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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "I'm sure we will hear yet again how the Mustang is better because it sells better/more again which is starting to get old fast. It's an uneducated public out there, thats why."

    In your opinion, what makes one car 'better' than the other in any particular segment?

    My opinion - it depends on the segment. For mainstream family sedans, the 'better' car may be the one with the most room, with the most features/reliabilty/economy for the least price. For trucks it might be the most towing/hauling capacity.

    And for sports coupes, it is some combination of performance and style.

    However, for EACH segment, the manufacturers certainly understand what defines 'winners' and 'losers'. And the common yardstick regardless of the segment is sales. How else do you explain the demise of the F-body despite the fact the Mustang was soundly beaten from a pure performance standpoint for better than a decade? The F-body may have been 'better', but it's still dead.

    You guys seem to be of the opinion that many (most?) Mustang buyers are simply buying the car BECAUSE it is popular. However, I'm simply stating that it's popularity is simply an indicator (IMO) that Ford struck a 'better' balance between pure performance, handling, and style ('better' in the sense that it appeals to more people).

    The point is that there really is no "better" between these two. If a buyer were interested solely in performance and doesn't really care for audacious style, looking for more of a 'sleeper' capable of waxing unsuspecting victims in stoplight wars, then the Mustang would NOT be the right choice. For such a buyer, the GTO makes lots of sense.

    However, some of the "uneducated public" understands that life is not a constant series of stoplight races. Perhaps the "uneducated public's" ego is strong enough that we don't need to constantly prove ourself with burnouts and the ability to claim the biggest motor.

    Maybe we prefer to look better 100% of the time rather than lose a stoplight race 0.1% of the time.
  • Conclusions
    Their muscle-car roots are remarkably similar, but the 2005 Ford Mustang GT and the 2005 Pontiac GTO hold great appeal for disparate reasons.If you're more into style and aesthetic appeal, the Mustang is the clear winner -- and it costs considerably less than the GTO.


    'If pure performance is the name of your game, and your ego is secure enough to drive a virtually anonymous design, the GTO simply walks away from the Mustang in nearly every measurable category -- as long as you're also willing to pay a premium for the privilege of owning one.
    Overall winner: GTO"


    "I'm sure we will hear yet again how the Mustang is better because it sells better/more again which is starting to get old fast. It's an uneducated public out there, thats why

    The preacher has stated his case mainly using sales as the measuring stick as to which car is better, thusly his conclusion is, the Mustang is the better car.
    There lies the rub, the word "better" Anologys have been made so I won't get into
    making another one. He likes his Mustang, we like our GTO's.
    Both cars have their attributes which have been pointed out in this debate.
    The fact is the GTO is back and I have one, am happy with it, and that's whats important to me, not how many Mustangs are sold.
  • "In your opinion, what makes one car 'better' than the other in any particular segment? "

    High quality Materials and workmanship. Room, visibility, comfort, powertrain, ride quality, brakes take the cake over styling to me. Unfortunately most of the uneducated public judge the car by looks rather then whats underneath/interior/driving it, etc. It depends on the buyer on which car is better. We all have reasons for chosing GTO or Mustang.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,928
    rorr....agreed. All 60,000 of us uneducated Mustang GT owners are wrong about what a muscle coupe should be.

    Apparently, GM knows they've got work to do on the GTO before it's ready to be successful in this segment. They're, at the very least, stopping production in '07 to ready a more competitive "Mustang fighter" (as Motor Trend put it) on the streets. According to the same MT article, Pontiac realizes they have to do something with the suspension, too since it looks like they are going to be redoing it. I still say, trimming 300 lbs from the GTO along with more expressive styling, could cure a lot of it's ills.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "High quality Materials and workmanship. Room, visibility, comfort, powertrain, ride quality, brakes take the cake over styling."

    You forgot the little "IMHO" at the end..... :)

    Haven't heard too many complaints about lack of room in the Mustang (although the GTO wins hands down on rear-seat room). Visibility out of the Mustang could be better (although it's not nearly as bad as the '71-'73 flatback models). Comfort? Haven't heard any complaints there either.

    Powertrain? Hmmmmm, I don't know that most rational people who were NOT into stoplight drag races would have any complaints about the Mustang's powertrain. Although I have heard some complaints about the shift linkage in the GTO. Of course, if you desire an automatic this is not an issue.

    Ride quality is exceptionally subjective. Some genuinely prefer the GTO, some the Mustang.

    Brakes? I haven't heard any complaints about the Mustang brakes though I have heard that the GTO brakes could be a bit 'mushy' feeling (although the actual brake numbers are very good.....for a car as heavy as the GTO)

    Look, I'm not trying to talk ANYONE out of a GTO. They are excellent cars. I do however take exception to insinuations that Mustang buyers are, for the most part, the 'uneducated public'. Just because some people may prefer a LOT more style (IMO) while sacrificing a LITTLE straight line performance (again, IMO), is no reason to label them 'uneducated'. They just have a different set of priorities.
  • "The preacher has stated his case mainly using sales as the measuring stick as to which car is better, thusly his conclusion is, the Mustang is the better car.
    There lies the rub, the word "better" Anologys have been made so I won't get into
    making another one. He likes his Mustang, we like our GTO's.
    Both cars have their attributes which have been pointed out in this debate.
    The fact is the GTO is back and I have one, am happy with it, and that's whats important to me, not how many Mustangs are sold."

    I agree, as long as we are all happy with our purchases, whether it be GTO or Mustang, thats cool. Now that gas is now over $3 a gallon in NJ here, this will be interesting to see how well either car sells.
  • I agree, your right. I shouldn't have labeled Mustang owners as the uneducated public. Unfortunately some people do buy a car just because it's popular/good looks. I am not trying to talk anyone out of buying a Mustang either. As you said, it's subjective and we have diff. priorties. They are both excellent choices.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I just bought you a virtual beer. :P Drink up, before it gets warm.

    For once, I agree with absolutely everything you said in that last post. Many people do buy a car just because of it's popularity/good looks. And GM did get almost everything right with the GTO. I just wish it looked a bit more distinctive (and shed a couple hundred pounds).

    If I were to ever buy a GM car, the GTO would be it.
  • Thanks. As sad as this sounds, actually one of the reasons I bought the GTO was because it was NOT a GM car. Made by Holden which is a subsidiary. Build quality and interior are better then anything else GM makes except Vette or Cadillac and they are lot MORE $$.

    I wished they would bring Holden over here. Nice cars and all RWD. My GXP is ok-nice, but does NOT have the build quallity or interior of this Monaro-GTO. Not even close.
  • jontyreesjontyrees Posts: 159
    Regarding the style/visual appeal of the GTO - just this morning yet another young lady leaned into the window of my black/red '04 and said "I LOVE your car!"

    Of course, she was only about 9yrs old and had just opened the door for my two boys to clamber out and go to their elementary school, but hey, I'll take any compliment. That's about the 6th little kid that has said the same thing - maybe I can sell it to one of them in about 7yrs time.
  • For it's dull style the GTO does draw more attention then I thought it ever would. I was shocked, but now I get used to it. Prob. not same attention as Mustang, but it's still cool.
  • Ha! - That's great.
    My eleven year old granddaughter is also in love with my car - she even helps me wash and polish it!

    I thought I made it clear that I respect most of the Mustang drivers I read on this board, so I hope the 'uneducated public' comments were not directed my way. If they were - then all I can say is - next time I run into one of the local teenage girls driving her Mustang - I'll be sure to ask her to tell me all about her car :)
  • I would take the GTO, Vette, or Mustang GT a thousand times over before I would buy or mod a car into an import tuner. The ones in Florida all seem to be driven by young macho males. Maybe it's just me, but I don't have the time nor the money (much less the irresponsibility to risk lives) to race every WRX Sti, Evo, or other supped up import I sit at a light with. They always seem to want to race. The GT, Vette, and GTO drivers just glance over at ya and nod their head appreciatively. Maybe it's a regional thing....Anybody else have a similar experience?

    BTW, How do your Mustangs and GTOs handle in wet or winter weather?

    Lastly, who is this "the preacher" guy?
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,837
    based on about 20 new england & upstate new york winters & Z28s, i'm quite sure that mustang GTs & GTOs are miserable in snow - unless you use 4 real snow tires - in which case these cars are fine in snow unless the snow''s so deep that ground clearance is not enough. also you are much better off in snow with a standard trans than with an automatic - easier to control the torque with the manual. snow sure seems far away given the tropical disaster in the gulf coast states.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,928
    While, in a pinch, I'd probably use the Mustang in the snow since it has trac control, but not before I put 4 snow tires on it, as suggested. I've got a 4Runner for winter duty.

    I believe one of the biggest issues with so-called "modders" is that most do such a poor....poor job if it. You see some of these cars with have 20" wheels/tires (that probably scrape the wheel wells) and you just know their civic is going to handle terribly with them. Same goes for poorly installed and realized exhaust systems. I won't even begin to address the worth of some of the picnic table spoilers I've seen.

    All that said, there's a girl, about 18-19 years old, that works at a car wash I frequent. She's got 7 year old Mustang, though used, in great shape. She's always more than happy to talk about her 4.10 rear end (on the car ;) ) and the supercharger she put in. It's a very nice ride that she rehabbed herself. I just enjoy talking to her because she's so enthusiastic about cars in general.

    My sister, while not a teen, just bought a Mustang GT 'vert. She's willing to talk about the toque curve and throttle tip-in of her new car.

    Point being, I don't think sweeping generalizations about a whole group who drives any muscle would be neccessarily correct, at least not in my experience.
  • I saw a RED 2004 GTO today with Handicap license plates on it go by and it was an elderly woman in her 60's or 70's. I guess Grandma likes some muscle too.
  • The only modifying I did on my 2005 GTO was to tint back windows, get vanity license plates and GTO decals, one that fits that rear fascia where GTO is cut in, and one on each side at bottom rear of side sills.

    One of the reasons I bought the GTO was that with a 400hp V8 I don't need to modify drivetrain, etc.

    Yes, it always seems to be the import tuner cars that rev their engines at me and want to race, I let them go, not worth my gas or getting a ticket, etc.

    My GTO does ok in the wet weather with stock all season BF Goodrich tires. You can spin them or go slightly sideways if you want to even with traction control on. But you have to know how to drive too.
  • We use our front wheel drive Acura with all season tires for winter, never had a problem of getting stuck. I wouldn't recommend most performance rear wheel drive cars unless you have to use them in snow.

    Not all modders do a poor job, some do and some don't. It's their $$. I do get a chuckle out of the people that take these older semi-beat up $2,000 book value cars and put $5k into it in stereos, rims etc. To each their own I guess.

    One reason I married my wife, very into cars, except she can't and won't learn to drive stick, oh well.

    There is no reason to modify my GTO engine, the car already does 0-60 in 5 seconds or better, how much faster do you want to go? Esp on the street.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 6,928
    gx....don't get me wrong. There are some "tuners" that do an excellent job with their rides. They're enthusiastic and look for real world performance gain. I don't have a problem with anyone who wants to personalize their car the way the see fit, either.

    I do have to chuckle about those who drop $5K of "thumper" speakers in their $2K car (which usually rattles the body panels) that negates any type of sound improvements. I also have seen some pretty horrendous looking "mods" that puport a performance gain, but in reality do little more than make their cars look ridiculous.

    Speaking of looking ridiculous, just last night I saw a 300c with a vinyl landau roof. It also had a mesh gold grill with gold wheels. Talk about taking a pretty car and making it ugly..... :sick:

    You and I are in agreement.....a ~5 second 0-60 is just about as fast (or faster) as 99.9% of anything on the road short of a 'vette or exotic....and more than I'll ever use. Most 'vette's I've seen don't street race. I'm sure it's the same with you, but the only people trying to street race me are the "ratted out" older civics and acuras.....and those can't even remotely keep up.

    Even the few M3's around here don't usually want to test the waters (which is a little surprising to me).

    The f-body crowd usually just nod and/or wave. I get a little grief from earlier Mustang styles, too (which is surprising, also). Had a Ford Lightening owner play with me on a recent road trip to Chicago. But the road turned twisty and he backed off in short order.

    Speaking of Chicago, there's an exotic car dealer downtown. They sell Bentleys, Lambos, etc. Was driving by last Saturday and saw a Lambo being flat bedded to the dealer. As my exhaust was echoing off the buildings at the red light by the dealer, the forlorn owerner heard my car. I thought he would be snooty, but he turned and gave me a "thumbs up" as I passed him when the light turned green. I'm sure he was thinking "what a dweeb, driving a Mustang" Or maybe he was acknowleding that his car wasn't running and mine was. Beautiful cars those Lambos.

    About an hour later, I parked at my hotel and wandered over to the dealership, just to window shop. The mechanic had their garage door open and he finally got the Lambo to fire up. Mercy! What a sound those cars make......!!!!!!! :surprise:
  • I have seen the 300C with the 20"+ chrome wheels, big Bently/RR style grille, etc. The funny thing is that some of them aren't even the Hemi C, regular single exhaust V6 300's.

    The only people that have messed or tried to race with me or younger kids mostly in loud exhaust can Civics/Acura's, dangerously tailgating me and revving their engine loud. I try to ignore it.

    I overheard a guy come up to my GTO and say negative things about it not selling, renta-car styling etc. Yet he drove to the car show in a Marauder (Grand Marquis), talk about a car that is a rental car, whose styling dates to 1992 and didn't sell well and didn't have greatest perf. 7 seconds to 60 or worse. I was about 25 feet away, so he didn't have the nerve to say it to my face, of course. Some people.

    Those Lambos are nice.
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