Mystery car pix

ab348

Not to my knowledge

omarman

stickguy

Ford LTD country squire. 1974?

ab348

Wouldn't be a '74 as they didn't get hidden headlamps until '75. But they didn't change much between '75 and '78 in terms of exterior design/trim so it's hard to pinpoint an exact year.

omarman

Just came across that pic yesterday of a 1978 Ford LTD Country Squire.

omarman

I went looking for some interior pics of a Country Squire battleship and found this one sold on BaT.

ab348

Last few 50 year-old B&W pics of Toronto. This first one is of a university parking lot, which may explain a couple of the funny furrin cars:



Another one coming up in a bit.

magnette

That is an Imperial Crown - 1968.
The VW type 4 was a 411 here
To the left of shot is a 63 Chevrolet (Bel Air or Biscayne?) but beyond that is a Vauxhall HB - we called it the Viva but I think you had it as the Epic

omarman

Might be a '62 Impala from looking at the grill and turn signals.

texases

Citroen DS by the building

ab348

magnette said:

That is an Imperial Crown - 1968.

I figured that belonged to the Chancellor of the university.

The VW type 4 was a 411 here

Same here. I remember going on a test drive of one with dad around 1970. Within the first block, he hated it.

To the left of shot is a 63 Chevrolet (Bel Air or Biscayne?) but beyond that is a Vauxhall HB - we called it the Viva but I think you had it as the Epic

Depends on what dealer group sold it. Chevy dealers had them branded as Envoy Epics, while Pontiac dealers had them as Vauxhall Vivas.

fintail

Several cars to the right of the Citroen, apparently at the end of the cars parked next to the building, I see a Cortina.

stickguy

we got the VW as a 411, then a 412. Not sure the difference, I assume just an updated version. that one has the 411 nose.

Ubiquitous Falcon (about a '65) 2 door.

and top left, a fastback 2 door Dart/Valiant.

Lostwrench3

Sorry guys, that is not a 1968 Imperial.
It is a 1967 Chrysler New Yorker.

fintail

Olympia WA, 1984 (those "arch top" Safeways were everywhere here back in the day):



(click 'n zoom etc)

omarman

Fiero on the left.

Michaell

fintail said:

Olympia WA, 1984 (those "arch top" Safeways were everywhere here back in the day):



(click 'n zoom etc)

We had one in my home town in SoCal, too

stickguy

compact mercedes hiding in front of a 60s vintage Chevy PU. And far right, a Kennedy Continental. Right behind a later vintage Pinto.

Michaell

I'll take the Corona wagon in front of the Pinto.

Fiero on the far left.

ab348

Last of the old Toronto "demolished building site becomes a parking lot" B&W pics for now. Among other things, this one has a rarely seen vehicle that could only be found in the wild for a short time.

andys120

I see a nice MG-B GT just past the person in black.

stickguy

'68 Camaro on the end, and a Datsun 510 in the center. and a Porsche 365 convertible of some sort in the 2nd row next to the nose of a dark Pancho.

is the oddball on the end next to the Camaro? looks British Ford to me so I always guess Cortina!

sda

Vauxhall next to the Camaro. The Cutlass next to the 510, is it a 4 dr hardtop? I can’t get a clear view but think I see a front vent window and don’t see a center post. The 2 dr hardtops didn’t have the front vent window.

fintail

A couple cars to the left of the 510 looks like maybe a VW Notchback (definitely a Type 3 anyway), and next to it, a basic looking 68 Ford 2 door post.

I assume the rare car is a Canadian spec Firenza, I don't believe those were ever offered in Murka.

ab348

fintail said:

I assume the rare car is a Canadian spec Firenza, I don't believe those were ever offered in Murka.

Yes, I was waiting for @magnette to weigh in on that, as I don't know what their reputation was in their homeland. But here in Canada, they made quite a poor impression. This article from a now-defunct website was captured by the Internet Archive and is well done in documenting how its reputation quickly went down the drain, and how early-'70s GM Canada was arrogant and slow in doing anything for the poor souls who bought one here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630080921/http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/features/the-firenza-fiasco-is-the-canadian-nader-corvair-affair-you-never-heard-about

fintail

Interesting read. Have you ever seen a Firenza in this century? I don't think they are half bad looking, but seems they turned out to be even worse than the Vega, like the British took it as a challenge.

Maybe a few to ID here, and interesting because of the bridge. This is the old Lake Washington/I90 bridge - weird design that apparently led to many crashes, and I believe this weird bulge part was removed before the bridge eventually failed:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Yes, I was waiting for @magnette to weigh in on that, as I don't know what their reputation was in their homeland. But here in Canada, they made quite a poor impression. This article from a now-defunct website was captured by the Internet Archive and is well done in documenting how its reputation quickly went down the drain, and how early-'70s GM Canada was arrogant and slow in doing anything for the poor souls who bought one here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630080921/http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/features/the-firenza-fiasco-is-the-canadian-nader-corvair-affair-you-never-heard-about

ab348

fintail said:

Interesting read. Have you ever seen a Firenza in this century? I don't think they are half bad looking, but seems they turned out to be even worse than the Vega, like the British took it as a challenge.

I can’t remember the last time I saw one here. Probably ’74 or ‘75. They totally vanished. I agree that the styling was well done. The wagon and the sports coupe looked especially good. I am curious if they fared better in Europe where there were service and parts networks to support them, which seemed not the case here. I do recall hearing that parts availability was a constant problem.

fintail

Yeah, that two door semi-fastback wagon is interesting, and the coupe is pretty too.

Seems crazy to me that a line of cars was imported for a small market while not being offered in a market 10x the size right next door, at least the UK import attempts a decade or two earlier had at least some US distribution. Some high level GM suit's pet project, perhaps.

ab348 said:

I can’t remember the last time I saw one here. Probably ’74 or ‘75. They totally vanished. I agree that the styling was well done. The wagon and the sports coupe looked especially good. I am curious if they fared better in Europe where there were service and parts networks to support them, which seemed not the case here. I do recall hearing that parts availability was a constant problem.

sda

I thought the Vauxhall Firenza was a nice looking car with the front grille reflecting a little Pontiac influence. Too bad they were so problematic. With such a poor history someone at Olds should have had their ears boxed for naming the divisions J-car Firenza.

fintail

My uncle had an Olds Firenza sedan for awhile, not sure what happened to it. It was high option with power options and wheels. I remember it was silver with a dark red (I think) interior. One year he visited at Christmas, and the driveway was crowded/blocked, so my mom took it to the store, and I went with her. I sat in the car while she was shopping, running the heat and playing the radio etc. I drained the battery enough to make the car not start, and it had to be jumped. I remember trying to act surprised, "I don't know what happened". Been years since I've seen one.

sda said:

I thought the Vauxhall Firenza was a nice looking car with the front grille reflecting a little Pontiac influence. Too bad they were so problematic. With such a poor history someone at Olds should have had their ears boxed for naming the divisions J-car Firenza.

Michaell

fintail said:

My uncle had an Olds Firenza sedan for awhile, not sure what happened to it. It was high option with power options and wheels. I remember it was silver with a dark red (I think) interior. One year he visited at Christmas, and the driveway was crowded/blocked, so my mom took it to the store, and I went with her. I sat in the car while she was shopping, running the heat and playing the radio etc. I drained the battery enough to make the car not start, and it had to be jumped. I remember trying to act surprised, "I don't know what happened". Been years since I've seen one.

sda said:

I thought the Vauxhall Firenza was a nice looking car with the front grille reflecting a little Pontiac influence. Too bad they were so problematic. With such a poor history someone at Olds should have had their ears boxed for naming the divisions J-car Firenza.

Didn't the Sandra Locke character in the Dirty Harry movie Sudden Impact drive a Firenza?

fintail

Haven't seen that one in ages, but indeed you're right, and a fastback no less:



When I was a youngster, the mother of a best friend had a Cavalier in that style, a white "Type 10", with a sunroof, which at the time seemed cool.

Michaell said:

Didn't the Sandra Locke character in the Dirty Harry movie Sudden Impact drive a Firenza?

tmart

fintail said:

Interesting read. Have you ever seen a Firenza in this century? I don't think they are half bad looking, but seems they turned out to be even worse than the Vega, like the British took it as a challenge.

Maybe a few to ID here, and interesting because of the bridge. This is the old Lake Washington/I90 bridge - weird design that apparently led to many crashes, and I believe this weird bulge part was removed before the bridge eventually failed:

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Yes, I was waiting for @magnette to weigh in on that, as I don't know what their reputation was in their homeland. But here in Canada, they made quite a poor impression. This article from a now-defunct website was captured by the Internet Archive and is well done in documenting how its reputation quickly went down the drain, and how early-'70s GM Canada was arrogant and slow in doing anything for the poor souls who bought one here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630080921/http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/features/the-firenza-fiasco-is-the-canadian-nader-corvair-affair-you-never-heard-about

56 and 57 Ford.

Michaell

fintail said:

Haven't seen that one in ages, but indeed you're right, and a fastback no less:



When I was a youngster, the mother of a best friend had a Cavalier in that style, a white "Type 10", with a sunroof, which at the time seemed cool.

Michaell said:

Didn't the Sandra Locke character in the Dirty Harry movie Sudden Impact drive a Firenza?

And yet my wife gripes at me when I don't remember to do mundane chores around the house.

Why I remember stuff like this is beyond me.

ab348

I wonder if the Olds version earned the sobriquet "fair-weather Firenza" like the Vauxhall version did for its failure to run in poor weather.

ab348

This is a Toronto street scene shot by an amateur photographer, Ellis Wiley, whose wife donated 50 years worth of his shots to the Toronto Archives after his death. This is Bay and Bloor Sts., circa 1969.

magnette

I remember going on a test drive of one with dad around 1970. Within the first block, he hated it.

To the left of shot is a 63 Chevrolet (Bel Air or Biscayne?) but beyond that is a Vauxhall HB - we called it the Viva but I think you had it as the Epic

Depends on what dealer group sold it. Chevy dealers had them branded as Envoy Epics, while Pontiac dealers had them as Vauxhall Vivas.








THe 411 was never a big seller here - nor the subsequent 412.

My mum had a 1968 Viva HB SL 2-door which was still around when started driving but the chap who bought it had a bad crash in it when some wild horses got onto the main road and he wrote it off - as well as at least one horse...

Oh - and I note that wasn't an Imperial - it really looked large enough though!

Well spotted on the Mk 2 Cortina, Fin...

magnette

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I assume the rare car is a Canadian spec Firenza, I don't believe those were ever offered in Murka.

Yes, I was waiting for @magnette to weigh in on that, as I don't know what their reputation was in their homeland. But here in Canada, they made quite a poor impression. This article from a now-defunct website was captured by the Internet Archive and is well done in documenting how its reputation quickly went down the drain, and how early-'70s GM Canada was arrogant and slow in doing anything for the poor souls who bought one here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180630080921/http://www.autofocus.ca/news-events/features/the-firenza-fiasco-is-the-canadian-nader-corvair-affair-you-never-heard-about

Sorry - I wasn't online yesterday. interesting article on the Viva / Epic / Firenza saga....

I didn't realise the HC Viva was sold under the Firenza name with you. We got the HC as a Viva when in two or four door saloon spec, and the two door coupe as a Firenza a little later. After a while they put in larger engines (the original HC Viva had the same 1159cc engine of the HB just like my mum's old car) but eventually they changed the range to a Viva E with economy small engine and the Magnum 2 or 4 door saloon or the Firenza coupe - with 1800 or 2300 engines same as those in the FE Victor range.

The FC Viva was not as big a success as the FB had been here because it was getting out of date by then and was replaced with the then new Vauxhall Chevette really - I had one of those - a 2 door saloon with an 1159 engine - for a while too...

Whilst never as popular as it's main rivals - the ADO 16 from BL and especially the mk 1 & Mk 2 Escort - the Viva was steady seller and it was the rust in the sills that tended to finish them off - they were basically sound enough although tinny.....

My mum's HB 2-door had a problem common to all the HB's that if you left the boot unlocked and drove over a pothole or a bump in the road the boot lid would fly open - you had to keep it locked all the time to prevent that - it was the rear panel that flexed I think not the lid itself... It was pretty flimsy but handled quite well and had a good clutch and gearbox. I drove an HC quite a lot around htetime I was learning to drive too - that was a driving school car so the clutch was slipping a bit but otherwise no worse than average.

My chevette also had a boot lid that you had to lock although living in London by then I always did anyway so it was rare for it to pop open.

Also in the shot with the Viva / Firenza in the foreground - is that about a 65 Rambler American between the Datsun and the VW 3 / 4 -just right of the lady in the white top?

magnette

Maybe a few to ID here, and interesting because of the bridge. This is the old Lake Washington/I90 bridge - weird design that apparently led to many crashes, and I believe this weird bulge part was removed before the bridge eventually failed:




That shot with the bridge - is that parking area in the middle with the Ford?

I can see a pink and white 56 Studebaker President Classic - and a blue Mopar ahead in light blue which must be about the same age.

I thought at first the grey car would be a Peugeot 403 but not sure now as I think it's equally likely to be an Alfa 1900.

The green and white car is a Chevrolet - perhaps a 210 ?

I can see an older GM fastback - it's sort of beige in colour - but what is the really old black car ahead of that blue Mopar?

magnette

ab348 said:

This is a Toronto street scene shot by an amateur photographer, Ellis Wiley, whose wife donated 50 years worth of his shots to the Toronto Archives after his death. This is Bay and Bloor Sts., circa 1969.








OK - I'm now on this interesting Toronto shot - the red car is of course what we had as the Vauxhall Victor FB - I think you had it as an Envoy.
Is the approaching car ahead of the Benz an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme ?

ab348

magnette said:

I didn't realise the HC Viva was sold under the Firenza name with you. We got the HC as a Viva when in two or four door saloon spec, and the two door coupe as a Firenza a little later. After a while they put in larger engines (the original HC Viva had the same 1159cc engine of the HB just like my mum's old car) but eventually they changed the range to a Viva E with economy small engine and the Magnum 2 or 4 door saloon or the Firenza coupe - with 1800 or 2300 engines same as those in the FE Victor range.

The FC Viva was not as big a success as the FB had been here because it was getting out of date by then and was replaced with the then new Vauxhall Chevette really - I had one of those - a 2 door saloon with an 1159 engine - for a while too...

Having driven a Chevette here, it is truly hard to imagine how one of those could be considered much of an upgrade over anything except perhaps walking.

magnette said:

Also in the shot with the Viva / Firenza in the foreground - is that about a 65 Rambler American between the Datsun and the VW 3 / 4 -just right of the lady in the white top?

Yes, I was waiting for someone to notice that. Could be a '64 as well, and even more remarkably, if you look closely you can see that it is a wagon model, which must have been pretty scarce even when new. I didn't remember AMC making a wagon version of the American, but they did, for a while.

magnette

Having driven a Chevette here, it is truly hard to imagine how one of those could be considered much of an upgrade over anything except perhaps walking.



Yes, I was waiting for someone to notice that. Could be a '64 as well, and even more remarkably, if you look closely you can see that it is a wagon model, which must have been pretty scarce even when new. I didn't remember AMC making a wagon version of the American, but they did, for a while.





My Vauxhall Chevette was replacing a Mini 1000 which had hit a Land Rover (an Army one) and in fairness it was also much newer. I was happy with it for a time although the engine went eventually after a long run from northern England back to London on a hot day...

The Mini went for a while after the Land Rover incident (quite a dent too) but had to go eventually.. Handled well though - never drove a car better on corners than any classic Mini until the recent generation Ford Fiestas.

I hadn't spotted that rambler was a wagon but I can see it must be, now...

fintail

I think your guesses are right. I think the old black car is a just-postwar GM, possibly a Buick.

Fintail in Toronto is a W111.

magnette said:

That shot with the bridge - is that parking area in the middle with the Ford?

I can see a pink and white 56 Studebaker President Classic - and a blue Mopar ahead in light blue which must be about the same age.

I thought at first the grey car would be a Peugeot 403 but not sure now as I think it's equally likely to be an Alfa 1900.

The green and white car is a Chevrolet - perhaps a 210 ?

I can see an older GM fastback - it's sort of beige in colour - but what is the really old black car ahead of that blue Mopar?

magnette

The Vauxhall Enoy was available in Canada for the first three series I think wasn't\t it - ie the F (FA) and then this FB and the FC -our Victor FC 101

fintail

I think everything here can be ID'd through the fence, bonus points on identifying the person in the pic:

tmart

57 Ford, no idea on the guy.

ab348

magnette said:

OK - I'm now on this interesting Toronto shot - the red car is of course what we had as the Vauxhall Victor FB - I think you had it as an Envoy.
Is the approaching car ahead of the Benz an Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme ?

It is a 1968 Olds Cutlass (not a Supreme, which in '68 and '69 was an upgraded spec with unique exterior trim which this does not seem to have). But finding a '68 Cutlass and a fintail Benz in the same shot required that I post the pic here.

ab348

In Fin's pic I see a '61 Buick and a 1st-gen Corvair. The fellow looks familiar but I cannot come up with a name.

fintail

The car directly behind the guy on the fence looks like a 57 Coupe DeVille. Between the Corvair and the Ford might be a ~56 Olds.

Guy on the fence is Bruce Lee, who spent time in Seattle when he was young and attended UW.

fintail

Olympia 1984, see it, drive it, live it: (click zoom etc):



Cutlass and fintail could only be topped off by a 60 Ford in the same shot, but I bet in that climate, most 60 Fords/Meteors were already off the road or close to it.