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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • Quote:
    To me, that difference is insignificant and certainly couldn't/shouldn't be duplicated on the street

    What I was trying to point out is that the time slips show that the 04 GTO started of a bit worse than the 05 GT (for all intents a purposes, they were the same). It then managed to pulled ahead and kept pulling ahead slightly, as shown by the 1000' and 1/4 mile times. To me this says that the 04 GTO out accelerated the 05 GT (also, I was being pretty easy on the shifting, wheel spin was definately a factor even going into 4th).

    Yes it is a small difference but is an indicator.

    Yes there are guys running the 05 GT in to the mid 13's, but there are also guys running the 04 GTO in to the low 13's.

    When the new mustang came out and I saw one or two on the road, I thought they looked pretty good. The more I see them the more it looks inconsistent with the styling. Sometimes when I see one at a certain angle or color, it really makes me go 'Ewww!' A lot is personal preference, but my coworkers, who loved the new style, are starting to say the same thing. I hand it to Ford, the style was a marketing coop, but I think it is going to get old fast. Also where do they go from here? Retro the 1971 fastback look? I just don't see an obvious direction that the design can go from here.

    One of the things I really like about the GTO styling is it is not an 'in your face' look. Most people don't give it a second glance until they hear the exhaust (this includes boys in blue). With my new wheels and tires, the looks have changed, but the car is still overlooked by most people.
    http://www.bobthephotoguy.com/Rims/

    Anyways....

    discussion and debate is always fun. :-)

    Bob
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    I haven't had time to read all of/digest your post, but wanted to point out a couple of things.

    First, I have seen an instrument panel photo from a GTO at 177 mph. The tach is where it should be at this point, so I don't think it's a Photoshop (if it is, it's a very good one - I work for a commercial printing company and see lots of Photoshopped images on a daily basis). On another discussion board there are GTO owners in the armed services who regularly make 165+ mph runs on the Autobahn.

    Second, you say the GTO is not a muscle car and make the comment "back seat. What back seat?" You must have the Mustang and GTO confused. It is the GTO which seats 4 adults, not the Mustang. I have had 3 good-sized passengers in my GTO - getting in and out is a bit of a PITA, but once in it's very comfortable That's one reason why I could NOT ever buy a Mustang - and it's another reason why the GTO plays to a little different market than the Ford. I will also take issue with the trunk size - sure it's small - but I buy groceries and don't have any issue fitting them in the trunk. I can also go away for a weekend and fit anything and everything I and my wife need in the GTO. If we're going away for longer we'll take her Envoy :-)

    Everybody here needs to take a step back and realize that there is NO empirical "BETTER THAN" vehicle. It's up to each individual to make their own decision what is important to them. If you want the best stock performance, and not just in a straight line, the GTO is probably your car. If you want lowest price, it's the Mustang. If you need 4 passengers, it's the GTO. If you need a huge trunk, it's the Mustang. You have to evaluate what criteria are important to you.

    --Robert
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Jae5 wrote........Yes the last Impala SS was a 3-year car too, but only due to typical GM, pulling the plug on b-body to build more trucks. Plus, those cars were reasonably price, the market was known, and every last one sold. There were no crazy markups, the car had the “look”, nice stance and drive-train to boot and they improved upon it each year by listening to the customer wants. And as you will note, many are still getting at or near original selling price. Can’t say the same of this car. ........

    There are NO 1994 to 1996 Impala SS that are getting at or near their original $25k selling price!! There is a 1996 for sale by me with about 40k orig miles mint condition and they are asking $13k for it. 50% of it's orig price! LOL! All cars depreciate unless they are classics
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    Actually if you want a BIG trunk you wouldn't buy either the Mustang or GTO, LOL! I fit my 2 yr olds stroller, diaper bag and our groceries, luggate etc in there. you learn to pack the essentials, LOL! Yeah the GTO trunk is small because they had to relocate the gas tank for US safety there, but it still gets the job done for us. If I need a bigger trunk I use our Infiniti luxury sedan which haa a nearly 16 cu ft trunk!
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    jae5 wrote........Did it need a “true” rear dual-exhaust, not a dual system that fed into a dual-tipped, single muffler? Yeah. Did it and GM miss the mark? Yeah. And this is not just coming from me, but from original GTO owners, buying public, those thinking of buying, mags, forums, etc. ........

    The 2005 GTO has a true REAL dual exhaust system from the engine back. Not sure what you are talking about a dual tipped single muffler? Whatever.... In my opinion it has a better sound then the 2005 Mustang GT. Car and Driver said it sounded angrier then Msutang, LOL! The sound from my 2005 GTO sounds similar to the GTO's of the 1960's that I remember. Pretty impressive for a stock factory exhaust sound! Sounds better then the vettes
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Jae, you expressed concern about the GTO having the gas tank in a steel cage behind the back seat.

    First and foremost, the Monaro, up until 2005, had the gas tank behind the rear axle (between it and the bumper). There aren't a lot of fiery rear-end collisions in Oz, but GM felt compelled to move the tank inside the trunk (boot) to satisfy safety concerns. After all, Ford has had issues for years with rear-end collisions (think Pintos and Crown Victorias, especially cop cars).

    If you'd ever pulled back the lining around the GTO's fuel tank, you will see that the steel structure is VERY thick and VERY strong - just like a lot of race cars.

    On most cars, the fuel tank is under the rear seat, not in a steel cage. On the GTO it's behind the rear seat, inside the steel cage. I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd have NO issues with putting them back there - probably safer than in your average sedan, again, with the tank under the rear seat.

    --Robert
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    jae5 wrote......7. Pricing/Market: Again, a strange and contradicting topic. Many of you state that the price of the GTO is comparable to the Mustangs, how so? The GTO stickers for thousands more than the Mustang. The GTO is in the $31K - $33K range w/o the markup. Mustang GT’s like $26 - $28K. Second, many of you bought less than that, which is good, but you bought due to heavy incentives, which you bragged about getting, even telling each other about the offers and how to work it. My question and tell the truth please, without these incentives, how many of you would have bought the car?......

    Jae5, I would NEVER pay MSRP for a GTO and I would NEVER pay MSRP for a Mustang either neither car is worth that....... I don't pay MSRP for any car and I never buy the first year of any car, esp American ones , wait for the bugs to be worked out and for the demand to dro therefore price will drop. I prefer leftovers myself. Same thing happened with the retro Tbird, dealers trying to charge $10k over MSRP, and some idiots were paying it too, LOL! They had to be FIRST.

    Remember the VW NEW Beetle when it came out in 1997 or 1998? People were paying MSRP or higher to get it and be first. Remember people were selling them used 2 months later and getting nearly what they paid back for. Guess what? Today you can buy one for under MSRP for a good price. Or a used 1 yr old one for 25% off. Don't always be first, because you are going to pay top dollar. As I say now for the MILLIONTH time, these cars just depreciate one way or the other, lets see next yr what the 2005 mustang is worth. It will drop in price! I would wait until 2006 or later unless you have a good Ford employee discount or something !
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ...

    The 2005 GTO has a true REAL dual exhaust system from the engine back. Not sure what you are talking about a dual tipped single muffler? Whatever.... In my opinion it has a better sound then the 2005 Mustang GT. Car and Driver said it sounded angrier then Msutang, LOL! The sound from my 2005 GTO sounds similar to the GTO's of the 1960's that I remember. Pretty impressive for a stock factory exhaust sound! Sounds better then the vettes


    He's talking about the '04 GTO. And I would hope that a 5.7L V8 would sound "angrier" than a 4.6L V8.
  • andyandy Posts: 23
    Ok since your argument is that in actual street driving the GTO performance is about the same as the Ford. Since you are making a more practical real world argument, here is my practical real world answer for the following points.

    1) suspension: GTO is smoother and its IRS is more comfortable than the GT
    2) Roomy: as already stated the back seat is much larger.
    3) Interior: you even state yourself that the GTO is of high quality but other GMNA interiors stink. Maybe so, but that is totally irrelevant. I don't think there is anyone that would claim the GT has equal quality of plastics and leathers than the GTO.
    4) Price: why talk sticker prices. can we talk actual typical transaction prices. 05 GTOs go for a bit under 30k and 04's for under 25k, GTs are going for sticker which is about 28k. Not much difference. In 2 years when GTs are 5k off, than you might have an argument that the GT is a better value.
    5) Gotta have it factor is that initial Buzz a "hot" car has for the first year or so. PT cruiser, Beetles, Tbirds, Minis all had that. These cars get talked about more than average in the media. The GTO was never "hot" car.
    6) Exclusivity. You state that the GTOs selling in small numbers and its eventual cancellation in 06 is a bad thing. Why would you rather drive a car that is on every block vs something you see very infrequently.
  • tm2flitm2fli Posts: 2
    Man it's something to see mustang owners hitting every GTO site trying to tell us the mustang is better than the GTO.

    For those wannabe critics on here..how many of you have actually driven a 05 GTO????

    Yeah that's what I thought...bunch of magazine reading, know it all analysts posting from magazine information.

    If you ask a 05 GTO owner how much they like their car, you get an overwhelming response that they love it and is the best car the have ever bought. Me included.
    So typing about how a rebadged holden shouldn't have been a GTO, how it really isn't that fast, not marketed in the right "niche" doesn't mean anything to me..we bought the car, it's a great car and absolutely do not regret it, so quit telling me I made a mistake of getting a GTO instead of a 05 GT.
  • buddhabmanbuddhabman Posts: 252
    The 24 Hours of Bathurst is a great race on a great road course. If they play this event on SpeedTV again make sure to watch it. I watched the 24 Hours of Bathurst race last year and the Holden Monaro/GTO was pretty dominating. It ran circles around M3's and beat the Ford Commodores pretty handily. After watching that race and tuning into some of the V8 Supercar races in Australia, there is little doubt in my mind that when GM gets the GTO race program up and running, the GTO will dominate. I like the new Mustang GT, it is a looker and a great value, and the Shelby GT 500 is awesome. I think I prefer the GTO for the interior quality, the stealthy exterior, and handiling. Yes there are a bunch of mod parts/tuner kits coming out to make Mustangs ridiculously quick, but i think there will be similar opportunities for the GTO, like SLP or Mallet. I also think the parts available to refine the GTO handling will make it very hard to beat on windy roads.

    GOAT POWER :D
  • gunitgunit Posts: 469
    FYI.....tayl0rd.....The 2004 GTO has a real dual exhaust system too! The 2 real pipes were run out to one side together, but are TRUE dual exhaust! I don't GM had enough time for 2004 to run them out to the sides like on the 2005, but I have seen some 2004 owners have them switched over.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    No, I'm correct in my statement. Read it again, it clearly states "...To me, the Ford has more rear seat room...." Again, key phrase being "to me".

    Then you state the GTO is much more comfortable than the 02 GTP. That's your opinion, personally I didn't find the backseat of the GTO comfortable one bit. And again, don't mean to rant, but having the tank behind the seat bothers me.

    Again, we agree to disagree. ;)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    I don't either (pay MSRP for ANY car). I don't finance cars, I pay cash for them. And I also don't deal with the MSRP prices for the options either. And yes, you've said that many times, not a million, but many :P

    Nor do I buy ANY car the first year it comes out, as you stated there are bugs. Know this is off-topic, but the same thing happened with the PT Cruisers as well. People were paying 300M money for one, which I thought was crazy!!

    But the question still stands to be asked, without all the incentives how many would have bought this car?
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Ok, so now the GTO should hit 180, albeit with the governor removed. Last time it did hit 180, no mention of governor. What happened? :confuse:

  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Hey hammen,

    Yes, the Monaro had the tank behind the rear axle. For the GTO it was moved to behind the back seat to meet safety regulations for rear-end crashes. Yes have seen the structure, didn't notice if there was foam around it, separating the tank from the case. Also don't know if the tank has foam on the inside as well, as with a fuel cell. Would actually prefer a racing fuel cell versus a tank if I'm putting it in the passenger/trunk compartment. Does it have a fuel shut-off in case of a crash (like the button on Fords)?

    Yes, the tank on many vehicles are under the seat; but it's just my feeling better that the tank is "physically" outside the inner/passenger compartment. I'm just glad it's not like on the old p/u trucks, where the tank was in-cab, directly behind the seat!
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    G,

    Um, if you read the whole thing, I also mentioned "...when it was intro'd...did it need hood scoop...did it need a real dual exhaust...". That should have clued you in that I was talking about the '04. Again, stop being selective.

    Keep up, will you :P

    (Just kidding - oh, and when are you going to get your GTO to 180 while carrying your luggage, baby stroller, golf bag, groceries, along three adults and baby seat ;) )
  • Pontiac GTO: Heavy incentives by the end of its' first year on the market! GM begs its loyalists with unheard of additional incentives for GM credit card holders. Even this won't help them meet their sales goals, and many 2004 models sit unloved on dealers' lots well into 2005.

    Ford Mustang: No sign of discounts, not to mention incentives! Quite the contrary, most dealers will not even honor the employee or supplier purchase plans. But this is the killer: orders are backlogged so far that, if you'd like to order a 2005 Mustang of any kind, too bad. You'll have to wait until 2006!

    (By the way, even the old body style 2004 Mustangs were all gone before the Brand New 2004 GTOs!)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Um, the pipes run into a resonator that has a single tip.

    Everyone, my mistake from the original post.

    True, the car does have a dual exhaust but the pipes run into a resonator that has a single tip. But that's not a true dual exhaust because the pipes come back together - it doesn't stay dual from the cat-back. It's separate until the end, not a true dual exhaust to me and to many others for that matter.

    Back to the debate!
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