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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    ...but perhaps a good summary is in order:

    Straight-line performance - Both are good, GTO is a bit quicker.
    Handling - Both are good, Mustang is a bit better.
    Steering - Both are good, Mustang is a bit more responsive.
    Braking - Have essentially the same stopping distances, Mustang has better pedal feel.
    Mileage - these are not economy cars.....
    Room - both are coupes, GTO has more rear seat space.
    Comfort - highly subjective.
    Trunk - both are small, Mustang is larger
    Price - Mustang has MSRP advantage but street prices are probably close.
    Style - highly subjective.
    Exclusivity - GTO clearly ahead.
    Fun to drive - obviously, "fun" varies from driver to driver, highly subjective

    Everyone has different criteria for choosing which car is "best" for them. Everyone places different emphasis on different aspects. For me, if I HAD to choose between these two cars, and these two cars only, it would have to be the GTO. Why? I need to haul around a couple of kids and the rear-seat room is better in the GTO. Fortunately, my options are not limited to just these two cars. If rear-seat room was not an issue, for ME, I would chose the Mustang simply because I value handling/style above pure straightline performance. But this doesn't make the Mustang better for EVERYONE, just for me.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Motor trend on the $70k Mercedes CLK 55 vs the 350hp 2004 $35k Pontiac GTO.

    ..........The Pontiac GTO provides perhaps 85 to 90 percent of the goodness-for less than 50 percent of the cost. It isn't that this odd-duck matchup says anything disparaging about the CLK55. It just shows the praiseworthiness of the GTO. Proff Positive that, depending on your tase and budget, LESS can sometimes BE MORE..........

    Pretty impressive to even be compared to a car like this. Mustang was never compared to cars like this.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Good points.. I only disagree with you on the Comfort, from my driving, the GTO is the more comfortable better riding car, esp for long trips. Felt like more of a luxury car then Mustang. Seats felt better too. My opinion. For me I have a kid, so the GTO worked out better, more room back there. Both cars make good choices. Depends what you want.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Re: comfort.

    Like I said in my earlier post, comfort is subjective.

    Re: comparison to CLK55 "depending on your tase and budget, LESS can sometimes BE MORE.......... "

    Couldn't the same be said in a comparison between the Mustang and GTO?
  • "But this doesn't make the Mustang better for EVERYONE, just for me."

    Right on!

    If you want a true "sleeper" that will win at the strip and can still take some turns, and need a bit more room inside, pick the GTO.

    If you want to be seen, and would glady trade excess horses for increased handling, and you don't plan on doing much with the backseat, pick the Mustang.

    Enjoy your ride either way!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Brushbandit writes...... I hate to break the news to Mustang owners but you can't tell the GT apart from the Hertz Rent a Car V-6. Oh yeah, the GT has fog lights in the grill, I forgot......

    LOL! Speaking of that the Hertz Rental car place by me that I just passed at lunchtime has three 2005 Mustangs in it's lot for rental, all V6 hardtops. I wonder how many of the Mustangs are fleet/rental sales?
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Yes and No, CLK55 is TWICE the price of GTO. GTO is NOT twice the price or that much more $$ then comparable equipped Mustang. $5k dif to avg buyer, maybe less

    So for me the GTO with my GM employee discount, $1k rebate, Gm credit card points etc and $1k internet pricing was not much more then a loaded Mustang V8 which goes for about $28k to $29k. Pretty close in price. So to me the GTO was the better buy. Too bad I don't have a Ford discount.

    If you can still find or get one you can get a 2004 Leftover 350hp GTO for $25k or less. I have heard as low as $23k. So in reality the GTO could be considered the better buy. At least to me. All the Ford dealers by me are getting MSRP or higher on the GT's.
  • cmnottcmnott Posts: 200
    Not enough to matter in this discussion.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Sounds like there is a lot of reliability problems with the NEW 2005 Mustang or at least the early ones from what I saw on the Ford Mustang 2005 Problems and Solutions boards..... WAY MORE then GTO. I don't see many on GTO here on edmunds. Then again I would NEVER buy a first year car anyway new. I have done that and learned the hard way. 1995 Aurora V8 and 1997 GTP.

    Some excerpts.......detracting from what is supposed to be a cool car. I'm advising others to wait before purchasing a 'stang until all the kinks are worked out. In my case, it looks like I've got awhile to go before the pony runs like I know it can!.....

    .....I think WE ALL need to ask Ford to extend our warranties since WE ALL have so many problems!! If Ford don't we will be in deep caca!!.....

    .... The Service Manager said according to a Ford Rep he spoke with, the clunk we hear when shifting from P to R is characteristic between the transmission & the driveshaft....

    Numerous CD player, rear axle, GAS TANK problems, dash rattles, brakes etc. Many other ones I'm sure there are Mustangs that are fine too, but this sounds like alot of issues.

    As they say, you get what you pay for.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    You have to remember, the GTO has been around for a few years as the Manaro in Australia so all the kinks certainly SHOULD be worked out on the GTO. Also, a lot more Mustangs have been sold here than GTO's (I thinked we've discussed that to death), so I'm not surprised that one would see more posts about quality issues.
  • To me, when it comes to American V-8 RWD musclecars, the straight line performance is what matters most. I want 1/4 mile, stoplight to stoplight, power. That's what muscle cars have always been about and will always be about. Don't get me wrong, I want a car that handles well and stops well and the GTO does both. Maybe I'm old school but I put an emphasis on American, cam in block, V-8 muscle. To me the GTO is the winner hands down. The GTO stealth looks are icing on the cake. I'm 43 and would feel a little rediculous in the Mustang GT. I get enough mid life crisis comments from the GTO.
  • I agree, I was just checking it out. Alot of unhappy campers over in the Mustang problem thread. Looks like their might be trouble in paradise. Graphic Guy Is posting around over there trying to put the fires out. Does the Mustang GT come with a fire pumper option? :)
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,317
    Sounds like the debate is raging on.

    True....I do use trade rag numbers to get a general idea of what any car will do before I buy it. In this instance, I looked at all the majors....Edmunds, R&T, MT & C&D. All of them had the '05 GTO about 1/10th of a sec quicker than the Mustang GT in 0-60. All of them had the '05 GTO 2/10ths quicker in the 1/4 ('04 GTOs were all a little slower than the Mustang GT). That's insignificant. Even though the '05 GTO had 100HP more than the Mustang GT, that didn't translate into any significant advantage over the Mustang GT primiarily because the GTO weighs more. I do think some of the lack of performance difference stems from the shifter in the GTO being less precise than the Mustang's, too.

    I decided to drive the GTO (twice, one '04 and one '05). My "seat of the pants" told me what the numbers bear out....there was no noticeable difference in accleration. Someone suggested I look at some track results (which can be all over the map because of driver experience). Didn't see any clear cut differences there either. So, I called it a draw.

    That's high praise for both cars because they are both very fast.

    The real differences came when comparing steering, clutch, shifter, etc comparisons. That's where the Mustang pulled ahead. The GTO just felt "heavy" in all my drives compared to the Mustang. IIRC, someone actually said that the GTO felt like it was wearing an "auto condom" when compared to the Mustang. I concur.

    They are both coupes. As such, the back seat will be hard to get in and out of in either. I opted for the much more useable trunk of the Mustang over that of the little one in the GTO.

    Styling, interior, etc are all going to be subjective. Clearly, the marketplace has spoken on what the public likes. Based on the fact that GM has had a problem selling 16K (down from 18K originally slated) '04s and the fact that '05s are being rebated to sell a reduced production number (12K) tells me the GTO isn't the success that GM had hoped for. I heard someone actually say that the GTO was "sales proof". Future of the model is, at best, dicey. Mustang was slated to sell 150K units. It's popularity caused Ford to up production to 190K units (of which almost 50K will be Mustang GTs). The marketplace decides what is a success and what isn't. Clearly, the Mustang has been an overwhelming success. The GTO is in sales purgatory. History won't remember it kindly, IMHO.

    Pricing has been a bone of contention. When I ordered mine, the price differential was about $4,800 in favor of the Mustang. Since the Mustang has only gained in popularity, it's clear that they bring MSRP. My MSRP was $28K (not what I bought it for). GTO's, with no employee plan are selling for $31.8 with the rebate (according to Edmunds in my zip code). That's still a $3,800 difference in the Mustang's favor. Unfortunately, you can't even get an '05 Mustang GT right now as they are pretty much sold out (with a few around here and there).

    While mine has been one of the best new car purchases from a quality perspective that I've ever made, I've seen some minor issues with other's cars that were built early on. Apparently, some of the early builds had slow filling issues when refueling. Ford issued a TSB for those. Someone had some kind of sound in their automatic tranny car when shifting. Dealer will have to diagnose it as I don't have an automatic tranny. Some people had an issue with their stereo skipping tracks when playing burned CDs. Ford is replacing those with an updated CD player. That's all that I'm aware of. As said, mine was built in March and have none of those issues. I'm just trying to help other Mustang enthusiasts. None of that would be what I'd consider putting out any fires.

    Considering GM being....well....GM.....let's not take some minor early issues with the Mustang and make them out to be something more than they are.
  • If you check on other forums you'll find out the GTO has its own problems. Some might argue more problems than the Mustang based on far fewer sales proportionally. For example:

    - Paint (thin, blotches, mismatched panels)
    - Interior & Exterior Trim (peeling, bubbling, mismatched 5.7 & 6.0 badges)
    - Fit & Finish (rubbing exterior panels, rattling seats, power window issues)

    The three above are the kiss of death on a $30K + vehicle IMO.

    - Electronics (issues that seem to go way beyond a weak/dead battery)
    - Premature Clutch Failures
    - Tranny Whine
    - Leaking Freeze Plugs

    And maybe my favorite of all, the front tires rubbing on the strut towers causing premature wear/replacement. Seems Pontiac increased the width of the tires by 10mm for export but didn't adjust the front suspension accordingly. LOL
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    You're right also. The Mustang and GTO are in different markets. Not that they don't compete. Especially out on the street. The GTO is about somewhat upscale performance. The Mustang is never considered upscale. This year the Mustang was seriously upgraded and for that you guys should be thankful. At least now you have a little class with your performance.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    If only that were true out here in the Bay Area. There only only a couple per dealer and they are moving. I know, I've been checking periodically and there is new stock every time. And the only incentive is that $1K. I even got a GM card in case that incentive comes around again but it's not happening.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Just some observations in my area....The GTO is a more upscale car then Mustang. A bunch of GTO owners were former BMW owners if you read some of the GTO forums. Pretty interesting. One of my friends with a BMW 540 is going to trarde it in soon on GTO. His 3yr lease is coming up. That same crowd isn't trading in their BMW's on Mustangs. When asked he would never consider reantacarstang is what he said. His words not mine. He would neve consider a Pontiac either except GTO since it's not made here, LOL! Dash-etc, far superior then any of the other Pontiac cars or most of what GM sells. That is why it starts at $33K+. Mustang starts at $19k big dif. in demographics. Based on what I have seen, in my area more upscale wealthier people are buying GTO vs Mustang. In my area alot of the V6 stangs are driven by 17yr old high school students already, just saw 4 in the High school parking lot.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    I think you are mistaken the GTO for the 2005 Mustang's electrical problems.. Post from Ford Trouble section for 2005 Mustangs....

    ........Help! I have a '05 mustang purchased in Jan 05. In March on a rainy morning the complete electrical system failed on the interstate. Was able to coast out of traffic without incident. Four days at the dealership they were unable to find a problem or recreate the incident. Two weeks later the problem occurred again at night in the rain and fog in Friday night traffic. Dealer is still unable to find problem after extensive water testing and says we should take the car back and let them know if we have any problems. Any ideas or suggestions...I am a little afraid of hitting the streets again. My luck may run out.......
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Kind of funny that edmunds has a Forum called 2005 Mustang, Problems and solutions and it's ALREADY up to 59+ posts, yet there is NO problems and soultion for GTO on edmunds, might tell you something. From what I read on that Mustang forum, sounds pretty bad.

    At least I can put gas in my GTO unlike certain Mustangs that have to be fixed or new gas tank, LOL! That is a KISS of DEATH on any car at any price. TSB on it, so Ford knows it's a problem. Pretty embarassing wouldn't you say?
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Sounds like some of the Ford dealers can't Even fix the problems on the 2005 Mustang yet, LOL!

    Just got my 2nd Shaker Cd put in & now none of the buttons light up night & the speed control volume doesn't work. Still have the "thunk". Service guy says he hears it, but doesn't know how to fix it

    Yes, I have a 05 V6. The front end sounds like a 40 year old car that has bad bushings. And, it makes a ping or snapping sound on occation like a bracket of some sort is snapping back and forth. The dealership drove it and said Ford is aware of the problem and is working on a universal repair that should be announced at the beginning of May. It will require new suspension parts, possible new control arms. They are not announcing the problem for some reason. Probably because not all cars are having the problem.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    This should say it all.. Ford Officials promising Some chassis UPGRADES fairly soon? WONDER WHY? Obvious problems... Thats what happens when you rush a car out to the public, kind of funny because LS chassis was pretty decent. Do NOT buy a FIRST year car. from consumerguide.com.....

    Meantime, mainstream Mustangs may get various tweaks aimed at improving ride comfort and reducing noise, vibration and harshness. Timing is unclear, but a leading industry trade paper recently quoted Ford officials as more or less promising some chassis "upgrades" fairly soon.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    You are right, all cars have their own problems, including the GTO. But the Mustang seem to be more sever, esp that gas tank problem.

    Electronics issues on GTO were a bad battery which can happen on the 2month transit from Austrailia to America. As soon as dealer put a new battery in, it was fine. Unlike Musttangs that seem to just die at highwayspeeds from electriclal malfunctions, LOL! Dealer can't find out why. Thats a lot more sever to me.

    Got news for ya, Pontiac did adjust the front suspension accordlingly to handle P245 tires. In austrailia they have P235. It was one rare case. Everyone else that posted after that never had that problem at all. All suggested he had an alignment problem if you read the whole post. if you saw the pictures of the tire he posted it was CLEARLY an alignment problem. Read the whole thread first!

    I supposed we could keep on going, but I won't last post on this. Mustang is more problematic then GTO, face it. As they say you GET what you pay for.

    Holden is a proven platform, the 2005 Stang is Not yet. Give it until next year to iron out bugs.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,317
    Embarrased that someone was having issues with refueling their cars taking too long being the kiss of death? That's a stretch.

    59 posts of issues (some of them solutions to issues) for a car that's already got 100,000 of them on the road? Not bad at all in my estimation. Even some of those are issues that are more an indication of a poor dealer service dept., not an indictment of the car.

    GM dealers are all sterling, right?

    I can start a thread for GTO problems if you want. But, I don't own one so I have no need.

    Some people having to take a while refueling their Mustangs isn't something I'd consider a big problem. Ford has addressed it with a running production change and offered those who have early builds a fix IF THEY EXPERIENCE any such behavior. I consider the "issue" to be minor and one that I've yet to experience.

    One of the things I don't understand is anyone saying a Pontiac (no matter what the model) being some sort of "lux" car. I just don't see it. My dealer took a BMW 330i on trade for a Mustang. Does that make the Mustang a luxury car?
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    graphicguys writes......someone actually said that the GTO felt like it was wearing an "auto condom" when compared to the Mustang. I concur. .....

    Kind of funny because C&D said the GTO was the MORE FUN to DRIVE car then Mustang,and it's steering was FAR more communicative then the steering the Mustang, LOL!

    Graphic guy writes.....I do think some of the lack of performance difference stems from the shifter in the GTO being less precise than the Mustang's, too. ......

    NO, the GTO outperforms the Mustang, plain and simple, WON all the performance categories.

    Graphicguy writes....... Clearly, the marketplace has spoken on what the public likes.....

    The market place likes it because it's CHEAP and starts at $19k, and has the BOY RACER GOT TO HAVE looks..... GTO starts at $31k+ FOrd had the ability to sell nearly 200k, GM only had the max ability of 18k for the UMPTEENTH time. The avg Mustang buyer can't afford GTO. Big dif, $19k car vs $31k car Got alot of teeny boppers, high school students/college students and fleet sales/ Hertz buying them. Why do you think 66% of 2004 sales were CHEAP V6 model?

    How do you know History won't remember the GTO? You ssem to forget the Grand National and V8 impala SS were only made for 3 yrs too! They are fondly remembered. LOL! The advantage is that you don't see them a DIME a dozen like the Mustang.

    As for the Mustang GT sold out, NOT IN MY AREA, there is 3 on the lot by me now and 2 V6's.
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    I would consider the fueling problem a MAJOR Deal on even a used car. Gm dealers are far from perfect too, but never heard from one, how they can't fix a problem before. Sorry.

    The thread for GTO problems won't even come close to Mustang problems.

    The BMW 3 series is NOT a luxury car. It's a tiny cramped car. You can get one for not much more then Mustang, low 30's When you buy a 3 series BMW around here it says I wanted a BMW but couldn't afford one. The 5, 6 and 7 series are the real BMW.

    BMW quality is now worse then GM.. Ibelieve Buick far surpassed them in quality a few yrs ago. My 528 was nice but very high maintenance costs.

    the avg BMW owner is not trading in for a Mustang, sorry to burst your bubble. However if you read the GTO specific forums, you will see many former BMW owners, myself included that have traded in for a GTO.

    GTO is more the luxury car then the Stang will ever be
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    For my last message here... Just because the Mustang SELLS BETTER then the GTO, doesn't make it a BETTER CAR! LOL! if that is the case then the Camry or Accord is the Best car in the world then, right? Or the Tauraus of 5 yrs ago was the best?

    If you remember the Pinto based Mustang of 1974 to 1978 was a decent to good seller.

    It shows you that people will buy CRAP/Garbage.

    Look at the Ford Focus, one of the best selling cars, yet it is also the MOST RECALLED Car in history, LOL! many quality problems.. that shows you people will buy CRAP. Same thing with Sunfires/Cavaliers.. sold pretty well for GM but were CRAP!

    At one time when Mustang sales dropped as low as 90k or 100k units Ford thought about cancelling the lline 20+ yrs ago.

    Just because something sells the best doesn't make it the best. Look at Titanic movie, exactly. It may have set all time sales record, but far from the best movie. LOL!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    If all you can do in a comparison between two cars is to rip the other car (just how many times can one use the word "crap" in one post, anyway?), then indeed, it may be time to move on.

    Enjoy your GTO. I'm sure gguy enjoys his Mustang. I don't think there's any reason to burst a blood vessel over this.......
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,317
    rorr...I don't get it either. I do really enjoy the Mustang for all the reasons previously stated.

    Enjoy the GTO, if that's your preference.

    Why the name calling (the Mustang is "crap")? Particularly given the overwhelming success the Mustang is enjoying. Ford must have done something right (quite a few things right since the Mustang has been so overwhelmingly praised).

    This is one of the few times I'm left confused and to wonder if there's some sort of underlying "bad feeling" regarding the success of the new Mustang. Given the fact that some here have spent quite a bit of time in all Mustang forums (lifting posts out of context), I have to believe they have more than a passing interest in the car itself, regardless of what they currently own.

    Even the consumer ratings here at Edmunds give the Mustang a "9.1 rating" and call it one of the most desireable cars with all their readership. Can't be "crap" if so many readers here want one.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I think what we're seeing (IMO) is simple frustration by GTO owners.

    The GTO is a good car. THEY know the GTO is a good car. Yet they see hordes and hordes of people buying Mustangs; they see the automotive press panning the GTO in favor of the Mustang over (what they see as) non-performance issues. They see that GM has essentially abandoned the GTO (lack of advertising) and they realize that, due to no fault of the car itself, the 2006 is likely to be the last year for the GTO.

    I would be frustrated too.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    You are right, all cars have their own problems, including the GTO. But the Mustang seem to be more sever, esp that gas tank problem.

    Umm... I wouldn't call a slow-filling gas tank a severe problem unless I was being chased buy a creepy monster or psycho-back-from-the-dead-hellbent-on-revenge that was going to sever my head from my body and I had to get a fill-up on #4 before I could escape. :blush:

    Electronics issues on GTO were a bad battery which can happen on the 2month transit from Austrailia to America. As soon as dealer put a new battery in, it was fine. Unlike Musttangs that seem to just die at highwayspeeds from electriclal malfunctions, LOL! Dealer can't find out why. Thats a lot more sever to me.

    Got news for ya, Pontiac did adjust the front suspension accordlingly to handle P245 tires. In austrailia they have P235. It was one rare case. Everyone else that posted after that never had that problem at all. All suggested he had an alignment problem if you read the whole post. if you saw the pictures of the tire he posted it was CLEARLY an alignment problem. Read the whole thread first!

    I supposed we could keep on going, but I won't last post on this. Mustang is more problematic then GTO, face it. As they say you GET what you pay for.

    Holden is a proven platform, the 2005 Stang is Not yet. Give it until next year to iron out bugs.


    Total double standard there. One minute you're complaining that the Mustang is (very loosely) based on the 5 or 6 year old LS platform and it is old, but the GTO is on the same Monaro platform that is OLDER than the LS, but it is a proven platform??? :confuse: Give me a break! One guy reports an electrical system problem that is obviously being caused by moisture getting into his electrical system somehow and it's a Mustang epidemic. A GTO owner reports premature tire wear and it's an isolated incident?? :confuse:

    You have said you weren't going to post in this topic anymore AT LEAST 6 times. I sure do wish you would keep your promise because you're full of it. And if I have to see you type "LOL!" one more time, I think I'm going to gouge my own eyes out!
    :sick:
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