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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    GTO is more the luxury car then the Stang will ever be

    Thank goodness for that! If it was a luxury car, it wouldn't be a Mustang now would it? Unlike some other cars, the Mustang has remained true to its roots.
  • cmnottcmnott Posts: 200
    Unbeleivable.

    I don't know how old this person is, but the level of insecurity creadted by the 2005 Mustang is mind boggling. I have never seen someone get so riled up over a car that they feel discredits theirs.

    The GTO is a nice car. The Mustang too. I really don't know what more gunit can accomplish by listing 6 problems from 100,000 cars. I mean, if gunit was driving a Lexus, i would put more weight into arguments such as quality issues. Instead, coming from GM, it is like the pot calling the kettle black...it is to laugh.

    The thing is, I will put up with inor annoyances with my Mustang because I love the car. If I wanted perfection, I would have bought a Lexus. And a pillow.

    This thread is getting more and more immature. You can discredit Mustang buyers all you want, from being high school kids to not being able to afford a class car like the GTO. My last car cost twice as much as the Mustang, and many others out there just like to have fun. there is no need for arrogance because your car cost a few thousand more, is there?

    Like i said both nice cars. If you can sleep better at night without night sweats of a 2005 Mustang, I'll help you out by saying that the GTO is more powerful, has more room and sounds great. How's that?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    rorr..cmnott...s'pose you're right. I do think the GTO is a good car. Probably, one of the better ones the General has produced, regardless of its origins. I chose the Mustang over the GTO for previously stated reasons.

    If I put down my own money, I'd probably be a little perturbed at GM for leaving it "swinging in the breeze", too. In that same vein, you have to wonder how the folks who bought the SSR are feeling, too? Someone mentioned that the Solstice was just delayed. That's hot on the heels of the big GM recall....GM losing marketshare and billions. I'd be a little frustrated at GM, too.

    Not a slight to the GTO crowd, but while Ford has had its share of foibles, all this is is becoming more the rule rather than the exception with GM, in general. The Mustang is a very bright spot for Ford that shows what the big auto behemoths can do if they get their act together.

    Pontiac is not alone with their general malaise. They are joined by such fabled brands like Mercedes, VW and others.

    Along that same line, who would have thought that Renault (of all companies) could turn around Nissan.

    The Mustang has been a very pleasant surprise within Ford. I don't mind the alluded post about it's comparison to a Camry. Ford and GM could take some lessons from Toyota (just don't take their advice about "muscle coupes"). Now, if Ford can get their act together with putting an engine worthy of the 500 chassis, they may be on to something. They are already on track with hybrid Escapes. The Mazda 3 platform is one of the best out there. The Focus will use it as is the Volvo subsidiary. There is a light at the end of Ford's tunnel.

    GM? Well, the best we can say is wait and see.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Excellent article. Especially with the times being so much slower for both cars, it makes me think they might be more realistic figures.
  • "It was one rare case. Everyone else that posted after that never had that problem at all."

    If we're talking about the same site, I just went back and checked the thread. Since 4/10, six people have confirmed their cars exhibit this problem and have filed complaints with the NHTSA.

    No matter if it's one or six or six hundred, this type of issue is unacceptable on a $30K + vehicle. The margin for error in this price range is very small indeed.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Right on dude! I bought mine for the drive train also. Of course, the fact that the interior has the best quality materials and workmanship of any American car I've ever had didn't hurt. Actually, if it had a cheap interior I wouldn't have sprung for it. I've worked too long to settle for less. And it has the best handling of any American car I've had. If it isn't the best for the money, fine, I'm still more than happy with it.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Those are good observations. The GTO is designed more for the European crowd and is not related to any other living Pontiac. High quality? Definitely. Now, do I like the center stack in the dash? No. I prefer a horizontal look. But not the retro look of the Mustang. It doesn't look like any Mustang I've ever driven. I think its the cost though. The common thread of the Mustang owners seems to be that its cheaper. So, I think if you got the bucks then you go for the GTO. If you don't, you go for the Mustang.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    I agree with you on one count....both interiors, the GTO's and the Mustang's were a drawing card for me. I liked the GTO's interior. When I first saw the aluminum interior of the Mustang, I was quite impressed, too. Mine has the red (ICAP) interior option and that just bowled me over...especially with the aluminum interior. If neither car had an attractive interior, I think both would have been less of a draw.

    Regarding pricing, I don't know if price was the issue with the GTO. In the low-end of the marketplace, price may be more important. But, where the Mustang and GTO tread, I don't think it's as much of a drawing card.

    GTOs did have a bump in sales when GM initially slapped sizeable rebates on them for '04. But, then it trailed off again and dealers were left with too many '04s as leftovers.

    I do think people buy "value". Obviously, the value equation was answered with the Mustang considering how well it has sold. It may just be the reaction to the styling that has been the achilles heal for GTO sales rates. Looking at some of the reactions from people, that is probably the #1 "beef" they have. But, you like the styling so it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

    The mere fact that this thread exists and is so popular should tell you that the market lumps the GTO and the Mustang GT together. It's probably a fair assumption that the two would be cross shopped. It's probably also fair to say that most of us are quite aware of the price ranges between the two cars. The logical conclusion would be that most people in this market know that they are in the high $20s-low $30s price range when looking to buy.

    What we don't know is if the '05 GTO would sell better with more incentives. We'll only know that when we get closer to the end of it's model year and see how many are still lingering (and if GM has to add more incentives to clear them).

    I was originally in the market for a new Corvette (which I knew was going to put me in the low $40s range). I would have been in the Corvette if an accident didn't make me shy away from a fiberglass bodied car.
  • sensaisensai Posts: 129
    The impression I get is the Mustang people think their car is better than the GTO, because it is cheaper and sells more. Both are true, but do not make a car better by any means. The GTO is clearly the better car because it is faster (and not just by a couple tenths as certain magazine racers keep droning), it rides better, has IRS, better interior, better build quality, and useable back seats. Handling is still subjective until we see real track numbers, steering feel is subjective as someone pointed out both cars have been proclaimed better in that regard by different publications. The only real downside is the trunk, which is certainly a factor for some people as usuable back seats is a factor for others. The GTO cost more because clearly it is more of a car. Can anyone deny with a straight face if the GTO had a different badge on it that it would not be declared one of the best cars out there (and certainly not compared to a Mustang)?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    GTO: quicker - yes. I think that's been established. You know, the old f-bodies were quicker than Mustangs too. RIP Camaro.....
    rides better - subjective
    irs - yes (pushrods - yes)
    better interior - subjective
    better build quality? According to......?
    Useable back seats (well, they are MORE useable, yes)
    Handling is subjective. Track numbers don't describe everything. This is why different reviews come to different conclusions.
    Steering feel - uh, I haven't seen the reviewers who preferred the GTO steering response.

    Mustang: quick (just not quickER)
    better shifter - subjective (though seems to be a fairly universal consensus)
    better looks - I'll get to this in a moment
    better brakes - subjective
    better steering feel - subjective
    bigger trunk
    cheaper
    history/heritage/style

    etc. etc. etc.

    Blah, blah, blah. Neither car is the "BETTER" car. When will you guys get it through your head? Every car buyer (EVERY ONE) has a different set of criteria; whichever car it is that is a best fit for THEIR criteria is 'best' for THAT person. Haven't you noticed that most of the 'Mustang people' have said, repeatedly, that the GTO is a good car? I've said it; I know gguy has said it several times. I'll say it again: the GTO is a good car. As a matter of fact, I think it represents a good value (if your priority is performance) Guess what? The Mustang is a 'good car' too. And for some people (apparently a lot of people), the Mustang is a 'better' car......for THEM.

    Why? In this segment, style counts for a lot. You can deny it all you want but it counts. The Mustang has it (though you may not recognize it); the GTO doesn't. The Mustang is INSTANTLY recognizeable as a Mustang; it won't be confused with a Focus, or a Taurus, or a Lincoln, or anything else. Even people who can't tell the difference between a Camry and a Regal know INSTANTLY what the Mustang is. You guys can't tell the difference between a V6 and a GT? What do you expect: different bodies? How many people could tell the difference between a Z28, SS Camaro, and V6 Camaro? Oh, that's right.....badges.

    The GTO? Anonymous. Bland. Typical mid-90's GM soap bubble. It.....ain't....got....no....style. Now for a lot of people, this is a good thing: cop's eyes just kinda slide off of it, kids in Integras don't harass you, sleeper's are kinda cool in their own right. In this sense, it is very much like the original GTO. If you like the anonymous look, GREAT. More power to you. For you, the GTO is 'better'.

    Why is it so important that 'your' car be declared 'better'? You either like your car or not; who cares what everybody else thinks.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    "Why is it so important that 'your' car be declared 'better'? You either like your car or not; who cares what everybody else thinks."

    Agreed.......I don't need nor want any outside approval and/or justification for my Mustang purchase (although there just so happens to be plenty of it from the automotive media, professional testers and about 190,000 other enthusiasts this year).
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    My experience is just the opposite. When I joined the GTO forum it was guys talking about the GTO. First there were guys like you who actually drove the GTO. Now if you actually drive the GTO and still buy a Mustang, well then there isn't much I can say. I'm sure you can afford either car. So you must prefer the Mustang. And more power to you. But after that, ringers started posting. They are here for only one reason, GTO bashing. So I kinda figured you Mustang guys must be a little insecure if you have to come here and talk about the Mustang. Can't we all just get along?

    And then someone started up this forum and it was pretty cool. People started letting it all hang out. And it was good! But personally I'm ready to go back to the GTO forum. I know how you feel you know how I feel. I'm getting the feeling that gunit is pro GTO. Everything's been said. Once in awhile there is something new to comment on. I think I'm going to check out LS1GTO and see what's going on there and get some real world feedback.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,892
    I have appreciated you posts. I enjoyed "debating" with you.

    In all frankness, I do like the GTO. That's why it was on my "short list".

    We just both made different choices for different reasons. That's what makes the world go-round.

    I agree with you. I don't see much more here to dissect.

    Best of luck with your GTO. I know you'll enjoy it.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I agree that price is not an issue when actually buying one of these vehicles. I doubt there is anyone out there that bought a Mustang but really wanted a GTO but just couldn't afford it. What I'm talking about is that I always hear that the Mustang gives you that performance for $24K. Oh, and if comparably equiped is only $29K, still cheaper than the GTO.

    What irks me though is usually, not always, the comparisons are done between a GTO and the stripped down version of the Mustang. For the sake of objectivity I would think one would test comparably equiped cars. But I know the answer to that. The Mustang is so popular there aren't any loaded GTs available for testing.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I know you like the GTO. That's why I was surprised when you turned to the dark side. Just kidding. I like that recent post that said if the Mustang went upscale then it wouldn't be a Mustang. Conversely, if the GTO offered a 6-banger, then it wouldn't be a GTO, it would be a Le Mans. It will be interesting to see what happens when amateur drivers go head to head though.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    ....that I saw over in News and Views.

    Apparently Edmunds is getting reading to do a head to head comparison between the '05 GTO and......

    ......the Subie WRX STi. Carl had the GTO on Tuesday night and the STi last night.
  • Wow, I bet no one here saw that comparison coming. I sure didn't. Should be interesting, though.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Say what? I thought we were finally going to get Edmunds comparison. But with a WRX? That's not a good comparison. Small car, lots of horsepower? Doesn't that sound like the Mustang. And isn't that what we argue about all the time? Oh well. Let us know how it goes anyway, ok.
  • riccaryriccary Posts: 10
    I agree Ron. The other thing is take a look at the GM sales figures. All of the numbers speak for GM - way down. Monte Carlo sales are down 29% this year.

    The union is going to bankrupt GM within the next two years. At that point it won't matter about the GTO. It's a shame.
    GM wonders why they have so many sales problems - get some modern looks and quality. Good looks and quality sells cars.
    At least the Mustang has something America can be proud of that offers both the looks, price and quality.
  • stang22stang22 Posts: 36
    You cannot deny that the GTO is one ugly looking (cavalier) car!!!! Who cares that GM was sooo cheap that they took an existing ugly car,dropped a corvette type engine in it and put a gto emblem on it and called it a GTO--YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! I don't care if the thing has a 1000 horsepower in it,the car is still ugly and it does a huge injustice to the original GTO's.Just because you put a suit on a horses behind,it doesn't make it a thoroughbred!!!.Mustang wins all the way around!! Just on looks it wins,no need to look any further!!! Hey CLUTZ, I MEAN LUTZ, YOU BETTER GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER OVER THERE AT GM BROTHER,AMERICANS DEMAND RETRO MUSCLE CARS,NOT REPO!!!!! :lemon:
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