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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    I think a lot of cars use the GT moniker rather loosely.

    Grand Turismo literally means "big tourer". The "GT"O certainly has the "big" part of the equation down. I suppose it depends on your definition of what a "tourer" is.

    I took my Mustang GT to the KY Derby (about a 300 mile round trip). Frankly, I was quite surprised at how comfortable, fast, quiet (for a car with a rumbling V8), and great handler it was on mostly highway work. I would imagine the GTO would be the same. Where I really enjoyed the GT's handling capabilities were on the winding back roads of KY countryside.

    Rarely do I get any car into the tripple digit speed ranges. When I do, I always make a point of having both hands on the wheel, in the 10-2 position, since anything that might require any sudden steering input is coming at you very fast.

    One of my favorite traits of the Mustang GT is its "point and shoot" capabilities. That is, finding a hole in traffic and aiming it for an open hole. Usually it's done going from 30 to 50 or 50 to 80 (or 70 -100) MPH while using the quick steering to hit th hole and accelerate. That's where the quick steering and the flat suspension really shines. The only other better "point and shoot" car I've ever driven was the RX8. The Mustang gets close to it, though.

    With the GTO, there was a tendency to "overshoot-undershoot" the desired position (or hole). That's a trait of the steering and the softer suspension of the GTO.

    I'll be the first to admit that I put a lot of stock in how a car handles.....probably much more so than most. I'll forgive a firmer ride if the handling is there to back it up.

    Either car would make a fine "tourer" in my estimation, however. Neither car crashes over broken pavement and both dampen well. The Mustang just has more controlled handling than the GTO. Part of that can be attributable to the weight, part of that the steering and part of that is the way GM "tuned" suspension.

    Hitting a "sweeper" that has broken pavement at elevated speeds would tend to cause the wheels to leave the pavement momentarily. While neither the Mustang, nor the GTO does that, the GTO does exhibit "lean" in those types of scenarios. The Mustang stays flat and controlled in the same situations.

    I do believe that Ford "tweaked" the solid rear from initial models that were tested by C&D, for example. Initially, C&D said they occasionally caught the Mustang "side-stepping" over sweepers that were bumpy. They, when they tested again (the convertible, I believe) they found no such behavior. I've never experienced that behavoir either. None of the other people on the 4-5 Mustang boards I read have mentioned it either. So, I'll assume Ford made subtle changes to the production versions of the GT before it got into our hands.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    The GTO was the original American 'Grand Touring' car and preceeded (I think that's a word) the Mustang GT to market. And with its 'ridiculously tall' sixth gear it is perfectly suited for a comfortable high speed drive on the autobahn.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    I would imagine the GTO would make a fine tourer.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    I usually drive 70mph on the freeway. It tachs about 1800 at that speed. Probably getting about 25mpg too. And comfortable as you know.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    Highway driving is where that very tall 6th cog would come in handy, I would imagine. I've always said that I thought the GTO would make a comfy cruiser on the highway.

    The Mustang, at 70 MPH is turning about 2K RPM in 5th gear. I've hit 24 MPG on a road trip, but in all city driving, that drops to about 17-19 MPG (depnding on how "stop & go" traffic is). Admittedly, I keep my foot in in most of the time, though.

    While I didn't test the 6th gear passing times of the GTO when on the highway, I'd be curious how it responds when you have to go from, let's say 65 MPH to 75 MPH to pass. It wouldn't be a problem for me to drop down a cog or two for passing.

    I had to do that all the time when passing on the highway in my RX8, so I got used to it and rather enjoyed it. In know in the Mustang, it has plenty of grunt to pass in 5th, but out of habit, I still drop it down to 4th if I'm looking for a huge upper MPH burst.
  • So you own a stang? yeah those are some pretty sweet looking cars. aside from that I'm 17 and proud to say that I own an old GTO JUDGE and I'll be the proud owner of a kick [non-permissible content removed] new GTO in about another million or so years!

    I've been followin up on the 05 stang vs goat wars you guys have been battling and I can tell ya from a younger guys perspective, the stang IS a beautiful performance machine but come on!!! 400hp with a back seat. It just don't get too much better than that ladies. end of story.
  • All this talk about FORD vs GM is interesting and all that but i'snt the CHARGER coming back? I've seen the little commercial for it and I've got to say I never expected it to be a sedan but it still looks really good. Not tooo much different form the Magnum or the 300c's of course. I've also seen the suped up version of it, the R/T somthin but anyways its supposed to be packin 420HP. The old school muscle is startin to make its comback, can't wait ta see whats next.
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Passing from 65mph in 6th is no problem. If you were in a real hurry you would want to drop it down to 5th. Now accellerating from 50mph is a different story. It will do it but it shimmies a little so it would be best to down shift at that speed. I'm talking about an '04. The '05 has more low end torque, but I don't know about its 6th gear. I only taken '05s up to 70mph.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    sputter.....but isn't it fun to drop down a gear when you want some hellacious acceleration.......? ;)

    On the Mustang, I only use 5th at 60 MPH and above. I'm probably penalizing my MPG, but that's not the reason we bought these cars to begin with, is it?

    How do you feel about the GM employee pricing that was just announced? Good? Bad? Anything changing for the '06 models?

    I know with the Mustang, the only changes for '06 will be a few colors and the availability of 18" tires/wheels (most go aftermarket for those, though).
  • sputterguysputterguy Posts: 383
    Of course there is always that option. I like to accelerate hard, but once I am at cruising speed, whatever it is (35, 45, 65) then I'll go up a gear, just for fuel economy.

    I tried a couple of things on the way in to work today (I start at 6am so its not rush hour) First since I usually drive 70 on the freeway, I dropped it down to 5th to check the rpms. It was 2700. Next I went from 70 or so up to 100 just to check the acceleration. Keep in mind this wasn't full throttle. I never drive full throttle. It wasn't bad but I wasn't exactly pinned to the seat. It took about 10 seconds. Next time, from 70 I will drop it down to 5th gear and then see how it accelerates to 100.

    I was excited about the GM employee pricing until Hammen or somebody said it was better last month. The deal I had was $500 over invoice, the $1K incentive and the dealer through in another $1K. Its still going to cost me a bundle to upgrade. I read that Ford is dropping production by 17K units and GM by 100K. That can only drive down prices. As soon as I find one that I like I am going for it. Some of them feel sluggish to me so I'm waiting for one that feels fresh like the first one I drove.

    New for '06 are a couple of colors, another power outlet, and a button on the console to lock and unlock the doors. The last one should have been on the car from the beginning. It only costs $495 (from the dealer) to upgrade the tires to 18's. I've seriously thought about it, but you know what, the way I drive I really don't need them. Still it would be cool.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    Sputter....you and I differ in the fact that I'm usually with my foot on the gas, to the floor (given a clear road ahead) regularly. I wind mine out to the 6K redline, at least in 1st, usually 2nd, and hopefully 3rd (if I've got plenty of clear road).

    I got used to that with the RX8.....where it didn't "wake-up" until about 4K RPM and had a 9K RPM redline.

    Road, traffic, weather and police willing, I'm rarely under 80-MPH on the highway and usually 15 MPH - 20 MPH over the posted speedlimit in town. I rely a lot on my Passport. Knock on wood, I haven't had any thing even close to an accident or ticket in over 10 years.

    Make no mistake, GM is in trouble and Ford isn't far behind. I think the employee pricing would be good for those who wanted a GTO (not so good if you already qualify for GMS as I do.....we'd rather see more rebates AND GMS).

    I hope both Ford and GM get their act together. I know the Mustang won't be going away. It's my hope that the General sees fit to continue development on the GTO, regardless of the platform it uses.

    That said, next year I'll be in the market for a truck (to replace my Vibe/Matrix). In my estimation, no one makes a better truck than either GM or Ford......period.....regardless of that stuff that Honda or Toyota has brought to market pretending to be trucks (I guess we have to throw Nissan into the mix, too....not that I'd consider their trucks).
  • minerkminerk Posts: 5
    I own an 05 Mustang GT, and Sat. I bought a GMC Canyon, but while I was at the dealership I decided to check out the GTO to see what all the fuss is about. I didn't drive it, although I probably could have if I asked, so I can't comment on handling/performance.

    Interior: the GTO has the stang beat hands down, no questions about it. The mustang is nice, but let's face it, it ain't luxury.

    Exterior: Mustang, no question. GM could and should have done so much better with the exterior of the GTO. When I first saw the Mustang it hit a nerve, when I see the GTO I think "blah". Flame away on the understated style, yadda, yadda, yadda.

    I didn't sit in the backseat of the goat, but just for kicks today I climbed into the back of the stang (I'd actually never been back there). It was OK, obviously not somewhere I'd want to ride on a long trip, but actually more comfortable than the rear seat of a full size extended cab pickup. I didn't look at the trunk on the goat, but the mustang is pretty good, and with the rear seats folded down there's actually a lot of room.

    I'm a GM guy at heart, I hated mustangs from 73 to 04. If I had it to do over again would I buy the stang again? You bet. Would I pay $5k+ more to have a nicer interior and marginally better performance? Nope.

    I think it's ridiculous to even compare the two cars on a perf. basis, since the GTO has 33% more ponies, it SHOULD perform better than the stang. In fact, if I owned one I'd be disappointed that it doesn't beat the stang by more than it does.

    Flame away...
  • gtojudgegtojudge Posts: 1
    Yeah sure, if ya like the hey everybody lets jump on the retro band wagon styling because everbody else is and we ran out of new mustang concept ideas then I belive you purchased a winner. I really hope ya have fun seeing one everytime your
    out and about, provided you actually HAVE a life.
    Me personally, I like the fact that pontiac didn't decide to go too retro, Im a progressive kinda guy what can I say. The mustang, looker, yes but what else???

    Just Know this, that 33% more pony than that little pony logo in front of your car WILL eat you alive, off a light,on the highway, Wherever, and the guy whose driving, WILL flick you off and eat you again at the next light.
    No hard feelings, after all, ya get what ya pay for, if your faster your faster. End of story.

    Consider yourself BURNED.
  • trueustrueus Posts: 5
    Whats amazing about the 05 GTO is that there are at least 12 of them running around my small town. Thats compared to the 5 Mustang 05. And whats really sad is only 2 of those mustangs are V8's. Now, whats even more sad is pontiac's desperate attemp to beat ford. They just had to give the goat 400hp to beat the mustang. But it doesn't really matter now cuz new buyers are paying 10k more for that 33% more ponies. With the money saved, the new ford owners can buy a new stock supercharger option which give up to 58% more ponies. That would put a mustang GT 05 at roughly 450 hp. So whos really flicking who off now? I agree with your philosphy on getting what you pay for. If you pay for a 05 GTO, you get an overpriced grand prix with a 400hp engine. If you pay for an 05 mustang GT, you get an American legend, that started the retro look(chevy is copying the retro look for their camaros by the way), and you save money. But, with that saved money on a true car, you can afford to buy the supercharger and still have money left over to take all of those gorgeous women ,who rejected the loser in the GTO, out for a night on the town. Night after night after night. :P
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "If you pay for an 05 mustang GT, you get an American legend, that started the retro look...."

    Umm, no.

    Does New Beetle, PT Cruiser, Thunderbird, or Chevy SSR ring any bells? Mustang is simply the LATEST in the current crop of retro cars. IMO, it is certainly the best of the retro cars, but it certainly isn't the first.

    "...new buyers are paying 10k more for that 33% more ponies."

    Only if they have rocks in their heads. MSRP for the GTO is around $33k. I think the last time the average Joe paid MSRP for a GTO was, ummm, the first 3 days the '04 models arrived. OTOH, deals on new Mustang GT's are few and far between. And good luck actually FINDING one (a 'base' GT no less) for the theoretical price of $25k.

    Caparably equipped, the two cars are probably around $2-4k difference in selling price. That's a far cry from $10k.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    Burned??????????????

    Believe what you will. Makes no never mind to me.

    Performance is so close, it's a driver's race.....at most!

    That 100HP difference on the GTO is eaten up by 300+ pounds more weight and a less than precise shifter (in comparison). Plus, there's more than circumstantial evidence that the Mustang is putting out closer to 320HP and is underated at 300HP.

    All that explains that the '04 GTO (with 350 HP) is a couple of 1/10ths slower than the '05 Mustang and the '05 GTO (100HP) is only a tenth or two faster than the '05 Mustang GT. To me, the numbers are so close between the '05 Mustang GT and either the '04 or '05 GTO that it really is of no significance.

    Again, believe what you will, though.
  • minerkminerk Posts: 5
    As for getting smoked by the GTO, if I ever actually see one we'll see what happens. I guess that's why they actually have races rather than sitting around talking about whose car is faster. From your comments I gather that you don't actually own a GTO, so who are you to question whether I have a life or not? You apparently have nothing better to do than flame people on the 'net about cars you don't have. As for all performance all the time, I can strap a whipple on my mustang and smoke any GTO for the same amount of money. OTD the stang was $26k, $5500 for a whipple = 450+ hp, 450+ ft lb for $31.5k total.

    I actually did run it against a Corvette leaving a nearby city a few weeks ago, knew I was outmatched, but did it for fun (don't know why you'd feel the need to flip someone off if you beat 'em, maybe you need to grow up) rolling start at about 65, stayed right there to about 120-125, then he walked away from me. Was I surprised? Yeah, I was surprised that the Mustang stayed as close as it did to 120. Was I pissed that I lost? No. Was it fun anyway? OH YEAH!!! Did he flip me off? No, he waved with all his fingers, it was fun for both of us.
  • sensaisensai Posts: 129
    Your never going to get off the ridiculous notion of it being a driver's race, are you?

    Well you can believe what you want, because in real life and not the life of magazine racing, the 350hp 04 GTO has been proven faster than the 05 Mustang. Against the 05 GTO, there is no contest.
  • sensaisensai Posts: 129
    Great. Throw a supercharger on the Mustang so you can beat the GTO. And someone can throw a turbo on a Civic and smoke you. Do you see the stupidity of that logic now? Your Mustang brand new is still a slower, lower quality car than the GTO. Dosen't mean anything is wrong with it, but as someone said you get what you pay for.
  • trueustrueus Posts: 5
    Its really odd how you say its a lower quality car. You say lower quality, the sales of them say otherwise. My coworker Pam, just bought an 05 GTO, she loved it, until the left axle shaft went out, in the first week. She doesn't drive it hard either.
    And it really is amazing how the GTO fanatics are bragging over a 10th of a second. And if you put a turbo on a civic, it still wouldn't be able to beat a stock Mustang. Just face it, the GTO is an overpriced grand prix. If pontiac wants to continue selling cars, they really need to change the looks of the Grand Am, GTO, Boneville, and Grand Prix. They all look alike. What other Ford does the mustang look like? Or how bout the Thunderbird, or even the focus?
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,228
    Again, if it makes you feel better, believe what you will. I've driven both. I proved it to myself. I come from the bracket racing (and plenty of autox, too) world. The difference between either the '04 GTO (1/10th or two slower) or the '05 GTO (1/10th or two faster) than the Mustang GT is still insignificant anywhere else other than a closed track.

    From the sounds of your posts, I suspect you've yet to be on a track....in anything.

    Trying to take a swipe at the Mustang as somehow being a "lower quality" car is just nonsense.

    Drive what you like, though. That's always the case.
  • gottabgtogottabgto Posts: 95
    You should have drove it.
    It's a blast to drive - just steppin on that accelerator and getting that incredible response - is a total rush.
  • minerkminerk Posts: 5
    I doubt I'd get any better feel out of it than I do my Mustang, I don't think a tenth or two would feel any different, especially stuck in traffic around town... I did step on the accelerator, and it did sound sweet and powerful. Notice I never said it wasn't a good car, and didn't bash it in any way, do I think it has a better interior than the mustang? yep, do I think it has a better exterior? Nope--YMMV, do I think there's a huge difference in performance? Nope. Would I buy one? No--again, YMMV.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    You really need to review the sales stats on the GTO for 2005. The vehicle is near sold out on the West Coast. You stated the sales in May were 1,100 units, even if it was at that number the sales expectation was nearly met and I know that GM is selling more than 1,000 units basically per month. You are also way wrong on the numbers for total sales for '05. That total was reached in the beginning of the 1st quarter. The GTO is not falling way behind the mark as you have stated. It is exceeding sales expectations, and if its nearly sold out on the West Coast then I am quite sure its doing fine elsewhere in places such as Florida and Texas. Get your facts straight.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    The problem is lot of people don't understand that 0-60 in 4.6 or 4.7 seconds in the GTO is a vast difference in performance with a 0-60 in 5.1 or 5.2 seconds in with the Mustang GT. Trust me, that is a big difference and when you look at the 1/4 mile times the GTO simply wipes out the Mustang GT, flat out wipes it out at 13.00 seconds @ 108 MPH whereas the Mustang GT is 13.99@99 MPH. That is like a million galaxies apart when it comes to performance. Also take into some consideration the GTO is much heavier than the Mustang GT because it has a bit more sophisticated internals such as IRS. Stop reading the magazines, and go try one out.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    The truth is the Camaro is not coming back. That was simply a rumor. Yeah, go ahead and void your warranty. The fact is the GTO owner doesn't need to do any modifications of any sort that could ruin his or her warranty. Sure some dealers are installing headers, etc, but that is under their warranty and I'd like to see the repercussions of a dealer lets say you move somewhere else honor that warranty or even the factory warranty for that matter. Superchargers aren't cheap, and the fact you have to pay for labor to have a professional install it, you still come up a bit short in cash and prolly close what you pay for the extra costs GTO (not to mention warranty issues). GTO owners get a nice fat 3 3/4 dual exhaust pipes, no mods needed, they get a bitchin' 6.0 liter torque and horsepower monster at 400 HP and 400 FT LBS without resorting to aftermarket. So if you add in that Supercharger and expect 450 HP off a 300 HP 4.6 liter engine, I think you are being lied to. Superchargers require hp from the engine, so it bleeds some of the performance before you get more performance. I sincerely doubt you'll get that 450 HP at the rear wheels on a Supercharged Mustang GT (more like 345 to maybe 350 HP). The GTO owner if he or she supercharged their GTO, yes, absolutely 450 HP right to the rear wheels.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    1/10th of a second is big at 108 MPH. The Mustang was so close to 14.00 at a paltry 99 MPH. Not that its bad performance, it actually great, but the fact is the GTO beat the Mustang GT in both 0-60 times and 1/4 mile times. Just because the GTO has 400 HP/400 FT LB don't expect a blistering 12.00 second 1/4 mile times and sub 4.0 to 3.0 second 0-60 times. Heck the supecharged Ford GT is rated at 3.5 seconds in 0-60 and it has 550 Horsepower. Its fast, but at 150 extra horses in comparison to the GTO's 400 HP and 0-60 in 4.6 seconds you would think the Ford GT should be pulling 3.0 seconds at Zero to Sixty dead on. For all its worth the GTO is a performer, maybe not a looker, but a dammed good car for the money and the quality is the best I have ever seen from GM (though its Holden who actually builds the car). Its a lot more comfortable than the Mustang GT too.
    The Mustang performs well enough and looks fabulous, but until the new GT500 Shelby arrives it will get eaten up alive by Subaru's WXRi and Pontiac's GTO.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    :surprise: really. Ironic that the automatic GTO is faster than the manual and yet the manual GTO does outperform the Mustang GT from all the stats. It really depends on the driver in terms of shifting, but the auto GTO will consistently beat the snot out of the Mustang GT on any given day no matter who is driving.
  • victor6victor6 Posts: 7
    Only the GTO is comparible to the M3 with 4.6 to 4.7 Zero to Sixty times. The Mustang GT is still in 5.1 to 5.2 Zero to Sixty territory. Not shabby, but still beat by the imports. :P
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    The GTO owner if he or she supercharged their GTO, yes, absolutely 450 HP right to the rear wheels.

    Best part about the LS2 is that the engine has SOOO much potential. It doesn't even need a blower. An LS2 with a hot cam, headers and a free flowing air intake would put down 450rwhp. That's another reason I'd pick the GTO, just for the mod potential. PCM, too. Where's the tools to tune a Ford PCM? Maybe OBD-I fox body mustangs but who cares about those.
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