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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • The import dominated sporty coupe market necessarily don't have that much style either. Civic or Scion or Neon? Just as bland as my GTO if not more so. I thought Focus hatchback was downright ugly, my opinion. I think it will be hard to convince a lot of those young folks to buy a American car. They like many others percieve the American cars to be bad and foreign good. False Stereotypes, the US cars have done a lot of catch up in the past 10 yrs.

    Dif topic, but Accord/Camrys are among the DULLEST/boring looking cars on the road, YAWN...yet are #1 sellers? Style isn't always everything.
  • Gxpgtodanman,
    my comparison to BMW was that both have an understated type of style and performance. BMW's is elegant, timeless; myself, most people I've talked to and EVERY single article I've read say the GTO's is too bland and lackluster. (But as you say, these are just subjective opinions.) Unlike Ford with the Mustang, it seems GM took a great performing Australian sports sedan and gave it a famous American muscle car name. Its styling seems like an afterthought, and like the Dodge Charger, only representative of the classic model in name. Since the last GTO was made in 1974, how can a 30 year gap be a great history of quality and performance? Both the Mustang and the BMW have been around for most of the last three decades, so both have become household names. Not only does the new Mustang have award-winning styling, but it seems as if Ford has eliminated the Pony’s flaws and greatly accentuated its strengths.

    As for the stylistic comparison to other more basic Pontiacs/GM, I'm not sure why this seems to offend some GTO owners. I have no problem knowing my 2005 GT looks remarkably like a more common, basic V6. I’m willing to bet the vast majority of objective observers regardless of their age will say the GTO looks very much like a Grand Am, Cavalier, etc. As for their being another 189,999 people on the road with 2005 Mustangs, I could care less. It’s a great car and its sales numbers are representative of that. I don’t base my buying decision on what others are buying or not buying. I can use the aftermarket to personalize my car and the large numbers of other Stang Drivers guarantee available parts and comrades-in-rubber burning.

    Rorr handled the 1968/2005 Mustang copy comment exceedingly well….much better than I could at least. I agree though the GTO should command attention. It is a great performing, rare car. Whether Mustangs are technically Classics are not is simply semantics. I and thousands of Americans would die for a Non-Classic Mustang GT, Shelby, GTO, or Charger.

    Bland cars like the Civic, Accord, and Camry sell well, because they are reliable "automotive appliances." Their buyers do not expect much performance or wow factor; they just want dependable, cost effective transportation. There are many sport coupes with style, however. Scion is ALL style if you talk to young buyers as are certain new options from Pontiac and Saturn (Solstice and Sky). Most sports car buyers, however, want performance with looks. This is the connection that I find lacking in the GTO and abundant in the Mustang.

    Elias,
    I agree the GTO offers a great deal of performance for a great price. No one can dispute it will beat a stock Mustang GT, but the difference is not significant to me. Nor is it to every comparison I've read. But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    But if that's the case, then NOTHING replaced the Camaro and, as I've pointed out, that simply means that GM abandoned that market COMPLETELY to Ford. Sad.

    Gee, think this may have happened before? Hint: B-Body.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    You are right, style does sell in some cases.

    However IMHO there is more to a car then just styling.


    Ever since I was, oh I dunno, in 6th grade, I have always said I'd rather have a car that looks like a junker but goes fast (sleeper) than a car that looks "cool, yo" but goes slow (I think we know who this is).
  • This GTO is true to form in name and function. Big V8 engine in a 2 door rear drive midsized rebadged coupe. Original GTO's were an option on Tempest/Lemans. They looked just like the other pontiacs in the lineup of that era. So why do people complain this GTO looks too much like other Pontiacs? People need to go back to the 1960's early 1970's. GTO is a household name too. Anyone that knows anything about cars has heard that name. The new Mustang is nice but a new set of flaws came with the 2005 Stang, like defective gas tanks, radios, etc. I believe they have been corrected. I personally would NEVER buy a first year american car.

    I don't buy mass produced cars like Camry-Accord-Mustang etc. I don't want to have what everyone else on the block does. My GXP is a company car, didn't buy it. But to each their own!!

    Lets get one thing straight, the V6 Mustang does NOT have performance, it's looks only, just like the ones on the Hertz rental lot, my family Acura is faster/better performing and better built. Only the V8 model has performance. The scion with the Toyota dealer installed Supercharger is FASTER then V6 Stang !! And not much more $$, $21k. Accord coupe will blow the doors off V6 stang too. 5.9 seconds with Stick. In fact it will run with the V8 Mustang !!

    "But again, to be fair, give me 3-4 grand to even the price delta and a "supped" Mustang will outperform a GTO."

    But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL!

    I thik we have talked this to death already, time to move on. In the End we can AGREE to DISAGREE then.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Accord coupe will blow the doors off V6 stang... In fact it will run with the V8 Mustang !!

    :surprise: :surprise:

    Umm... Don't think so. Not even the previous generation GT.
  • "Umm... Don't think so. Not even the previous generation GT."

    I think so. Accord V6 coupe is same or faster then previous generation Mustang GT V8.

    1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 ran high 5's to low 6's
    2003 and on Accord V6 coupe ran high 5's.

    Good drivers race. :P
  • "The new Mustang is nice but a new set of flaws came with the 2005 Stang, like defective gas tanks, radios, etc. I believe they have been corrected. I personally would NEVER buy a first year american car."

    I like buying good American cars and had no problem buying a first year model in the case of the new Mustang. Don't think that the new GTO is without its own problems. Check the boards…and good luck with parts shipped from Australia.

    "But the GTO already has better interior, better seats, better build quality, usuable backseat, IRS, etc. Getting C6 Corvette drivetrain for $15k less. It would take a lot more $4k to fix that in mustang. It's not all about going fast. It's quality too. Mustang is a pony car. A cheap car to go fast. Just like F bodies were. GTO is more of a luxury performance car that still out performs the stang in every category according to MPH , C&D etc. Everyone knows the GTO won the C&D comparo where it counted except the ultimate 1 point loss because of "Got to have it" factor, LOL! "

    “Cheap” is a relative term...I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued at more than your used GTO in the current market...even with your Corvette drive train and supposedly better quality...and these were two cars that were similar in price when new...and the performance charactersitics were not that much different to sway me away from a Mustang GT.

    I’m not sure what GM was thinking when it re-badged an Australian built car with the GTO name. It's a nice car for sure, but The GTO appears to be a band aid approach to this market until GM brings back the Camaro...a car that was available in different models, has a long and respected North American history, and could compete with the Mustang across the board of this market.
  • " I thik we have talked this to death already, time to move on. In the End we can AGREE to DISAGREE then."

    True dat! In the end, we both love our respective hot rods and can easily compete with cars costing twice as much. But isn't this whole thread about a Goat vs. Pony debate? I must say though that the comparison of a 2005 Mustang GT with a V6 Accord is suspect. Not only is a similarly equipped Accord thousands more, the Mustang is nearly a second faster in 0-60. The Accord wins on finish and reliability, but the Mustang is the performance and styling king. If a stock GTO outperforms a stock Mustang GT (which it does by all of a 2-3 tenths), then a stock Mustang GT decimates the Accord. Let's stick to the same standard.....

    If the GTO was such a great car, sales numbers would support that. Yet the opposite is true. I think most people (who aren't going to the track) don't consider performance numbers the end all, be all to buying a car. And the performance differences between the GTO and Mustang GT are not huge.

    The Stang has much more than "WoW Factor"...C&R says it best...
    "So what was the Mustang's appeal? Well, we're suckers for a great body, and the Mustang looks a lot better than the GTO. Disparage the Mustang's '60s styling if you must, but get ready to face the reality that the GTO's banality is pure '90s. Furthermore, the Mustang wins because when you take it in, as a total package, the Ford makes better sense. Pick apart the Mustang's laundry list of simple components, and it will seem to be less of a car than the GTO, but drive the Mustang, and it feels like far more than the sum of its parts. That is the draw of the Mustang: It makes the most of what it has, doesn't suffer for what it doesn't have, charges you less than you'd expect, and beckons from the showroom until you come and take it home."
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    "I’m not sure what GM was thinking when it re-badged an Australian built car with the GTO name."

    believe I posted this about 100pgs back, but I'm sure they were thinking "Hey this Aussie coupe is fast, has a really cool interior, drives great, seems to be screwed together well, and we could sell it for around $30k in the US. I bet we could move around 15,000/yr. Let's import some. Hey we could call it a GTO."

    I like the way mine looks other than a slightly awkward treatment of the rear quarters, (makes the wheels look small). Do I wish I had a Mustang GT instead - no way! Do I expect Mustang ownres to prefer my GTO - no, that's why they bought Mustangs. Both nice cars - I like mine better.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,916
    i hear ya vp-preacher re the mustang plus $3k or $4k of mods. maybe we'll see some real world examples with modded mustangs like that vs stock GTOs. even without the mods, i agree with you that the difference in performance is just not that significant. i'm just busting chops when i say stuff to tweek you mustang dudes about the 'superior' GTO. and in the PR department, i think chrysler has beat both ford & GM with the iaccoca/snoopdogg ads - those are just too funny. automotive CEOs GONE WILD.
  • "I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued at more than your used GTO in the current market"

    Not sure since KBB does not have resale/used data on '05 GTO or '05 GT yet posted. Too new. However for 2004 resale data....
    Kelley blue Book Private Party mint condition, 12k miles similar equipped 2004 Mustang Gt vis 2004 GTO

    2004 Mustang worth $19,235 sold privately
    2004 GTO worth $23,385 sold privately

    GTO is worth $4k more. Enough said!!
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 ran high 5's to low 6's
    2003 and on Accord V6 coupe ran high 5's.


    You're comparing the automatic GT to the manual Accord. The manual GT from that era runs mid-5s 0-60. The manual Accord runs very high 5s to mid-6s 0-60. The Accord would be smoked.

    Comparing auto-to-auto, the GT from that era ran high 5s to low 6s 0-60. The Accord is mid-6s to low 7s 0-60.

    Apples to apples, the Accord would be thoroughly smoked. :P
  • GTO played the spoiler, because there is a high probability that it took away 15k to 18k sales the V8 Mustang would have gotten. Ha! We'll never know. Hopefully GM makes a newer Camaro.

    Both cars did well in the C&D test. Mustang 211, GTO 210 in points. Very close!

    From C&D "With 6.0 liters of power, it won most of the performance tests as well as the fun-to-drive category"

    I would have liked if they could have made a cheaper version of the GTO, maybe cloth seats, etc. Then again that would have cost to much, the car was already in production in Aussie land. GM already spent enough $$ making sure the car met US standards.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    2004 Mustang worth $19,235 sold privately
    2004 GTO worth $23,385 sold privately

    GTO is worth $4k more. Enough said!!


    You're not serious?? :confuse:

    That's not even the same Mustang! Come on, buddy. This thread is Ford Mustang (2005+) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO.
  • Comparing Stick vs stick. Very close race, drivers race, here are the numbers. What do you think?

    1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 runs 5.6 seconds Manual shift
    2003- Accord V6 coupe runs 5.9 seconds Manual shift

    Wow .3 seconds dif, Small dif to me.

    I am NOT an accord or Japanese car fan either. Esp after my 1 Acura. Just pointing out that some cars are faster then you think.
  • Re-read my previous post, As I said, there is NO data on 2005 GTO vs 2005 Mustang Resale from KBB yet. Otherwise I would have posted it. Mustangs just like any other American car, GTO depreciate pretty fast.

    As for 2004 resales , I stand corrected, the numbers don't lie.

    Furthermore, when a lot of these 200,000+, 2005 Mustangs come up for lease and the used car market is flooded 3 yrs from now, that will really KILL/plummet the used car value on the 2005.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Thought I'd drop in to see what's "cooking".

    I see many of the same discussions as months ago.

    Regarding resale....we all know that the '05 Mustang GTs are tough (if not impossible) beasts to find. My dealer is totally sold out of all '05 GTs as well as his allotment of '06 GTs through January '06.

    I've had 3 offers on my '05 GT with 4,000 miles on the clock. All of them were MSRP offers ($28K). One was even from a Toyota dealership.

    From what I can tell, around here, used '04 GTOs are in the paper for about $22.5K "asking price". '05s GTOs are about $25K "asking price". I'd assume they can be bought for less than that.....say $21K for the '04s (although, I've seen them sell for $19K) or $23K-$24K for used '05s.

    That said, there's still a few new '04 GTOs lingering on the lots and a good selection (over 50) of new '05s hanging around the dealers within about a 25 mile radius of me.

    From Terry (rroyce), the resident trade value guru, responding to a post I made a few weeks ago....

    ".. **but my 4 month old '05 Mustang GT, with 3K miles on the odo had an offer of $28K from a Toyota dealer. I paid $25,500 this past winter for it (X plan). That $28K number is the MSRP. Don't know if that's a good reference point, but it gives you an idea of how crazy that market is.** ...

    That's a pretty safe reference point right now ... $28,0 from a Yota dealer doesn't surprise me, he could either run it off to the auction and get $29/$30,0 depending on the day and barometric pressure or sell off the lot and get get get, well whatever he gets ..l.o.l... the first one I bought I paid more than you at $27,5 but sold it 72 hrs later for $29,9 .... I've seen Ford, Lexus even Benz dealers step up and pay some stupid money for the pre-owned, so they must be selling ........."

    Terry.
  • "From what I can tell, around here, used '04 GTOs are in the paper for about $22.5K "asking price". '05s GTOs are about $25K "asking price". I'd assume they can be bought for less than that."

    As I said, I will base my resale numbers of KBB or NADA etc, before someone else assuming/posting on the internet.

    Let me know 3 to 5 yrs from now what your 2005 Mustang gets? I'm sure it's 50% to 66% loss in value !!

    Not many people are selling their car the 1st they buy it unless they are usually have some kind of financial hardship or are Rich and don't care.
  • Graphic,

    If you can supposedly sell your New Mustang for a $2,500 profit right now, then why don't you? You would be crazy not to. I certainly would. Something sounds fishy there.

    Best of luck.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "GTO played the spoiler, because there is a high probability that it took away 15k to 18k sales the V8 Mustang would have gotten."

    How do you figure that? The only thing that limited Ford's capacity to SELL V8 Mustangs was their ability to PRODUCE V8 Mustangs. When people are waiting months for the opportunity to get a Mustang GT, what makes you think Ford could have sold a single unit more if the GTO didn't exist?

    I'll turn it around: how many '05 GTO sales are due to people who would have PREFERRED to buy a Mustang but didn't want to wait? Hmmmmmmm?
  • "Don't think that the new GTO is without its own problems. Check the boards…and good luck with parts shipped from Australia. "

    Never said the GTO didn't have problems, but at least I can put gas in it. Ford finally fixed that. As for parts from Austraila? True. Some of the Mustang parts, like the Shaker, no it's not in reference to the solid rear axle, the shaker radio, were on national backorder with waiting times too!!

    “Cheap” is a relative term...I’m sure my used Mustang Premium GT Convertible with Interior Upgrade Package is valued

    As we all know, Convertible are NOT as safe in a collision as a hardtop, esp if you flip over. less ridgity

    many of the items you had to PAY for are std on GTO.

    Locking gas cap door, built into glass radio antenna, hood struts, Not available on Mustang
    Shaker stereo is OPTION, while Blaupunkt is std on GTO
    Leather wrapped wheel/shifter and other interior appointments OPTION, STD on GTO
    Leather interior, Optiona, STD on GTO
    Anti-theft alarm and Auto tranny OPtiona, STD on GTO
    No Std V8 on Mustang, unrefined truck derived V6 of Explorer/Ranger fame. Very noisy @ high rpms.
    No IRS, std on GTO.

    The List goes on and on. There is a reasaon why Stang start at $19k or $20k.
  • "How do you figure that? The only thing that limited Ford's capacity to SELL V8 Mustangs was their ability to PRODUCE V8 Mustangs. When people are waiting months for the opportunity to get a Mustang GT, what makes you think Ford could have sold a single unit more if the GTO didn't exist"

    I am pretty certain the GTO took some of the high end premium GT V8 Mustang sales away as well as G35 / 350z etc.

    Sorry, I would never wait months or pay MSRP for any car. Wait until the 2nd or 3rd year when demand drops and better deals come out. Next year's Mustang will have 450hp, I would wait. That is why I waited for 2005 GTO, 400 vs 350hp. But to each their own. There is no car that "I got to have"

    "I'll turn it around: how many '05 GTO sales are due to people who would have PREFERRED to buy a Mustang but didn't want to wait? Hmmmmmmm?"

    Actually on the GTO boards, there a few people who dumped/sold/traded in their 2005 Mustangs on 2005 GTO's.. Go figure? Never heard of someone trading in their new GTo for a new Mustang though. Must tell you something.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Actually on the GTO boards, there a few people who dumped/sold/traded in their 2005 Mustangs on 2005 GTO's."

    Three thoughts immediately spring to mind:

    1) BS. Don't believe everything you read.
    2) Perhaps they pick the car up at a relatively good price (like gguy has), re-sold the car for a profit, and used the extra profit to get a GTO. In other words, they leveraged themselves into a GTO. When a car is in as much demand as the current Mustang GT, I can see it.
    3) They bought the car with drag racing as a primary motivation and then lost to a GTO at a race. Got PO'd, sold the Mustang and bought the GTO.

    In other words, some folks buy cars based primarily on 1/4 mile times. A few of them occasionally show up in this thread.

    "Never heard of someone trading in their new GTo for a new Mustang though."

    Why would they do that? The GTO IS a very good car after all.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    Nothing fishy.....

    Crazy not to? Why? I love the car. By the time I order another one, it's going to take until next Spring for me to get it. My dealer did the X plan deal last winter (among the worst winters in recent memory) when they had scant little business, at all....on any vehicle. I can't cut that same deal today.....it's MSRP, now.

    I was tempted to sell it to the Toyota dealership but knew I couldn't replace it in the foreseeable future.

    You can doubt me if you want, doesn't matter to me, but Terry over at Real World Trade in Values is the acknowledged "final source" about car values.

    Speaking of trades, many people that had '04 GTOs traded them for '05 Mustang GTs.

    I'd say that the only people who jumped from the Mustang GT to the GTO would be the ones who coudln't get the Mustang due to the strong demand. I was one of them. If my Mustang hadn't come in, I considered the GTO. Very glad I stuck it out and waited to get what I wanted.

    I've seen GTO's, 350Zs...even one 330i traded for a Mustang GT. Now, would I trade a 330i for a Mustang? Nope! But someone wanted the Mustang bad enough to do just that.

    When my RX8 was totalled, I had the opportunity to buy whatever I wanted with the insurance check. Could have bought another RX8 (not such a bad thing) or a 350Z (another good choice).

    I'd never tell me dealer this, but I would have paid $28K MSRP (with IUP aluminum dash, side airbags, active anti-theft, Shaker, ICAP red leather interior) to get my Mustang. As luck would have it, I only had to pay x-plan price of $25.5K, which was icing on the cake.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I am pretty certain the GTO took some of the high end premium GT V8 Mustang sales away..."

    Yes, I'm sure that some people looked at the two cars, and decided to buy the GTO instead. But you can't say that Ford has somehow LOST sales since they simply can't keep up with demand. If Honda were to find a way to sell an Accord V6 for $10,000 but their factory couldn't produce more than 100k units a year, would it be your position that Toyota had somehow 'took sales away' from Honda because they still sold some Camrys?

    "Sorry, I would never wait months or pay MSRP for any car."

    On general principals, neither would I. And when it comes to the Mustang, personally I wouldn't wait months or pay over MSRP either. My question though is - how many buyers of '05 GTO's, if they COULD have bought a Mustang GT off the lot for less than MSRP, WOULD have?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Comparing Stick vs stick. Very close race, drivers race, here are the numbers. What do you think?

    1999 to 2004 Mustang V8 runs 5.6 seconds Manual shift
    2003- Accord V6 coupe runs 5.9 seconds Manual shift

    Wow .3 seconds dif, Small dif to me.


    That's a larger difference than between the '05 GT and '05 GTO! You guys swear up and down that the .1s difference between the GTO and GT is "no contest," but you have the audacity to say that the .2s - .3s difference between the old GT and an Accord is "a drivers race????" :surprise: :confuse: :confuse: :surprise:

    Come on, buddy. And the Mustang's time was 5.4s. A half second faster than the Accord! And you call that a drivers race?
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    Can you guys stop quoting magazine 0-60s? It's driving me crazy. At the speed level these cars are at, 1/4 mile performance is a far better indicator of straight line acceleration. Magazine 1/4 miles barely cut it, but they're better than 0-60s. One of the reasons the 1/4 mile is better is because you get TWO pieces of information with it - the time it took to drive the distance and the average speed the car was going as it crossed the lights at the end. It is the trap speed that shows the GTO has a significant power to weight ratio advantage and in, say, 3rd gear acceleration from 60mph, it wouldn't be a "driver's race" at all. Can the mustang keep up with a GTO around town off a light? Sure, that's a driver's race. But that's not the car, it's the driver.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,238
    I've always said it's a driver's race between these two. Other factors will go into it also...like the ability of the tranny (mainly manuals) and how positive or sloppy the shifter is going to be from one gear to the next. Launch techniques will also be a factor. You can slice and dice the numbers anyway you want but the fact of the matter is....stoplight to stoplight, there's not going to be a bumper's depth of difference between the Mustang and the GTO in a street race.

    Unfortunately, the only reliable numbers we have come from sources like the trade rags. I'm not going to believe your numbers on the track and you aren't going to believe mine....regardless of any time slips posted (who's to say the time slip isn't from a different race).
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    ....but isn't there, perhaps, a bit more to choosing a car than just 1/4 times and odds in a stoplight race?

    If you're main intent is quick ET, aren't there better bang for the buck choices than EITHER of these two vehicles? Or is it all simply what used to be called 'barstool racing'.

    Besides, just how often do you think a Mustang owner would just happen to be lined up at a stoplight with a GTO? Gguy, how often has this happened to you? Is it really worth it for the 2-3 times a year this might happen?
This discussion has been closed.