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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I kind of feel like elroy on this particular subject, especially after being a repeat customer now. I like Accords, as well as Camrys (Camries?). I really can't stand the stylistic "wart" that comes on the new Camry (that bump on the hood/grill), but I know that is is one heck of an automobile, and if it offered more car for the money (quality included) than my Accord, I'd likely be in one right now.

    Hey, I know you aren't a Honda hater, you just disagree with some of the Honda owners, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I happen to agree with a lot of picks on your list, but I'd have to remove the Maxima, Jetta (looks like a Corolla to me), and Charger, and replace them with something like an S2000, Audi A8, and BMW 330Ci (old model 1999-2005).

    Have a good sunday, folks. I'm outta here!

    :)

    Thegrad
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,716
    When I decided to replace my old Accord, it was going to be with a new Accord, even if it looked like an Aztec.

    Now that's brand loyalty! :)
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    Now that's brand loyalty!

    Wow... it may be more than just brand loyalty. I'm on my second Accord and love them both but an Aztek?? :) I think I would have to draw the line at that point.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Posts: 442
    My opinion is... I'll bet you wouldn't even consider it at that point., regardless of your brand loyalty.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    People don't buy Accords for their looks. They buy them for what is under the hood

    I never met an Accord owner that bought for the engine.

    Accord and Camry owners are mostly "defensive buyers". They buy the entire package, and the nameplate. Instead of buying a car with beautiful styling, they buy one that's not ugly. Instead of buying one with a sweet mechanicals, they buy one that won't fall apart. People absolutely hate unreliable cars, and will pay big bucks for the just the perception and reputation of reliability. Luckily, for the most part, they get what they pay for!

    If Accord and Camry would start making their engines from pot metal for 2008, and started crumbling by the thousands, people would still line up to buy them because of their reputation. It's obvious that people are creatures of great loyalty and faith.

    Having said that, I agree the Accord's engine is wonderful. But so is the Camry's, and the Altima's. And the Sonata's 3.3 Lambda V6 is quickly proving it's worthy to join that elite group.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Instead of buying one with a sweet mechanicals, they buy one that won't fall apart.

    I think I got both, thank you very much. :)

    The Accord I-4 has been renowned as one of, if not the best 4-cylinder engines mass produced. It is smoother than many V-6s, and produces plenty of power for the MPG it delivers. One the "won't fall apart" front, I have kept my 1996, which is living proof of what you stated...it still runs, and very smoothly, I might add. It is still buzz free up to 4,000 RPM, and only then does it get a little boomy. It's solid though, like you said, and I feel like we DO get what we pay for (again, just like you said)

    The window sticker on my 1996 LX Accord lists the price at $19k, with my EX being $23,800 (sticker, not what we actually paid). Considering how much improved these cars are from ten years ago, and how the price really hasn't changed much despite the ever rising cost of most products, I'd say my car was a better deal now in 2006 than the old 1996 sitting in the driveway.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Honda needs some new artists

    Yea - I agree the 06 Accord's design has aged beyond it's appeal - I do love the Carbon Bronze color tho!

    Honda's redesign of the Accord for 08 seems like ages away considering every other car in this comparo has been redone to take into account all the changes since 2001 (about when the 2003-7 Accord was born). The Sports4 concept of the new Accord looks beautiful - but kinda looks like a big Civic. May be a little too sleek for this class, but the world is changing.
  • tallman1tallman1 Posts: 1,874
    I know people try to speak for others but I'm not sure it is really possible. Opinions are fine, however, so I'll share mine as an actual Accord owner.

    I'm one of those owners who is loyal because of my experiences. I owned a Nissan (Datsun at the time) and a Toyota. The Datsun had a major issue after 5 years and I've never given Nissan much thought after that. Short-sighted? Maybe, but it's my choice based on my experience.

    I bought a new Accord in 95 because I felt that I got more for the money over the Camry. Everything I read at the time confirmed that. Actually, I went back and forth between the Accord and the Mazda 626. It just turned 213,000 miles so I can't complain at all.

    That was a major reason why I bought the 06 Accord a few months ago. However, I also liked how it looked. And my opinion (that seems to be shared by many) is that the interior is superb.

    I'm in a lot of rental cars and Hyundai, Chevy, Kia, Dodge, and Toyota don't impress me at all. The Camry comes closer than the others though.

    Now if I didn't have a family, I'd certainly be looking at other options. I wasn't buying Accords when I was young and single. In fact, it almost killed me to buy something with 4 doors in 95! However, at this stage in my life, I'm quite content. Time will tell if this car will hold up as well as the old one but I'm willing to take that chance.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    Time will tell if this car will hold up as well as the old one but I'm willing to take that chance

    Pretty darn good odds of that!

    The Accord interior is TOPS in this class. I think the exterior does need new life tho. Almost Paddles! Clear!
  • philliplcphilliplc Posts: 136
    IMO current accord still looks much better than 07 camry. exterior on 06 is not even close to out of style yet.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    http://www.autoblog.com/2006/06/03/honda-fit-accord-and-cr-v-spotted-on-chinese-- site/

    just click on that. Look at the wheels area and where it bulges(Stratus). And like we had a discussion before i can't be a hypocrite and accuse of copying(because every car does from each other) , but why try to get ideas from a car like the ex stratus is beyond me. Maybe it is still the concept version shown but it does not look that great in my opinion(like someone said as well, looks like an overstretched civic(maybe a good thing or bad, doesn't have the grown up feel though if so).

    all that being said about the exterior, i'm sure it will be like the current honda, and have a very nicely made engine, interior, quality, hopefully the brakes are good for once. However i know it will be expensive like the camry, and now with so many other viable cheaper alter(sonata, mazda6, new altima) that are just as comparable, it wont' sell like fruitcakes as previous.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Not gonna touch this - anyone else?
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Be careful, you seem to be trying to disagree with me, but I think we're 99.9% in agreement.

    I wasn't talking about 4cyl engines, but you're right. the Honda 4 is a hella great engine. I have another modern day classic in my garage. A Toyota 22RE! It's 14 years old and runs flawlessly, and always has.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Here's my thought for each of the 3 pictures:

    Fit: looks like Malibu's front end with current Fit's rear end glued together.

    Accord: like a Civic on steroed (pretty sure I am not the only one thinking this way).

    CR-V: I am pretty sure this one is photoshopped because it looks like an Acura RDX with a butt-ugly front end.

    If these pictures are real then I'll have to ask: has Honda's designers gone mad??? :cry:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Careful what you take from these previews. If you'll read closely, it says the "Accord that is soon to be released in Japan"...this would be our Acura TSX, not the US Honda Accord. It is widely held info that the Sports4 concept (which looks like the picture you gave a link to) will be the Japan/Euro Accord and US Acura TSX.

    Also,

    I think you meant hotcakes, not fruitcakes. ;)

    There are many competitors that cost less, but if they were just as good as Accord, they'd be able to sell at the price of an Accord. On the same logic, if the Accord wasn't any better than these competitors, it wouldn't have the pricetag that it does, because noone would buy it (which is about $25k for a loaded EX-V6 w/o Navi at the current market prices).
  • alan_salan_s Posts: 356
    The Chinese Camry doesn't have the bulge-nose. Note the invisible seamless hood-line along the grill. Looks much sleeker and more integrated than the US model, more like a Passat. Take a look... takes a while to load:

    www.guangzhoutoyota.com.cn
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Looks like the only difference is the exterior. Here are some pictures:

    image
    image
    image
    image

    I've gotta say the black interior looks pretty good though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Looks like the new Passat on the front, and I like this better than the "bumpy" nose of the US Camry.
  • alan_salan_s Posts: 356
    Makes me wonder why manufacturers fiddle with their cars to make them ugly for the US market. The previous model Japanese export Maxima (and domestic Cifero) were far better looking than the uglified US version. The Japanese and Asian-market Mitsubishi Galant have a streamlined hood and grill without that horrible bone in it's nose, making it a much more appealing car than the one Mitsubishi sells here. I think the Camry looks positively ugly with that snout, and the visible hood lines between the grill and hood.
  • alan_salan_s Posts: 356
    Talking about ugly cars, I found these Asian website pictures of what appear to be Dodges. Someone must have exhumed some Chrysler graveyards from the '50s. Makes the 300C look almost pretty by comparison.

    Whatever you do, do NOT click on the Pontiac at the top of the page. ;)

    http://picture.auto.sohu.com/@category_c53764_p1.html
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    The Honda inline 4-cylinder is a wonderful engine, as is the Toyota 22RE. However, there are a number of smooth and reliable inline-4's out there, but they generally don't get the publicity due to their relative small production numbers compared to the Japanese makes. This includes the SAAB-built 2.0L SOHC and DOHC Inline-4 used in the Classic 900 series. Smooth and very reliable, many with proper care go over 500K before any major maintenance. And, don't discount the older Volvo Inline-4 as well; it was so reliable that Volvo-Penta used it as a industrial and marine engine. It certainly wasn't a terribly smooth engine, but reliable was its forte. It had more sq. in. of main bearing area than a Chevy 350 cu.in. V8!
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The front looks just like the Civic (nothing like a Stratus). I doubt very much the Accord will look anything like that picture anyway. The 08 Accord will sell (like HOTCAKES NOT FRUITCAKES) for what it is (quality), not what it looks like (whatever that may be).
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I heard a Toyota commercial on the radio today that made me chuckle and wonder. The commercial talked all about the revolutionary Toyota quality and reliability. Also how not to be mislead by other carmakers incentives and claims to quality/reliability. How the higher price paid for a Toyota is worth the value and its ok to pay higher prices for Toyota. I wonder, are consumers getting smarter? are sales stagnent at Toyota or not rising as fast as they would like? Is Hyundai getting to Toyota with the Sonata? Ford with the Fusion/Milan? GM with the G6/Impala? Mazda with the 6? Passat?
    Are the news stories on the internet starting to take thier toll about increased recalls? reliaiblity issues that have popped up on Tundra? and Camry? Avalon? This commercial almost sounded desperate. Desperate for people to follow blindly to Toyota and just believe.. :surprise:
  • beantownbeantown Posts: 228
    are sales stagnent at Toyota or not rising as fast as they would like?

    Doubtful....the Camry and Corolla are the top 2 in car sales in the U.S. right now. And the new, redesigned Rav4 is dwarfing prior sales numbers. I don't think Toyota is struggling at all.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Desperate for people to follow blindly to Toyota and just believe

    Sounds like that's what you'd like to believe. Toyota can bank on their reputation, something every one of the others makers you listed can't, but would give their left one for.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Listening to commercials as if they were onsite news reports is slightly......naive.

    A major purpose of a commercial is to generate traffic .. nothing else. Furniture stores have been 'going out of business for 40 yrs' 'Last chance' ( on this particular shipment of inventory ;) )

    Retailing is based on getting the most foot traffic into a sales environment.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    Toyota can bank on their reputation

    Isn't this what thousands of other top shelf companies do every day? Of course. And a reputation as strong as Toyota's doesn't happen with one or two good models and one or two good sales years. They've earned their top tier rep.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,183
    <with one or two good models and one or two good sales years.

    ...nor without some attitudinal help from the media folks through the years to mitigate problems which Toyota did (does) have like most companies with their cars. But when the media downplays the problems there and plays them up elsewhere for other companies, the public's opinion is affected. (Can you say "sludge, hesitations, etc.?) That's my opinion based on years of observation.
  • alan_salan_s Posts: 356
    Toyota absolutely earned their reputation for quality over 30 years. Hyundai also earned their reputation for junk over 20 years.

    Suddenly the new Hyundais are top quality and nothing like the junk of the past, but it will take years to shake their bad reputation.

    Paradoxically, suddenly the new Toyotas are inferior quality and really nothing like their high-quality forebearers, and it will take a few less years to shake their good reputation.

    Having scratched below the surface of these new Toyotas and taken them apart just like I did the older Toyotas, I am convinced that the quality has been compromised.

    Take a look at the engine mounts, suspension components and other components on the new Hyundais, and they have obviously been copied from the designs of the quality Toyotas of yore.

    The press, however, does tend to side with the perceived winner of the day.

    If Toyota doesn't pull it's socks up, what is happening to GM today will happen to Toyota tomorrow. The mighty shall fall again.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,183
    One problem with many cars is they cheapen the quality of certain parts as they go along because the public won't know the difference, they hope, and they decontent the car of certain options thinking the public won't notice. And most don't.
This discussion has been closed.