Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

1464749515263

Comments

  • In that same July 2005 article C&D also estimated about 3850 pounds curbweight for GT500, pretty heavy. The ironic thing is that some people here comlain the GTO is too heavy at 3725. 6spd manual looks nice in GT500.

    Most of the original GT500 were Auto tranny, not stick. Go figure? Can't wait to see a road test.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&article_id=9638&page_number=4
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "The ironic thing is that some people here comlain the GTO is too heavy at 3725."

    It's only ironic if those complaining about the GTO weight say the weight of the GT500 is okay.

    It's not.

    A curbweight uncomfortably close to 2 tons is NOT okay regardless of the emblem on the trunklid or the hp at the wheels. 2 tons is 2 tons is 2 tons. I care about power/weight ratios as much as the next guy. But I prefer to increase my ratio by decreasing the weight, not simply upping the power. Because you fight mass ALL the time, not just while accelerating.

    "Most of the original GT500 were Auto tranny, not stick. Go figure?"

    That's because most of the GT500 buyers (first available in '67) were (IMO) poseurs more interested in straight-line grunt, cruising, and looking good in their Shelby. Whereas most of the GT350s were sold with 4-speed toploaders (except for the Hertz GT350 cars in '66 which were predominately automatics). And in the GT350's first year ('65), they were available ONLY with a 4-speed.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    Heated mirrors have been around for a solid decade in many cars. Seems to me the G35 (or others?) has these options for GTO's MSRP, but I haven't actually sat down and figured that out. But there are definitely a lot of cars in this bread and butter price range that have a LOT of features, these days. If it was a 99 GTO, it would have been significantly more popular, imo. Not these days, in a world where $25k Hyundai Sonatas come loaded up with features that used to be optional on Cadillacs and Mercedes of 10 years ago.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    it's the wheels/tires on the GT. they are apparently wimpy! small wheels / thin tires.

    I noticed that this weekend, too. And came to the same conclusion as you, on why the GT appears un-GT-like. Edmunds says the GT comes with 235/55ZR17 tires, which I agree is a wimpy size. I think the GTO comes with 245s. It seems to handle fine on them, though.
  • The new Shelby is just plain sick. Yes, it's heavy and doesn't come with lots of amenities, but it will sell like wildfire. It's built perfectly for its market....lots of hp/torque, good handling, a rumbling exhaust, and copius amounts of muscular mojo. Just think what the aftermarket will be able to do with its 5.4L V8. It also has 18" wheels with 255 front/285 rear tires. And it looks so much better....
  • Monaro/GTO does NOT have heated mirrors or heated seats because in Austrailia they aren't needed. Not sure why GM didn't add them here, but doesn't bother me at all. I never needed them. I'm glad I didn't have to pay extra for them.

    The G35 only has a 298hp V6 and useless backseat , interior is so-so. Bose stereo is part of a $2500 ooption pkge! I cross-shopped it and found the GTO better for me.

    Do any of these cars in the GTO's price range have a 400hp V8 engine and sub 5 second 0-60 times? Sonata, no matter how many gadgets they throw in, isn't a GTO, not close, not to mention POOR hyundai resale.

    Remember that the BEST F body cars in 2002 were about the same price as the GTO now. F body's don't even come close to GTO's refinement/interior/build quality.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    the goats come with 245/45-17s - no snow chains possible! stay away from donner pass this winter, california goat boys & girls!
    i bet the GT stangs look way nice with beefier treads. 255 fronts & 285 back, yow.
    i miss freddie mercury. he helped the world go 'round too.
  • The Goats have OPTONAL 18 inch tire-rim size. P235/40-18. I believe it's a cheap option, $500?
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    Remember that the BEST F body cars in 2002 were about the same price as the GTO now. F body's don't even come close to GTO's refinement/interior/build quality

    You know what's funny about that? GM sold 72,467 2002 F-Bodies. Before you say "most were V6," a full 62.8% of them were the V8. What does this say about the GTO? Remember, I'm a GM guy and have defended the GTO before but....

    Sonata, no matter how many gadgets they throw in, isn't a GTO, not close, not to mention POOR hyundai resale

    I think a lot of the things I am talking about would have made the GTO sell more. But, here's the thing - I think GTO owners don't give a squat if more people didn't buy their car! That's the difference between a GTO owner and like....almost any other given car model enthusiast. It's a compliment, guys.
  • I don't disagree with that, but by the same logic I wouldn't say Mustang owners are any different. I don't know anyone who bought the new style just to follow the pack.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ...even the less-sporty V6 versions are loud inside and out. ...

    :confuse:
    Did that person even drive the Mustang?? This is the quietest Mustang ever. Road noise is minimal and wind noise is virtually non-existent. (I've never driven the V6, though, so maybe it's different from the GT.)

    On another note, does anyone remember the movie The Fifth Element? Do you remember those robot-alien things in the beginning of the movie that landed over the pyramid in the desert? Those things are what the rear seats of the GTO remind me of. I've been trying to put my finger on it for the longest time! It finally hit me a couple of days ago.
  • How many of those 45k V8 powered Fbody were the top of the line expensive Firehawk near $39k, SS $29k+, 35th anniv edtion SS $33k etc? Probably not many more if not less then the 12k to 18k per year $33k GTO's being sold.

    I think it's more then just GTO owners not caring...any car prior to my GTO that I have ever bought or owned, I don't care how well it sells or how many people have it etc. If I like it that is all that matters. I don't care what anyone else thinks or follow the herd like some people..
  • It is the quietest mustang ever, I agree, but maybe the writer was comparing it to the noise level of other V6 powered cars? I rented the V6 Mustang, there is a dif, faster then I thought, auto tranny. Pretty quick, but the engine/exhaust note was coarse/unrefined once you hit 4000rpm. For that alone I would only buy V8 GT.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    How many of those 45k V8 powered Fbody were the top of the line expensive Firehawk near $39k, SS $29k+, 35th anniv edtion SS $33k etc? Probably not many more if not less then the 12k to 18k per year $33k GTO's being sold.

    First, a Firebird Firehawk is not the F-Body equivalent to the GTO. That was a specially modified version by SLP. The GTO is regular production line stuff. Second, according to my source, 11,200 2002 F-Bodies were Camaro SS, and nearly 15k of the 2002 Firebirds had the WS-6 ram air package. This kind of goes back to my earlier Fox mustang argument, except in reverse. The F-Body, despite "not selling well" seemed to sell well. So what changed 2 years later for the MY2004 GTO? I think we've been over the points before. We can say it doesn't matter, but I don't think that means the question can't be addressed.

    We know the F-Body had poor interior materials and fit and finish (though it had been largely improved by 2002). But the cost of the models I cite was less. So in 2002 could it have been that interior quality was less of an issue and cost was more important? Probably. Could that have changed in less than 2 years? It may not have.
  • What changed 2yrs later for the MY2004 GTO? It was NOT meant to ever be a F-body replacement and it was from the beginning a limited-low production import of 18k or less cars per year here over a 3yr period, 2004-2006. Unlike Fbody, GM is making $$ on GTO-Monaro-Vauxhaull platform. Sold 4x their orig prod estimate over their run. Still waiting list in England. Plant in Austriailia is maxed out, just like Mustang plant here is. In fact an extra 1500 or 2000 Monaro special edition was made because of people still wanting them. They were sold out before production began!! The car doesn't sell poorly as some here have pointed out.

    As for the F body demise...
    The platform they (Fbody) were on (nearly 20 yrs old) was at the end of it's life-cycle and it would NOT meet more stringent 2003 Front end crash stds. The sales on the vehicle could not support the plant that the vehicle was in. Capacity to build 200k+ cars but only did 73k final year? One of GM’s worst performing plants. Also, it is a matter of economics from the assembly and design side. Significant costs come from the location of the plant (St. Therese, PQ, Canada) in terms of labor, taxation and physical distance from other GM supplier facilities. Price on the F body constantly rose, the top of the line models were approaching Corvette pricing !! Mustang V8 was cheaper, more bang for the buck.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    As for the F body demise...
    The platform they (Fbody) were on (nearly 20 yrs old) was at the end of it's life-cycle and it would NOT meet more stringent 2003 Front end crash stds. ...


    I don't think that's correct. The F-body guys constantly ragged on the Mustang guys for having an ancient platform. Now you're saying the F-body platform was nearly as old and wouldn't meet new crash standards? How is that possible if the F-body platform was proclaimed to be superior to the Mustang's yet the Mustang's inferior platformed endured on through the 2004 model year (meeting 2003 crash standards)? Guess the old Fox platform wasn't so inferior after all. ;)
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    It was NOT meant to ever be a F-body replacement

    I know but I think that was what the market wanted!
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    The F-body guys constantly ragged on the Mustang guys for having an ancient platform

    I am not real familiar with this but if I had to guess, the only leg the F-body guys would have to stand on would be that the platform was moderately revised for the 4th gen (MY1993). New front suspension and the platform was generally stiffer. I dunno if the Mustang had experienced a revision along those lines during Fox production.
  • "The GTO offers 18" wheels optional, don't think Mustang does! GTO comes with 17" std."
    You can order 18s (fan blades or "Bullit") on the GTs. Availability is spotty right now, especially on the Bullit, as they're late availability anyway, The tires will be P235-45/18s as opposed to P235-55/17s.
  • "Hearing Freddy Mercury sing that seems a bit hollow, though given his orientation."

    He was an equal opportunity kinda guy, actually.
  • "Did that person even drive the Mustang?? This is the quietest Mustang ever. Road noise is minimal and wind noise is virtually non-existent. (I've never driven the V6, though, so maybe it's different from the GT.) "

    I own a GT.

    It's a little louder inside than the GTO as far as exhaust, but I think the GTO has more tire noise and wind noise. YMMV.

    They're both a little louder than most cars, for that matter. Not obnoxious, but hard to carry on a conversation over the road, exhaust, and stereo if you're going at speed. Nothing too bad if you're used to performance cars, but if you're used to something like a Camry or Accord, then I can see where someone would be annoyed.

    Coming from an F-150, the wind noise on either of them is non-existant.
  • I never said F body platform was as old as Fox Mustang platform, it wasn't. Fox was 3 yrs older. However I read somewhere that it (Fbody) would not meet newer front crash stds for 2003 or 2004. Something in the front end. I never said the F body was superior to Mustang Fox either. Thats open for debate. Didn't F body handle better? Just guessing I don't know.

    I read that the Fox body had to be replaced/redone because of where it's gas tank is located for rear crash protection stds It wouldn't have passed for 2005 or 2006. That is why they re-located Monaro Gas tank to pass rear crash stds. However the Monaro will get a NEW Chassis for 2007-2008
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    So, what happens when a 19-year old kid is test driving a Holden Monaro HSV Clubsport and goes a leeeeetle too fast coming back to the dealership....

    http://www.wreckedexotics.com/newphotos/weird/weird569.shtml
  • It's not a Monaro. It's a 4 door version. See this link....

    http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1796/printArticle.html

    Entertaining none the less.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,127
    There was a guy coming from an Accord who posted in the Mustang thread and was complaining about the GT's noise. I mentioned that if he's wanting the GT, and he's expecting something silent, he's missing the purpose of the car.

    I did hear the Freddy had a certain duality about him.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,903
    there are reports on the net today about ford being ready to produce a hybrid mustang V8 that gets 37 mpg city. i'm a GM/goat guy all the way but i think that is awesome news if true, and another example of Ford beating GM. i don't quite believe the 37 mpg number, of course. but hey, a hybrid mustang will be able to drive in the cali carpool lanes! woo hoo. of course, if the cali govt stooges really wanted to decrease pollution and decrease fuel consumed, hybrids would be *prohibited* from the carpool lanes - they get better mpg in stop-and-go traffic!

    maybe the whole mustang hybrid thing is a prank. i cannot find a source for it. the web site listed on the report i got doesn't even exist. but hey, i hope it's true. as a GM guy i say "GO BLUE OVAL" if this is true! oh yeah!
  • From what I have read the GTO LS2 was designed to be retrofitted with displacement on demand (DOD). New oil pressure manifold and new wiring. 8% increase in fuel economy (ONLY 2 or 3 MPG) taking into account that your driving style is within the paramaters for the system to operate. Not worth the money in the long run to add it to a vehicle. That is all I can remember.
  • After driving both cars, many V6 Rental Mustangs on business trips and test drives of the GT, is that the GTO is the more quieter, comfortable, luxurious muscle car, IMO. Reminds me of Mercedes/BMW. GTO is the poor mans BMW. I can have a totally ok conversation in it. The only sound in the GTO that might get annoying for some, Cam-Accord driversI is the twin pipes of the LS2. I love that sound.

    What I noticed is that inside the car the GT's exhaust is louder/better, but OUTSIDE the car the GTO has a louder-meaner-deeper note to it's exhaust then GT. Hear it further away, IMO GT sounds nice also!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I can certainly attest to the exhaust note on the GTO. Had a nice red '05 pull up next to me at a light yesterday; I'll admit I had to drop my window so I could get a nice earful. Sweet.

    Now why can't my Celica sound like that? :blush:
  • "Now why can't my Celica sound like that?"

    It's missing half its engine. ;)
This discussion has been closed.