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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO

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  • BTW, what price did the dealer give you on that GT500 you were there to discuss ordering?

    He couldn't give me a price, and neither could the other dealer I talked to about 1-2 months earlier, which makes the figures you quote totally bogus as far as I'm concerned. If the dealers don't know, how in the world do you know? Also, they both said production would be about 7,000, not 10,000. Again, I doubt your cred. Both dealers shied away from making any predictions or promises of any kind. Anything you're reading in the press is pure conjecture and/or BS.

    You miss the point that a car which hasn't even been built yet got $700,000 at auction, a car you compared to the GTO. Repeat, there's no comparison.

    As far as I'm concerned, I decided to wait this one out. There's too much hype, too much hysteria. You're exactly right about the markup. It's going to ridiculous. One dealer wanted 5%, in writing. The other wouldn't even say. I'll be more than happy just keeping my new GT and seeing how the chips fall for the GT 500. For all we know, it could be a disaster. It doesn't even have the same engine as the GT, which is a winner, an aluminum small-block. Instead, they're putting in a cast-iron engine.
  • " Also, they both said production would be about 7,000, not 10,000. Again, I doubt your cred."

    My number of 10,000 GT500 seems to be right on the money. Never trust the dealers, they are among the last to find out info. The guys I dealt with for my GTO were also the last to find out any info. I was far more knowledgeable then them on their own products.

    Anyone that pays $700k for a Mustang or even that $1.2 million for that nice old Chevy muscle car is out of their mind, IMHO.

    You are better off with the GT, that is what I would get. If they made a more expensive higher horsepower version of the GTO I wouldn't buy it either. Not worth it to me.

    We have to replace our family sedan and I would love to get a Mustang GT to go along with the GTO, but my wife won't let that happen, I can dream though. We only have 1 kid.
  • Here no evil, see no evil.

    As I said, it was a charity auction. Still, the amount reflects the desirability of the car, sight unseen, which is extremely high. In this case, perception is everything, a very concrete $700,000 everything.

    Believe what you want ... journalists, dealers ... not exactly the most honest sources. I'm going to wait and see how the situation plays out "on the ground," as they say.
  • True. The auto mags-journalists have gotten it wrong many times too. They now say the GTO for 2008 is dead at Motor Trend. Time will tell. oh well.
  • The auto-mags initially said the price would be below $40k, which piqued my interest. Now its creeping up, mid 40's, which imo is inflated.
  • Noticed the same disparities for the Mustang. I don't recall the numbers, but Consumer Reports got a substantially slower 0-60 than the car mags or Ford.

    Also it pays to look at HP skeptically. It's rated 300 for the Mustang at very high RPMs (torque too is rated at high RPM). When you look at the graph, at driving range, the HP is much lower. Another thing is the actual power delivered to the rear wheels, which is also significantly lower. That "300" figure is basically for comparison purposes, as I see it. :shades:
  • just wondering what types of prices people are paying for 2005 gtos and 2005 mustang gts with under 10,000 miles...
  • sigt1sigt1 Posts: 66
    i would venture to say that BOTH these cars are not selling to well realistically and that you can get good prices on BOTH;
  • jtacojtaco Posts: 7
    Pontiac Customer Service got back to me...Here's what they had to say about 4.6 vs 6.0 times for the GTO:

    "The 4.6 seconds
    is the 0-60 time number on the automatic transmission tested by GM at
    GM's Milford proving grounds on a closed course track. The 6.0 seconds
    information found on the website is an altitude adjusted time produced
    by a third party.
    "

    John
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    hmmm, my '99 Chrysler 300M had a V6 engine making 255HP and 255 lbs*ft torque.

    My 2002 Acura TL-S made 260HP.


    Actually, the '99 300M was rated at 253HP. ;) My sister had one. I have an '02 300M Special rated at 255HP/258TRQ (in addition to my '05 Mustang GT.)
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... Also it pays to look at HP skeptically. It's rated 300 for the Mustang at very high RPMs (torque too is rated at high RPM). When you look at the graph, at driving range, the HP is much lower. Another thing is the actual power delivered to the rear wheels, which is also significantly lower. That "300" figure is basically for comparison purposes, as I see it. :shades:

    You do realize that all cars' HP numbers are rated at the CRANK and not the wheels? A stock GTO's dyno numbers will also be much lower. Using the "law of averages" when studying a Mustang GT dynograph will show that the Mustang GT actually makes a bit over 300HP at the crank. ;)
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    Better built, hmmmmmm, pretty subjective. Better performing, subjective as well. My take is this: both are good vehicles, are screwed together pretty well and am much improved over the previous offerings in this group by each maker (front-engine, RWD, V8 power 2-dr coupe - stretching it for Poncho cause the last vehicle to fit this was f-body), and either one car beat the other on any given day. It's done to personal preference, options, liveability and ability to fit the person's particular needs.

    So as always, agree on some things, disagree on others.

    Anyways, yes I do plan on tracking the car this year when it gets warmer. I'll be checking forums occasionally to see when get togethers and events are taking place.

    That's good you'll be track-testing. There are a couple of all-Pontiac events up here, usually one in late spring - early summer, and then one in early fall, like mid-September. Didn't make it to the latter one, but a buddy of mine at work took his Goat ('66 Tri-Power 4spd). So maybe I'll see you at one of those, or any of the other events race events @ Joliet, St. Louis, etc).

    Must admit am curious at a GT500 & GTO run.
  • I don't know about you guys, but I don't do much of my driving in the 4000-5000 RPM range, where the Mustang GT produces its 300 HP and 320 ft-lbs torque. In real-life driving situations, I'm usually only tapping 225-245 HP. Same holds for all cars, btw, where the quoted max HP is produced at only high RPM's.

    There's an analogy to stereo amplifiers. You rarely use the quoted watts. Much more important to performance is the amplifier's ability to instantly supply amperage, for which you need a big transformer and big capacitors (not cheap) -- that's why so many dinky inexpensive amps can claim high wattage, like the Shaker's "500". The automotive equivalent of amps, I guess, would be torque.
  • But the one thing I like in the GTO is that the LS2 V8 makes 320 ft-lbs torque at only 1500 rpm. So barely have to hit the gas in everyday driving. Torque curve is tremendous on that engine. Lot of low end grunt. It keeps going all the way to 6000+ rpm like an OHC engine, even though it isn't.

    http://64.81.147.40//albums/album50/P4237723.jpg
  • carlots, impressive graph, but the source appears to be the manufacturer, not exactly impartial.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    Yeah, it's hard to get a 300M out of your system for some reason. My sister's was totalled. She replaced it with an '02 Lexus GS300, but sometimes she still wishes she had her 300M! :surprise:

    My Mustang GT owes some thanks to my 300M Special for it ending up in my garage. I was going to trade it for an '05 Audi A6 4.2 but was having a REALLY hard time parting with it. The option was keep the 300M and get a second, sports coupe or trade the 300M for a powerful luxury sedan. Well the 300M is plenty luxurious even in comparison to the current luxury car crop, and is amazingly sporty for its size and drivetrain layout. I just needed a little something extra. Something in the form/tune of a V8. The fact that the A6 is so much smaller inside and the GT sounds so good... ;)
  • From cars.com:

    Driving Impressions
    Even though enthusiasts criticize the GTO for not being true enough to the original, Pontiac managed to inject quite a bit of muscle-car personality into it. With the first-year V-8, a manual-shift GTO produced ferocious responses and snarling sounds. Though it quieted down in upper gears, noise never disappeared. Adding an extra 50 hp turns this coupe into an even more emphatic, snorting beast.

    Like most muscle machines, the rear-drive GTO is more adept on straightaways than through serious curves. The ride is firmly taut, but it's not unpleasant on the highway. While it's not so bad on bumps, you might get signs of imperfect construction during those stretches. The manual gearshift is inviting to use but less positive than some. The seat bottoms are short, but support is good.


    Trouble is, you can say this, that, and the other about this car, but overall it just fails to distinguish itself from the crowd, looks like some toy Japanese slot racer, not a real American bruiser.

    The Mustang, by contrast, has wowed both reviewers and consumers.
  • It seems there are plenty of naysayers, but people who actually buy a GTO love them to death! At least I do! Thats why the GTO was the top vehicle in the JD Power Appeal study's Sporty Car segment!

    http://money.cnn.com/2004/10/14/pf/autos/apeal/index.htm

    Car and Driver. Interesting that the GTO outscores (or ties) the Mustang in all categories EXCEPT "the gotta have it factor,"

    In the battle of brawn, GTO gets nod over Mustang.

    http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosconsumer/0508/31/F01-298066.htm

    It's all opinion, I prefer the GTO, you prefer the Mustang. There is no perfect car. There are things I dislike on my GTO. As for blending in with the crowd, got to disagree with you. I get many people in traffic and in store parking lots complimenting me on the car and asking about it etc.

    Ultimately I don't buy my cars based on what reviewers say, many are biased. Just to let you know there are reviewers that did pick the GTO over the Stang. Finally, I don't like high volume cars such as the Mustang, that you see to many of. My opinion.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,938
    ... Finally, I don't like high volume cars such as the Mustang, that you see to many of. ...

    What did you drive before you got your GTO?
  • 2000 Daytona 500 Grand prix 2 door GTP. They only sold 2,000 of these.
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