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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • sensaisensai Posts: 129
    Great memory, but you are forgetting the post where I stated I had posted a link to this thread not knowing that URL contains my encrypted login, and therefore those post were not mine.

    So your point is a well setup car can perform as well or better than a more powerful one that is not? Yes, that is correct. Problem is, the Mustang does not outperform the GTO. This has been proven over and over, but for some reason you guys cannot admit that. Yes the GTO costs more, because once again, it is the better performing and better built car. And yes you can not like the looks of the GTO, just like I think the new Mustang looks like a bad ripoff of my 68 Mustang, but that doesn't change the facts of which one has better performance and quality.

    Anyways, yes I do plan on tracking the car this year when it gets warmer. I'll be checking forums occasionally to see when get togethers and events are taking place. I am sure we will be seeing a few friendly Mustang vs GTO events this year all over the country.
  • Plenty of leftover 2005 Mustangs in my neck of the wood. One dealer over the NY state border here has about 15 lined up in front. They have been sitting there like that for nearly 2 months now. :P

    There is a 2005 Mustang V6 convertible that was painted in the NY Yankee pin striped uniform style that has been sitting since July. Still there as of this morning.
  • I wouldn't take a V6 if someone gave it to me, let alone a NY Yankee pin striped one! No wonder its still sitting there. :surprise:
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    I said Mustang GT. There's probably goo-gobs of V6s leftover.
  • "Just looking at the Car & Driver stats, never having driven a GTO, it strikes me that for a more expensive car with 100 more horses, that's a full 33% more power than the Mustang, the GTO should be a lot faster, should outperform the Mustang by a wider margin"

    Same thing with the new GT500. It has 475hp, which is nearly 20% more hp then GTO's 400 and it's only 2/10ths faster to 60mph. Very close drivers race.

    GT500 did 0-60mph in 4.5 seconds. GTO just did 0-60mph in 4.7 seconds in the December Motor Trend issue. GTO is nearly $10k cheaper then GT500 :P
  • That V6 Yankee car is at a dealer in hackensack, NJ. I have seen it brought to a few car shows with the dealer window stickers on it last summer. Imagine parking that car somewhere in Boston?
  • Read more carefully, carlots. I said GT's are not being rebated. For every 4-6 V6's, dealers get around 1 GT, so yes, V6's may be sitting on the lots, as well they might, being nice cars, but not sought-after rockets like the GT's.

    Also check out the other thread here about Mustang buying experiences: some people are tickled pink to be able to get their hands on a GT at a mere $400 over MSRP. A lot of posters are having to order the GT and wait long periods of time.

    Me? I'm still keeping an eye out to get a first-hand glimpse of this supposedly superbad car, the GTO. Doesn't seem to be all that popular, even with rebates. ;)
  • Don't forget, people were paying MSRP and over to get the first 2004 GTO's too, which was crazy. Some were marked up $5k+ over MSRP. People were also "tickled pink" buying Honda Odyssey's in 2003, paying MSRP+ and waiting as long as 6 months for it. Personally I have never and will never pay MSRP for a car or wait for it, IMHO. Also ford didn't know that the V8 model would be that popular in 2005. historically it's been 63% V6 and 37% V8

    They only made 11,069 GTO in 2005 vs nearly 200,000 Mustang in 2005. You chances of seeing a GTO will be quite slim. 18 Mustangs on the road for every 1 GTO. I don't see many GTO either. Most of the Mustangs are V6 that I see.
  • sigt1sigt1 Posts: 66
    just a hunch but im pretty sure the GT500 is going to run 4s - low 4s for the 60s

    just a hunch
  • I think someone else posted this link further back

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=3086

    Pricing will start at $40k for the coupe and $44k for the convertible, you know the dealers are really going to mark this one up over MSRP. They are planning on selling 10,000 of them.
  • carlots, the Mustang GT has been out for over a year and demand still exceeds supply. Ford simply can't build them fast enough.

    Won't pay MSRP or wait for delivery of a car? I guess you won't be driving a Mustang GT (or Corvette, for that matter). :shades:
  • It depends on your area of the country. As said, there are plenty of V6 mustangs sitting on lots by me, some of them for a long time, so sure looks to me like Ford Miscalculated the demand of the V8 model.

    Sorry but you can buy a Vette for under MSRP and the 3 dealers by me have 2 to 3 on their lots. Not a problem. 1 of the dealers, which is the 2nd largest in NJ has at least 10 in stock. That dealer that I mentioned who has 15+ mustangs over the NY border.. 3 or 4 of them are the V8 models. Since this is the middle of winter in the Northeast with 6 to 12 inches of snow forecast for Sat. night, i'm sure they won't be moving anytime soon :P
  • sigt1sigt1 Posts: 66
    there are plenty of 06 GTs on the lot here; most are auto; deluxes are rare, as are sticks, but as for GTS there are plenty

    look around even in your area Im sure you'll find at least a few
  • Yes, there are plenty of GTO's on the lot too. My dealer has about 5. Those will be sitting too with this weather coming up.
  • Here in Calif:

    Vettes: take one month to order. Only the rare dealer willing to sell at MSRP. Don't see them on dealer lots (tho I don't go looking specifically for them). Source: associate of mine who just bought a new C06.

    Mustang GT Premiums w/ manual tranny: generally have to be special ordered to get MSRP, taking 8-12 weeks (2 to 3 times longer than the Vette). Those few on lots are almost invariably marked up and gone within a week. Dealers are tricking up some, with add-on custom wheels, for instance, in order to charge even more. My local dealer hasn't had a GT on the lot for at least 6-8 weeks -- I know because he always parks it out front with balloons attached to the antenna when he has one, and I happen to drive by around every 7-10 days. (Have noticed the Rousch's stick around longer.)

    See lots of new Vettes on the road. See very few GT's, some V6's. Have yet to notice a GTO, maybe because they look like insects. :shades:
  • The Z06 vette usually has to be ordered and is MSRP or higher. Regular Vettes is what I meant by being plenty available here and under MSRP.

    The GTO is a far more rare car then the Vette, 11,000 sold vs 40,000 Vettes sold. In my area the Vette is fairly common. I see some GTO's. As for looking like an insect? Thats a new one. More original then the usual grand-am or bloated Cavalier comments the bashers come up with .

    I like telling people, (not car people) my Cavalier has a 400hp V8 Corvette engine in it. The look on their face is priceless. :P
  • jtacojtaco Posts: 7
    On the main www.pontiac.com/gto
    website, if you click on 'Click to
    see how we beat the competition',
    they say that the GTO did 0 to 60 (2005) in 6.0
    seconds -- that doesn't seem so fast.

    But in their pdf file at
    www.pontiac.com/pdf/06Pontiac_GTO.pdf, they clearly state that the Pontiac GTO does 0 to 60 in a mere
    4.6 seconds (the automatic). That
    is a HUGE difference in performance.

    So which number is closer to being
    correct? How did they get the 4.6
    number? on a track? Which number should we believe?

    I'm trying to decide on a GTO or GT, and want to get to the bottom of this.

    Thanks for your replies.

    John
  • Motor Trend duplicated that same GM 4.7 second time in their December issue when they compared it to the Charger SRT8. BTW, the GTO was faster then the SRT8. So I would say GM's number is correct. For some reasons all the cars in that how we beat the competition drive were slow. Mustang GT was over 6 seconds.

    As far as I know, no magazine has ever test driven an Automatic GTO, only 6spd manuals.

    The fastest times I have seen at the track for a Stock GTO are with the automatic trans in it.
  • Carlots, you gotta be nuts to think the Pontiac is even in the same ballpark as the limited-production '07 Shelby Mustang GT 500. Please, tell me, I'm all ears, how guys are lining up to buy the GTO, sight unseen, plunking down $1000 non-refundable deposits, like they're doing for the GT 500. Please, tell me, I'm all ears, how a GTO recently got, or could ever get, $700,000 at a Barret-Jackson auction, like the GT 500 just did (charity auction).

    Performance comparisons between the 2 vehicles is totally hypothetical, in as much as the GT500 hasn't even been produced yet. It's MSRP has yet to be determined and there isn't even a stat sheet for the car. Even the HP is up in the air, quoted as somewhere between 450 and 500. All we have to go on is the prototype.

    Frankly, carlots, the more you go on about how vastly superior your car is, the less credibility you have. For instance, how do you know what the availibility of the Mustang GT is? Do you go shopping for them in your free time, even tho you're not going to buy one? In contrast, I base my statements on my own recent buying experience and the fact that I was at a Ford dealer ~2 weeks ago to discuss ordering a GT 500.
  • The limited production GT500 is slated to sell about 10,000 units, close to what the GTO sold in 2005. Not so limited is it? I never said guys are lining up buying GTO's unseen, thats your post. If you watched Barret-Jackson you will know that a GM (Chevy) muscle car got the highest sale price of nearly $1.2 million ! Not a Ford.

    MSRP has been established for the GT500, you need to check the latest ford news. $40k Coupe, $44k Convertible. That is before the highly anticipated dealer markups and bidding wars. This was also published in Motor Trend who just test drove the Convertible. As for performance, so far the GT500 is at 4.5 seconds, not too impressive for a 475hp+ car , when the GTO does 4.7 seconds with 400hp.

    I NEVER said how vastly superior my car is or do I keep going on about it. Questioning my credibilty? Let's stick to the topic, not each other's creditbility.

    I base my statements on the availabilty of the mustang on the 4 dif. Ford dealers by my house and their inventory I see out in front on my commute everyday. There are plenty of both V6 and V8 Mustangs sitting there now for quite some time in my area of the country. Your area may be different. I think the gotta have factor is starting wear off in my area! They are both good cars. I prefer the GTO, you prefer the Mustang, thats what this debate is about.
  • BTW, what price did the dealer give you on that GT500 you were there to discuss ordering?

    He couldn't give me a price, and neither could the other dealer I talked to about 1-2 months earlier, which makes the figures you quote totally bogus as far as I'm concerned. If the dealers don't know, how in the world do you know? Also, they both said production would be about 7,000, not 10,000. Again, I doubt your cred. Both dealers shied away from making any predictions or promises of any kind. Anything you're reading in the press is pure conjecture and/or BS.

    You miss the point that a car which hasn't even been built yet got $700,000 at auction, a car you compared to the GTO. Repeat, there's no comparison.

    As far as I'm concerned, I decided to wait this one out. There's too much hype, too much hysteria. You're exactly right about the markup. It's going to ridiculous. One dealer wanted 5%, in writing. The other wouldn't even say. I'll be more than happy just keeping my new GT and seeing how the chips fall for the GT 500. For all we know, it could be a disaster. It doesn't even have the same engine as the GT, which is a winner, an aluminum small-block. Instead, they're putting in a cast-iron engine.
  • " Also, they both said production would be about 7,000, not 10,000. Again, I doubt your cred."

    My number of 10,000 GT500 seems to be right on the money. Never trust the dealers, they are among the last to find out info. The guys I dealt with for my GTO were also the last to find out any info. I was far more knowledgeable then them on their own products.

    Anyone that pays $700k for a Mustang or even that $1.2 million for that nice old Chevy muscle car is out of their mind, IMHO.

    You are better off with the GT, that is what I would get. If they made a more expensive higher horsepower version of the GTO I wouldn't buy it either. Not worth it to me.

    We have to replace our family sedan and I would love to get a Mustang GT to go along with the GTO, but my wife won't let that happen, I can dream though. We only have 1 kid.
  • Here no evil, see no evil.

    As I said, it was a charity auction. Still, the amount reflects the desirability of the car, sight unseen, which is extremely high. In this case, perception is everything, a very concrete $700,000 everything.

    Believe what you want ... journalists, dealers ... not exactly the most honest sources. I'm going to wait and see how the situation plays out "on the ground," as they say.
  • True. The auto mags-journalists have gotten it wrong many times too. They now say the GTO for 2008 is dead at Motor Trend. Time will tell. oh well.
  • The auto-mags initially said the price would be below $40k, which piqued my interest. Now its creeping up, mid 40's, which imo is inflated.
  • Noticed the same disparities for the Mustang. I don't recall the numbers, but Consumer Reports got a substantially slower 0-60 than the car mags or Ford.

    Also it pays to look at HP skeptically. It's rated 300 for the Mustang at very high RPMs (torque too is rated at high RPM). When you look at the graph, at driving range, the HP is much lower. Another thing is the actual power delivered to the rear wheels, which is also significantly lower. That "300" figure is basically for comparison purposes, as I see it. :shades:
  • just wondering what types of prices people are paying for 2005 gtos and 2005 mustang gts with under 10,000 miles...
  • sigt1sigt1 Posts: 66
    i would venture to say that BOTH these cars are not selling to well realistically and that you can get good prices on BOTH;
  • jtacojtaco Posts: 7
    Pontiac Customer Service got back to me...Here's what they had to say about 4.6 vs 6.0 times for the GTO:

    "The 4.6 seconds
    is the 0-60 time number on the automatic transmission tested by GM at
    GM's Milford proving grounds on a closed course track. The 6.0 seconds
    information found on the website is an altitude adjusted time produced
    by a third party.
    "

    John
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    hmmm, my '99 Chrysler 300M had a V6 engine making 255HP and 255 lbs*ft torque.

    My 2002 Acura TL-S made 260HP.


    Actually, the '99 300M was rated at 253HP. ;) My sister had one. I have an '02 300M Special rated at 255HP/258TRQ (in addition to my '05 Mustang GT.)
This discussion has been closed.