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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO



  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Know this is off-topic for this board, but do you, or anyone else here, think GM is more likely to make this uopcoming Zeta-lite car now that the Challenger seems to be a go? If there wasn't going to be a Challenger do you think this Zeta-lite concept would be just that, a concept?

    And what does this spell for the U.S. Monaro / GTO? Will this car move upmarket to truly compete with the BMW M3, G35s and such, or be as it is now: not really competing with the Mustang but kind of; not really competing with the M3, G35, but not really?
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Personally, I think GM was a surprised at the huge success of a retro-styled Mustang and wants a (bigger) slice of the pie. No, I don't think the Challenger was the kick in the pants GM needed since (apparently) the Challenger concept will be unveiled at the SAME TIME as the new GM concept.

    Interesting question though regarding the future of the GTO and (perhaps) it moving up market to the $33-35k niche with a potential Zeta-lite coupe in the $25-30k spot. I think this is a definite possibility (and also to distance itself from some of it's own stablemates).

    A side question: would a Zeta-lite coupe (perhaps weighing 300lbs less than a GTO) use a Corvette drivetrain since this would canabalize sales from the GTO? Would a Zeta-lite coupe NEED the Corvette drivetrain to compete with either the Mustang or upcoming Challenger?
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    True, GM may not have needed the Challenger kick in the pants to have the Zeta-lite concept. But I do think with the Challenger being announced to come out in the '08 - '09 time frame, this may have been a kick to GM to get something going on an actual vehicle.

    A side question: would a Zeta-lite coupe (perhaps weighing 300lbs less than a GTO) use a Corvette drivetrain since this would canabalize sales from the GTO? Would a Zeta-lite coupe NEED the Corvette drivetrain to compete with either the Mustang or upcoming Challenger?

    I think it should have a Corvette drivetrain, maybe as an option. It's pretty much the same thing Chevy did with the F-Body, A-bodies, B-bodies, giving them either a detuned or same version of the Corvette mills. I think it would need the LS2 engine to compete with the GT500 (which the convert is a freakin' tank. You see the weight on that thing, damn near 4K lbs., check out latest MT) and the Challenger Hemi. But I think it should have at least the 5.3L. OR they could go with the 4.8L/5.3L. I mean the 4.8L would be ok, if they pump it up a little. But definitely at least 5.3L. Kind of like the 283/327 or 305/350 days.

    I'm not sure if it would cannibalize Monaro/GTO sales, since most buyers seem to like the attributes of the vehicle: somewhat large size, weight, back seat, idie rear. Especially if the vehicle moves up into the mid-$30K niche and GM actually markets the car to that segment, not just saying once or twice that's the buyers they're going after.

    Which leads to a question to you and the board. With so much to-do in past posts about the indie rear in the Monaro/GTO is automatically superior and Ford's use of a solid-rear axle in the Mustang makes it somehow less of a car, how would you feel if GM used a solid rear in the zeta-lite? Would that be a negative to the vehicle? :confuse:
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Corvette drivetrain as on option (perhaps as a 'SS' edition). Personally, I think the use of the 5.3L would be ideal for the 'base' V8 edition.

    Hmmmmm, the old IRS vs. solid rear debate again.....

    Weeeeeeellll, like the Mustang (and the GTO for that matter) it's all in the execution. Would the solid-rear be cheaper? Sure, and that would be a benefit to keep the car in the $25-$30k market. Would it be a detriment? Well, like the Mustang, I think it all has to do with how well executed the design is. I think if GM could bring a reasonably quick, good handling 300hp classically styled V8 coupe to the market for $25k, buyers won't give a rats if it has an IRS or not.

    Just my take.
  • dat2dat2 Posts: 242
    Well, if Nissan could make a sporty rear driver for like 15 grand in 1989 (240SX/Slivia with multilink IRS) why can't GM make one for 25 grand 15 years later?? And the 350Z for 27 grand now? :lemon:
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "...with multilink IRS) why can't GM make one for 25 grand 15 years later??"

    I don't see any reason why GM COULDN'T do it (offer a 300hp retro-styled coupe for $25k with IRS). All I'm saying is that, IMO, it is unnecessary for that market.

    Compare the number of folks who didn't buy a Mustang simply because it had a solid rear with the number of folks who either don't care or who felt that the Mustang handled and drove quite well despite the solid rear. Personally, I don't think that the beancounters with Ford regret making their decision to go with a solid rear end.

    That being said, IF GM were able to bring a 300+hp RWD coupe styled after a '68 Camaro AND an IRS to market for $25k, they would certainly steal a bunch of sales from Ford. I just don't see (IMO) an IRS as being a necessity to sell a ton of units.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Exactly the same thinking here on all points:

    LS2 6.0 for SS,
    5.3L for the base V8,
    maybe the 3.6HF for a base model,
    execute the rear end well and it doesn't matter
    5 spd auto/man, 6 spd for an "SS", or 6 spd man for both V8s

    Think that should cover everything in terms of drivetrain.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Yeah, GM should just hire us..... :P :blush:
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Naw, I don't think they would...we make too much sense! ;)
  • I think that the 2005 gto is a good looking car. Pontiac could of made the car more "muscle car looking", but i like the car. The Gto will beat a 05 mustang..the new msuatngs are too big and too pricey.
  • hey can anyone answer my question? Who many miles a gallon does the 05 gto get "in town", for anyone that ones a gto..? Thanks..
  • I'm getting about 15. With only about 300 miles on the car, it's not broken in yet, and I'm going easy on it.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    The GTO is dead after the 2006 model year. Pontiac's main focus is on a RWD sedan to take the place of the current Grand Prix (which dies after 2008 MY) and compete better against the Charger (I know of two former GTP owners who just bought Chargers, one an R/T, the other an SRT-8). Pontiac may see a RWD coupe in 2009 or 2010, but with all that's going on at GM, nothing is set in stone.

    The new Camaro "concept" that will be shown at NAIAS (leaked pictures of a prototype are out there) will have IRS, so no need to debate if it's necessary - it will have it (so, supposedly, will the Mustang, by MY2009). Speculation says the base engine will be the 240 hp 3.9L engine (as found in the G6 GTP and Impala LTZ, among others), with 5.3L and 6.2L mills as the rumored V8 options. Don't expect it to be the LS2 as that engine goes bye-bye around 2008 as the St. Catharine's engine plant is scheduled to close...

    GM has fast-tracked their RWD vehicles (much like they did their trucks earlier this year), and, unless public reaction to the Camaro concept is negative, it's a shoo-in for production. Expect it to fit into the 22-32k market, depending on engine and options - more closely competing with the Mustang. Also expect it to have a more Mustang-sized back seat than the larger GTO.

    Chevy is having several hundred Camaro enthusiasts at the press introduction event... a sign of what is to come. Also, this project has been in the works for years (GM has wanted a RWD sports coupe since the death of the Camaro/Firebird, the Monaro/GTO was just a stopgap for Pontiac) - if anything, the success of the Mustang pushed this to the front burner.

    There is still some debate about what platform the production car will be on... the protoype looks like Sigma from the leaked CAD drawings, but the rumor is that the production car will be on the Aussie VE/Zeta platform (which does use some Sigma suspension components). I guess we'll find out in a couple of years...

  • If the 06 is the last of the GT0's be darn glad that you have one. This can only mean it will increase in value in the future. A collectors item for sure.
    There is not a regular US production performance car on the road for the money any quicker or better made than the 400hp GTO including the SRT-8 Charger at this point in time.
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Guess GM was looking at my and rorr's back and forth a few posts back. :P

    Thanks for the update hammen2
  • While I agree the GTO is a great car, I take issue that "there is not a regular US production performance car on the road for the money any quicker or better made than the 400hp GTO including the SRT-8 Charger at this point in time." Most of the magazine reviews have been very close between the S197 Mustang GT and the Pontiac GTO. I will definitely say the GTO bests the Mustang in interior styling, back seat room, and acceleration (just barely though). The Stang, however, has the lead in exterior styling, transmission performance, and handling and trades rear seat room for trunk space.

    Based on Edmund's average cost numbers when I bought my Mustang GT, I saved $6,000+ over a similarly apportioned GTO. Granted the GTO has 100 more hp, but it's greater curb weight negates most of that power. With the extra money I saved, I've spruced up the interior and added extensive Eibach and Vortech upgrades which well exceed a stock GTO.

    I'm not saying the Mustang is the unequivocal winner. The GTO and Mustang are both great cars for very different reasons. The "sleeper" GTO is definitely more stealthy and more collectible/less desired, but it is by no means the end all, be all of US production performance cars.
  • After you have had a little "break in" period I would suppose you should see around 17+ MPG in the city.
  • vxr04vxr04 Posts: 1
    got an 04a4 gto no mod all stock except superchips killed the governer raced with a ninja hit 166mph without a sweat heavy car won't fly as you stated. I've noticed at those speeds the steering wheel stiffens witch is good. control is very reliable and with its stealthy design it cuts thru air like rocket and I kept pulling. no BS just a happy costumer
  • My 10 cents...

    I own a 2001 Mustang GT 121,000 miles...And while I love the power. It is not the most reliable car I ever had. It is in the shop right now. It has had three trannies in it, two front racks, the leather ripped at 60,000 miles....ect.

    Still, I like the car. Even looked at the 05's just the other day. Took one for a drive and liked it. Seemed light and very fast. The interior looked cheap. Not terribly cheap, but not really nice either. The upgrade made it look better, but not much.

    Good points...Well it looks kinda cool. Its pretty fast and FELT fast. Its about 25,000 fully loaded for me.

    Bad points...Well it looks cool, but so did my 2001 and I am sick of seeing 3 at almost every stop light. I think the new body style will suffer the same fate. Also, it looks pretty much the same as the v6...Yes, I know that YOU & I can tell the difference, but the average idiot on the block cannot. I had to explain to my parents and a few of my friends the differences...One guy thought I had the "Cobra" version. The average idiot cop also seems to like the look of the new GT.

    I almost can give the nod to the Mustang GT for my personal driveability.

    I also drove the GTO. It seemed heavier, and not as "quick". It did seem MUCH nicer inside and out. I think it is a higher class of car. I think some of the folks on here saying its like a BMW, or Benz...Might not have ever been in a BMW or Benz. Its nicer than the Mustang, but not nearly as nice as any 325 I have been in for fit and finish.

    Good points...Well its a much more "Adult" car. It is refined and if I buy it I will not have 18 year olds driving 19k dollar V6 versions of it slapping "Cobra" emblems all over it acting like an idiot making cops and insurance companies look at me. Also it seems according to the numbers to be about the same speed as a Stang, and with the same economy.

    Bad points...Well working the numbers both ways, it will cost me more. I am looking at a new 2005 GTO for about 28K vs a 2006 Mustang for 25K.

    The Mustang "feels" faster, but the numbers say the GTO actually gets the performance nod. And the GTO is above the Mustang in the "Comfort" factor and the knowledge that while it may not turn heads....I will not see one at every stop light.

    Most reviewers give the nod to the Mustang based on "Style"....Well thats great, but I think the style fades with so many out there and with so many of those being V6's it makes me give the nod to the GTO.

    Two questions remain.

    I HATE the over 70 warning on the GTO, and the two hour "Rest" chime sucks. Can I turn those off?

    Does the GTO need high test vs the Stangs regular?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    It has had three trannies in it, ...

    Who you ride around in it is no indication of your Mustang's reliability. :surprise:

    Does the GTO need high test vs the Stangs regular?

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