of a stick shift in a AMG S/CL/SL. People that buy those cars don't want to row their own gears. The only AMG cars that really should get a stick are the SLK55, CLK63 (maybe) and C55 (definitely), not a S-Class or SL. Now a DSG style gearbox would be nice in a SL or CLS or E I guess, but that is some time off. The only Audi S/RS cars that have one are the A4 based models not the S6, RS6 or S8 so it isn't as if Audi some type of manual tranny believer either like some would have you believe or try to imply with what Audi will do.

    M
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    Stated this in a previous post about there only being one RS model in America so far, whats the point of repeating it?

    Ummm... okay, think what you want. You never mentioned that there was one RS model in America- you just stated that there has been one RS model. Period.

    Motorsport, by the way, does not produce a lot of cars as you stated- for some reason, I haven't seen an M3 in awhile. Not to say I see AMGs every day- but I definitely am more impressed when I see an RS or S Audi then seeing an AMG Mercedes-Benz.

    Completely off topic: it's a bit sad how Lexus is America's most popular luxury manufacturer. There are just too many Lexuses!!! My wife and I were at a stop light in the RX, and there was an ES in front of us, an RX300 beside us, and an LS430 behind us. At that very light, an LX470 drove by. Although I still love the LX for some reason, and never get tired of seeing them, it would be nice if the RX and ES weren't quite so commonplace- although they deserve to be.

    Another off-topic: merc, read my post in the E-Class room. I read the Insideline article, and was so impressed that I was almost prompted to put down a deposit on the E350 4Matic with the Sport Package and AirMatic suspension.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX 330
  • esfesf Posts: 1,020
    I'll bet you some people in the AMG CLs, SLs and S-Classes do want to row their own gears- in the ultimate luxury. A small minority of them, at least.

    By the way, I didn't just do "guesswork" for the specs on the new Audi R8. Plenty of the specs have been released- not guessed -in the latest magazines. I know the R8 will have an aluminum spaceframe, quattro AWD, and an optional V10; I know what it will look like, and I know it will have a relatively luxurious interior- Audi never lets us down in that respect.

    '06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX 330
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