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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    Get it straight,its not a gto,its a cavalier with a vette engine,which by the way,is the only good lookin' thing on the whole vehicle----THE ENGINE---WAY TO GO CORVETTE, at least its not been totally put out of its misery yet---well,that's until you start driving it though!!!!! :lemon:
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    It's a Holden Monaro from GM's Austrailian Holden Division, not a Cavalier, that was rebadged as a GTO for our US Market. This car was NOT designed by Lutz. This car can be equipped with the Corvette engine in Austrailia as well. It's also sold as the Chevy Lumina SS in Saudi Arabie as well. Get it straight!

    Theoretically the 1964 GTO wasn't a REAL GTO either, it was a rebadged Lemans with more powerfull engine, badging, etc.
    Give it a rest.
  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    Let's take main rants about GM to the News & Views board where we have a number of GM and Lutz discussions.

    This discussion is about the new Mustang and the new GTO.

    Thanks!
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    If you disagree with a point of view, state your case without resorting to negative comments about each other; otherwise, your posts will be removed.

    Claire

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • SylviaSylvia Posts: 1,636
    A large number of posts were deleted this evening as a few people can't read what the discussion is about and are talking off-topic and were attacking each other.

    Stay on topic, stay civil or you will be removed from the Forums.
  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    The 300c SRT-8,not only looks better than the gto,but it was faster in 1/4 mile,it is more luxurious with muscle too,seats and interior are better, and a real cool look to it!!! In the end sales tell the story!!! GTO will never catch up to sales of the 300!! Also, the 300C SRT-8 is a very limited production car,which will make it even more collectable!!!! :)
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Actually the GTO is just about as fast as SRT8 and costs $8k less too! SRT8 was 13.2 in 1/4, GTO was 13.3 1/4, very close, driver's race. As per Motor Trend. 0-60 was nearly identical for both cars, 4.9 and 5.0 SRT8 is Slushbox, Auto only, no manual tranny option!

    Actually the GTO will outsell the 300C SRT8 for 2005 by nearly 2 to 1 ratio. 12,000 GTO and 5,000 SRT8 for 2005 production. They are BOTH low production cars. The SRT8 is a nice car no doubt. Glad we have a lot of choices in american muscle.

    Traditionally real muscle cars have 2 doors and manual trans, so by those definitions, SRT8 isn't a muscle car in the true sense.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Also, the SRT-8 is produced in even fewer numbers than the GTO and they are being swiped up FAST. Can't say that about the GTO. It's imported in limited numbers, but I still see more than plenty of them just lumbering on dealer lots like beached dolphins.

    I'd most definitely take a 300C SRT-8 over a GTO, but had (the right) one been available, I would've probably taken one over the Mustang GT, too! :) No doubt about it that I would take a Magnum SRT-8 over all three of those. The only negative I can think of with the SRT-8 cars is the horrendous fuel economy. But the saying goes, "With cars like these, who's worried about fuel economy?" :shades:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    As per Motor Trend. 0-60 was nearly identical for both cars, 4.9 and 5.0 SRT8 is Slushbox, Auto only, no manual tranny option!

    Stop the presses!! :mad: A 4.9/5.0 SRT-8/GTO 0-60 is nearly identical and a "drivers' race," but you guys argue that a 5.0/5.1 GTO/GT 0-60 is a thrashing?? :confuse: Talk about hypocritical. :surprise:
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    I never said that a 5.1/5.1 GTO - GT was a thrashing! You might want to check your fact first, wasn't me that posted it!!

    Mustang-GTO would be a good drivers race. No doubt.
  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    I know we are suppose to be talking about mustangs and gto's,so this will be my last follow up comment on the 300c srt-8!! First of all let me set you straight,you got the 1/4 mile time right,srt-8 wins,and oh by the way,it out-weighs your gto and is still faster,so it just goes to show you pound for pound the srt hemi is kicking your butt,be very thankful the srt-8 is not the same weight as the gto,if it was --man you would looooose big time-they got something hiding in that engine thats for sure!! Second-srt-8 looks 100 times better than the cavalier,grand am,I mean gto-sorry,I keep forgetting!! Thirdly-The srt-8 is a limited production car,and it is the only reason they are making 2000 of them so they don't flood the market and take away from the 300c which by the way has outsold gto's by the tens of thousands!! GTO is not limited to 2000 models,they just plain could not sell them because their plain ugly--looks nothing like a real gto---which were very hott cars!! Now back to mustang,You better enjoy your gto,because mustang is going to be around alot longer and looks 1000 times better than the gto!! Plus the latest news is GM has terminated the ZETA platform for rear-drive,which the new gto was counting on having,but no more,because GM is trying to cut costs,and the gto sales numbers are terrible,and are not selling that good, compared to the mustang,which has INCREASED PRODUCTION TO 200,000 FOR THE FIRST YEAR ONLY!!! Your gto will lucky to get half that number in several years of production,but you don't have to worry about that because they cancelled the Zeta rear -drive program,and thats not good for you guys!!! Either way I hope you enjoy what you got!! You'll see!! Sales figures tell all!!!! :) All GM had to do is to do a retro gto from the 60's,and I guarantee you,it would have been a grand slam!! But Lutz tried to do it the cheap,easy cost effective way,gambled and lost!! The public is way tooo smart for that,especially when us baby-boomers remember what the originals were and are,and always will be,and thats most muscle cars from back then!!!! That's why mustang is doing so well,because they did exactly that, they gave the public what they wanted,not what the greedy upper management thought they could get away with like lutz anticipated, He should have went to the public like Ford did,and then you would have had A Real GTO with incredbile styling also!! That's why their trying to fumble around with your current gto by adding this or that to it, to make it exceptible!! Its like trying to throw a life preserver on a sinking boat!! Need to redesign,so it stays afloat on its own,like the ones we use to remember!! They(GM),probably could have got away with it if they named it something else,but please not a GTO!! The name GTO is held to a much higher standard than that and what they tried to hand off to the public as their version--Big Mistake and their finding out the hard way!!! :lemon:
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Why did you drag the 300C into this forum? While it can be cross shopped, it is not in the same class as either Mustang or GTO. And why don't you compare it to the Mustang? The same points could be made. Better looking? That''s subjective. The 300C looks like a steroidal Mercedes to me. That's not something I aspire to. The 300C is faster than the GTO? Since many of you claim the Mustang is also faster, then the 300C vs Mustang should be a good shootout. Then you could claim similar performance for say, $15K less.

    You say the 300C is outselling the GTO and then turn around and say the 300C is limited production. You can't have it both ways.

    You say the 300C is luxurious. I don't know since I haven't checked it out. I can't get by those fender flares which look ridiculous to me. But considering the Mercedes/Chrysler combo I'm sure you are right. The 300C is a luxury car with muscle. The GTO, although I don't think you would agree, is upscale muscle. So where does that leave the Mustang? Economy muscle?

    Comparing the 300C to the CTS-V would be more valid.
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Please stick to the topic -- Pontiac GTO vs. Ford Mustang.

    Claire

    MODERATOR
    Need help getting around? claires@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    You say the 300C is outselling the GTO and then turn around and say the 300C is limited production. You can't have it both ways.

    The 300C is outselling the GTO by leaps and bounds. The 300C SRT-8 is limited production, but it's outselling the GTO, too. It costs more, it's heavier, and it only has 25 more HP. But it's still coveted more than the GTO. That tells you something.

    The 300C is a luxury car with muscle. The GTO, ..., is upscale muscle.

    What's the difference?

    So where does that leave the Mustang? Economy muscle?

    Absolutely! :D And America wouldn't have it any other way! :shades: GTO sales are proof of that. :sick:
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    I do NOT have a GTO, had a Mustang whcih was great, too many problems. Contemplating buying a GTO, but have not yet.

    The GM Zeta Rear drive program is alive down under in Austraila just not for the US, that kind of stunk.

    Certain people are complaining about this 2004-2005 not being a real GTO etc. Hate to tell you but the 1964 and 1974 were NOT real GTO's then either. 1964 was a rebadged Lemans and 1974 was a rebadged Ventura. Knowbody complains about the 1964 though. The 2005 is the most powerfull, fastest, best handling, best braking GTO ever MADE! I think that more then speaks for itself. Yeah it would have been nicer to have better styling, but it's not ugly. It looks like other Pontiacs, just like the 1964 and 1974 did!

    The 1973 and 1974 did not sell well at all either, only about 7,000 to 10,000 each. Oh well.

    Next years Mustang supposed to be fastest one every made too, the GT500.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    I agree....Ford has their own issues. But, I think they are moving in the right direction. They asked their customers what they wanted in the Mustang and then proceeded to provide it. It's almost like GM didn't care what their customers thought about what the "new" GTO should or shouldn't be.

    Focusing on trucks is something both GM and Ford did way too much of. I think everyone knew that a "spike" in gas prices would hit them like it has.

    Ford seems to be more willing to make the tough "cuts" where they are needed. The Jaguar X model is the latest to be cut.

    Ford has done more to leverage "good platforms" against the duds.

    Ford has another "hit" on their hands with the Escape Hybrid.

    While I wouldn't want to be in either GM's or Ford's shoes right now, if I had to choose between what model would or would not survive between the Mustang and GTO, I feel very comfortable where the Mustang is as opposed to where the GTO is.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Monaro and Holden are very good selling cars in Austrailia though. Too bad we couldn't have the Holden division here. El Camino's there, 4 door version of the GTO etc. What if it was a great hit? Obviously it wasn't. Look at the Mercury Marauder and Retro T-bird, same thing. Cancelled do to lack of sales! Mercury failed to market and promoto the Marauder as well. Almost like they wanted it to fail Like GM with the GTO. Pontiac has sold more vehicles this year then Buick has if that is of any consolatin.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Gm did NOT create the GTO for us here in the states, they tried to save $$ and took their already existing Holden Monaro and imported it with some minor changes. Ford built the mustang from the ground up, which is probably what GM should have done with GTO. I don't think it's the failure the press is making it out to be, it's quite a nice/powerfull car. Too bad it didn't sell better.

    I thought the X Type was still carrying on with a new station wagon version that just came out? It is out as we speak. The X type was a Ford Contour platform in disguise anyway. Ford Contour, oops Jaguar. Jags sales are the toilet the last few yrs. I hope both Ford and GM can turn it around.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    danman...can't argue the point that Holden's do well in Australia. The U.S. is the toughest market in the world, though. What does will in one part of the world, will not neccessarily translate to sales here.

    Just look at diesel vehicles....so popular in Europe, yet such duds in the U.S.

    GM should have indeed made a ground up iteration of the GTO for this market. Such an icon deserved that type of effort. As GM always does, they tried to take the "easy" way out.....rebadge something else in their stables and foist it on the American public. That's a real shotgun approach with no real idea on how it will sell or what the public thinks. I call that GM arrogance from the days of "what's good for GM is good for America" type thinking.

    I do believe that Ford "gets it". You can see how they addressed the Mustang enthusiasts for input as to what the new Mustang should be. The public response was ovewhelmingly positive....to the point that young and old, past Mustang customer or not, the Mustang struck a chord with the public. I know more people who have bought this Mustang that wouldn't even have considered a Ford before. I was one of them. GM, on the other hand, brought the Monaro to the U.S. and said....."here's the new GTO, take it or leave it". Unfortunately, the U.S. market has given GM their decision.

    Never underestimate the amount of success to be enjoyed by asking the customer what they want and then giving it to them.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    They didn't even advertise the car, ala Mercury Marauder. At least Ford learned from that and advertises the Mustang. Too bad they couldn't have brought the Holden division here, they have some other nice vehicles in their lineup including a 4 door version of the GTO, a El camino version, etc. Pretty ncie. They are limited on 18,000 per year BS. I am in the market for something aftermy fiasco with that 2005 Mustang. I am going going to buy GTO, really like it, despite what the press says, I went into the test drive think negative, but came away surprised, very nice driving car. I think my Mustang was sportier. but GTO feels like Luxury/sport. I think I am going to do it. For me the manual shifer feeling rubbery means nothing, I prefer automatics in my cars. Trunk was tiny, but then again I am not buying the car for the trunk. GTO feels like it will be more comfortable on a long trip too.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Good luck with your GTO purchase.

    I do think it's a travesty that GM throws more money into SSR marketing than they do to the GTO. But, that may tell you how GM feels about the model and what the future holds for the GTO.
  • realty_prorealty_pro Posts: 85
    for the 2007 Shelby Mustang. 5.4 litre V-8, 450 ponies....
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    My guess is the GT500 will have quite a bit more than 450 ponies. They are going to trump the Z06, which will have 500 HP.

    Also, don't be so certain there won't be some Bullitts and Machs coming along soon, either.

    There are lots of different ways to go with either the 4.6L or the 5.4L.

    Given that '05 Mustang GTs are all sold out and that the '06 models will be sold out, at least initially, Ford has lots of leeway in what they can do.

    For now, I'm very happy with my '05 GT. Until Ford releases the GT500, I'll wait and see what else they may come up with. I don't even know if I'd be interested in the GT500 considering how the regular GT sells for MSRP and above. Dealers will, no doubt, hold to MSRP and above on the GT500.

    I'd be kidding myself to think that I'd ever remotely use the performance of the GT500. Hell, I'm having a hard time finding ways to exploit the performance of the GT.

    I'll be taking the 'Stang on its first road trip this weekend to the KY DERBY. That'll be fun as the weather will be perfect and the drive will be beautiful through the horse farms.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Thanks, Another dealer had a leftover 2004 GTO for under $25k what a steal, but I would rather have scoops, 50 extra hp, bigger brakes, dual exhaust etc I am going to use one of my friends GM discounts Even the SSR isn't marketed/advertised that heavily either. Corvette sells very well for GM. It's their biggest profit maker other then their trucks/suv's.

    BTW saw a Tbird for more then $10k off MSRP, leftover 2004? Or 2005. New. Saw a leftover SSR truck for $10k off MSRP too. Good deals to be had.
  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    You need to re-read post,I said the 300c SRT-8 was limited production(that's the muscle version SRT-8), not the 300c!!! AND your right,they are two different kinds of cars,(gto vs 300c srt-8)so that is why I said I wasn't going to talk about that anymore ,and I spent the rest of the post back on track talking about the comparisons of the Mustang and the gto,which you didn't comment at all on!!! Lets move on from the Muscle of the 300C SRT-8 vs.gto comparison!!!! As far as the Mustang being faster,I have not said that,one car has 300 hp and the other has 400 hp----bad comparison!! If you can't get beyond the styling of the car,why talk about faster and such things!! Heck I know people that got 600-700 hp power cars in very ugly cars,so really the horsepower really doesn't matter ,unless that's all you looking for!!! Mustang wins hands down---200,000 orders can't be wrong!!!!!!! Styling always will win out with the horsepower. When you talk muscle cars and want to use their original names,man,you better make it look real good like the old ones,and get customers input,who remember those cars(us baby-boomers),because it will flop otherwise--that's what happened to the gto!!! The gto deserves much,much more than what they(gm) did to it!!!! Bottom line-- Mustang WINS!!! gto-unfortunately loses out!! Sales don't lie!!! Think RETRO-MUSCLE GTO---GET CUSTOMERS INPUT--NOW THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT GTO!!! They would have sold just like the Mustangs!! But the styling hurt you guys,because GM didn't get with John Q Public and get their input,Like FORD DID,with the Mustang!!! I blame the greedy gm management,not you guys!!!!
    :lemon:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    danman....I've seen SSR ads in every major mag I've picked up recently. I've not seen much in the way of GTO ads....anywhere.

    There have been plenty of duds in autodom recently.....

    --T-Bird (should have done a lot more suspension work on that one)
    --Marauder (needed more motor)
    --SSR (plenty of motor but was the answer to a question no one asked)
    --Caddy and Lincoln pick-ups (see SSR...can't remember their names)
    --Aztec (ugliest vehicle I think I've ever seen....why are they still making them?)

    That GTO in '05 guise should run you about $30.3K-30.5K for GMO/GMS....then take the $1,000 "hot button" cash off of those numbers. The '04 would be about $25K less the $1000 "hot button" cash.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    The Aztec or [non-permissible content removed]tec as some call it is being replaced by the Torrent. 2005 is the last yr for it. Buick Version of the Azteck was much better looking. Sometimes you can get great deals on those duds though.

    Caddy pickup was more successfull then the Lincoln which only lasted 1 yr. Lincoln is bringing back the pickup, looks too much like a F150 to me. Excursion is or was cancelled for dwindling sales, Suburban always outsold it.

    Thanks for the info on the GTO, going tonight to do the deal.
  • danmandanman Posts: 16
    Stang22, grahpicguy, I had a 2005 Mustang, IT was a Lemon. Bought back under the lemon law. The day I got it the check engine light came on, a bad omen. O2 sensor. Rattles, squeaks that couldn't be fixed. Very poor quality. I had the gas tank filling problem. Pretty embarassing to struggle filling the tank on your new car! It looked quite good on the flatbed, the car was at the dealer almost more then I had it. Obviously a bad one, I'm sure not all stangs are like that. I have owned ones previously. Also remember the Stang starts at $14k cheaper then the GTO so obviously they are going to sell more. GTO doesn't have a cheaper V6 model to sell, otherwise it wouldn't be a GTO without the V8.

    It's going to take more then just the new Mustang to turn Ford around. The 1964 GTO didn't have the looks either... If you look at the 1964 GTO, nothing special styling wise, just a big 2 door Lemans rebadged as a GTO with bigger, V8, badges, wheels etc. Some of those 1960's GTO's don't look that great styling wise either. Musclecar concept is to shove a Big V8 with lots of horsepower into a midszied 2 door body, rear drive, manual trans option etc.

    For those that say the GTO isn't a real GTO, got news for you, it's the most POWERFULL Gto ever made. Only to have 400hp. Most powerfull GTO of the 1960's/1970's only made 370hp stock and that was PRE SAE hp. Which really means about 300 instead of 370 by today's standards! Yes I am of the baby boomer generation and remember the 1960's car as a kid when they were new.

    This GTO resembles the other Pontiacs just like the 1964 did! from the front! Nothing wrong with that. I can tell from far away that this GTO is a Pontiac easily with the grille, etc.

    To each their own!

    My 2005 mustang was a :lemon: :lemon:
  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    Nice try,but it didn't work!!! Mustang sold 200,000 units first year because the looks are awesome,the power is great,the nostalgic look is there from the hay day of the 60's!!! Everyone loves it,well at least 200,000 people,and they all can't be wrong!!! New gto,can't claim any of that fame,except it has a 400 hp vette engine,an engine which is not even exclusive to just the gto!! Nice try but you lose again!!!good luck with your mondero though,you'll need it!!!!! :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Sorry to hear about your 'Stang. Someone here had their GTO bought back because of a lot of troubles with it. IIRC, I think it was Robert. No car is immune if you happen to get a bad one.

    Personally, I think they "heydey" of the GTO styling was the late 60s...not the mid 60s.
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