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Ford Mustang (2005) vs. 2005 Pontiac GTO



  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136
    Based upon your complete disregard for the power of advertising, why does Ford spend so much money promoting a car that you contend should sell itself? If you don't put something in front of the public, you are not going to get the sales that you would have if you did. GM knew going into this, that with such a limited number of vehicles available, it did not make sense for them to initiate an advertising program for the GTO. While sales have been slower than what I'm sure GM had hoped, it still comes down to the advertising aspect, not the automobile itself.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Could you please go back to my post and re-read it? I'm fairly certain that you will not find any mention WHATSOEVER of the role of advertising on sales for either the GTO OR the Mustang.

    But, if you insist, let's talk about advertising. First, the GTO has been featured fairly prominately in generic Pontiac ads, ads featuring the G6, and recently ads featuring the Solstice. Has there been a campaign DEDICTATED strictly to the GTO? After the flurry following it's introduction as an '04 model, not to my knowledge.

    Second, I haven't noticed much of a campaign for the Corvette either. One doesn't appear to be necessary as sales of the Corvette are fine. And the Corvette is quite a bit pricier, with much less utility for not a GREAT deal more performance. Yet, even with little advertising the Corvette sells just fine.

    Third, IMO you are inflating the ad campaign for the Mustang. I recall a few ads when it first came out (particularly the Steve McQueen ad) and a few ads for the new convertible when it first came out. Otherwise, the only place I see the Mustang is briefly in generic Ford ads. Maybe I'm just missing this massive promotional campaign you've insinuated.

    Fourth, with as few GTO's as GM planned to import (and given the price/performance ratio for the car), it shouldn't NEED a great deal of advertising to move that number of units. I'm fairly certain that most of the target demographic for the GTO is aware of it's existence. Blaming a lack of advertising on the slow sales is to ignore the real problem.

    regarding the other post about the issue of oversteering and power application:

    It all depends on what has induced the oversteer in the first place. If you've started to oversteer in a corner because you've applied too much torque to the rear wheels (power ON oversteer), applying MORE power won't help.

    If you've started to oversteer in a corner at a constant throttle or no throttle, then yes, you can help the car regain traction by applying throttle. I would debate whether or not this should be done forcefully as you recommend or gently. It probably depends on the amount of oversteer, available traction, and torque characteristics of the car.

    The reason applying power CAN help with oversteer is because when torque is applied, the car will attempt to accelerate and you'll get weight transfer onto the rear wheels. This weight transfer will help the rear-end to regain traction. But you can't just make the broad statement that oversteer is always corrected by mashing the gas.
  • macatowamacatowa Posts: 69
    You have to hand it to Ford for sticking with the Mustang through the good times and the bad times. I'm sure the have been at the crossroads many times and yet they have perservered, that for me say's volumes about the car and managements identity of who they are and what has made them who they are. What value and heritage would the Mustang have if it was stopped and started again later when the marketing folks say "hey let put some lipstick on this thing and try to make a few extra bucks". I love my 06 Vista Blue GT but I also enjoy my 03 Chevy Trailblazer with 85k on the clock.
  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136
    "Could you please go back to my post and re-read it? I'm fairly certain that you will not find any mention WHATSOEVER of the role of advertising on sales for either the GTO OR the Mustang."

    Thank you for confirming my point on the advertising.

    While I will agree with you that "full throttle" (as I may have insinuated) to correct oversteer in all instances may not always be the best thing, feathering more throttle would have been a more appropriate term. But really, where did you come up with "power ON oversteer"? That one really killed me!
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Posts: 312
    Just thought I'd mention a few times I ran on my 06 GT 5 speed. My estimate is about 360 to 370 at the crank.(cai, headers, X-pipe, cats, tune, Hurst, and exhaust) The HP is still less then the GTO but times were pretty good. 1/4 mile in 12.94 and 60 at 5.02 sec. Not to shabby considering I am still 30 to 40 HP less then the GTO.

  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136
    I think you may be a little conservative in your HP estimate. I would think with a tune, the cai, exhaust and the headers (especially if they're HP headers), you should be closer to 400. That's still pretty quick in the 1/4. What was your 60 feet time and mph at the end of the run? I have a friend with an '04 Cobra (cai, x-pipe, exhaust, tune and 315/35's on the back) whose best time is 12.72 at 111.9 mph. He hasn't had it on the dyno yet, but he's thinking in the 450 HP range.
  • dread2dread2 Posts: 1
    The Impulse Blue GTO is not to shabby.
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Posts: 312
    You may be right; I have yet to put it on the dyno.
    60ft time was 3.89 and my trap speed was 105.17 MPH The headers I purchased are made by Kooks, long tube and very nicely designed, not to many people have heard of them, but from what I have read and seen they seems to be very nice.

    Just a side note, a friend who is running this same setup, for the most part, with a supercharger putting something like 465-475 to the wheels and he said he ran a 11.3 Don't know what the trap speed was.
  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136
    Your numbers don't add up. I was trying to figure out how quick you were on the tree to get under 13 seconds on your run. There is no way you're going to break 13 seconds with a 60 ft time of 3.89. That's asleep at the wheel. I also don't think there is anyway you could be talking a 60 mph time also. When I ran my best time of 13.12, my 60 ft time was 1.90, which actually isn't bad for the stock tires I'm running. My trap speed was 107.9 mph. Perhaps a 60 ft time of 1.89, but then a 105.17 trap isn't going to get you under 13 seconds.

    I have seen a stock '06 Z06 run 11.6 at something like 122 mph. I don't see a 300 lb. + heavier car running an 11.3, even with the best supercharger and pulley on the market, unless he's running something other that Quik Trip 91 octane!
  • lavrishevolavrishevo Posts: 312
    Honestly I don't have the numbers in front of me, I've been out of town working for the last two weeks and was trying to recall from memory and as you mention I am probably way off on the 60 ft and trap speed. I'll let you know exactly when I get back into town.
  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136

    How about a street driven GTO - 10.66 1/4 mile @ 130.32

    Or this street driven GTO - 9.89 1/4 mile @ 140.11
  • cobragtcobragt Posts: 95
    Actually he is not being conservative at all. Before the blower, I had my car tuned with the following mods, cai, headers, hi-flow cats, x-pipe, and axle back. Wish I still had those graphs but the hp at the crank was right around 345.

    As far as the 60' times....yeah those are odd.
    With just those mods and 4.10 gears I managed to get a 60' time of 1.868 and a trap speed of 106.9mph.
  • whatsachevywhatsachevy Posts: 136
    Your track numbers make good sense to me. What tires were you running to get that 60' time? I'm still miffed that you can't get better HP numbers from those mods? I would think you should get close to 35-45 HP just from the cai and exhaust?
  • cobragtcobragt Posts: 95
    You know, now that you have me thinking lol, I might have got it dyno before doing the the headers and cats...
    The intake is suppose to give you 25hp with the tune...then 10 hp per remaining maybe 365ish.

    Anyway....on my OEM street tires, I was able to get a 1.989 and a 1.924 in the 60'. With BFG Drag Radials I was able to bring that time down lower. After the frist couple times ever running on D/R's, I got my 60' down to 1.868.
  • casoncasecasoncase Posts: 48
    Elias, I'm no expert here, but you've got to keep the revs up to 3,500-4000, which 5th gear will not give you at 70mph. Any back-up on this opinion?
  • casoncasecasoncase Posts: 48
    Jeez! Such passion! Well said, Claires.
    I had the 04 Goat and have an 05, which I'm going to goose to 455HP (SLP perf. mod.), install date April 12. Doesn't really matter, all this "my daughter", etc. stuff. Buy what you want to buy and leave me alone. But my unbiased opinion is that the new GTO is, hands down, superior to any Ford.
  • casoncasecasoncase Posts: 48
    This is as absurd as the Suboru (or however you spell it) compared to the GTO. The GT is a good looking car, but so is the Volvo model...whatever. Compare it to a GTO? Come on!!
  • pony_piratepony_pirate Posts: 317
    In order to make the GTO look good in its TV ad, Pontiac cloaks it in shadow, a black car against a black background. Come on, sucker, shine a light on the thing! :shades:
  • cobragtcobragt Posts: 95
    How about we actually get back to some good arguements, or points or facts or what have you...but not this lame excuse to keep the thread going.
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