Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

1128129131133134391

Comments

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The chances of getting over the Kelly Blue Book for an Accord are very good. The chances of getting over the Blue Book for a Sonata are not very good. The seller can not influence the resale value (it is worth what it is worth). You can ask for more than the resale value, but then the seller will be the one refusing to pay the inflated price.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    The chances of getting over the Kelly Blue Book for an Accord are very good. The chances of getting over the Blue Book for a Sonata are not very good.

    Why is that? Doesn't KBB know anything about how these cars depreciate? Do you have any real-world data to share on actual resale prices of '06 Sonatas vs. their KBB value?
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I checked the listings for 2006 models. The Accord sells for about 4 to five thousand dollars more than the Sonata. There goes the money you thought you saved. A Sonata is not worth as much as an Accord. That's just the way it is. Whether you like it, or not.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    The chances of getting over KBB or NADA book values for all makes & models, for a well maintained car, are very good since these book values are supposed to represent the "average" value.

    Obviously some cars of all models, incuding Accord, will be below book value.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    The chances of getting over the Blue Book for a Sonata are not very good. The seller can not influence the resale value (it is worth what it is worth).

    All used vehicles sell in a range. You can get top dollar, average, or bottom. Which would you rather have Elroy? I rather have top dollar, so I work for it. I take good care of my vehicles, and always get a good price. That's a fact. Barring a significant wreck, I have no doubt my 2006 Sonata will fetch a decent price on the private market in 10 years... as 10 year old cars go! Sorry if that doesn't fit your broad vision of the used car world. ;)

    Backy is right. You can't compare moderately priced and high priced car resale value on a dollar basis. You must go by the percentage of the actual new price paid. Since I only paid $18,600 OTD, I don't expect my 10 year old car to fetch as much as a $25K car.

    Nor do I even care. I'll take the $6K up front over the $1-2K on the back end every time, thank you! :D
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    An entry level luxury performance car doesn't mean upper crust bro. I think (styling aside) the high end Accord defintely approaches this next step up more than any other car in this comparo. Defintely moreso than a Hyundai.

    I can hear the snickers now at the Nordstrom valet parking stand. " You take the Hyundai...."
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Which would you rather have Elroy? I rather have top dollar, so I work for it.

    That's right, it's a range. But if you can sell a Sonata in the top of this range, you can also sell an Accord in the top of the range. So your point is pointless. The fact is, you can sell a 2006 Accord for about $5,000 more than you can sell a 2006 Sonata for. Check the listings yourself.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    The Accord should sell used for $4000-5000 more than a Sonata, since it costs at least that much more as a new car than a Sonata. No one is saying a Sonata magically gains value as it ages. But if someone thinks the great depreciation rates on cars like the Accord or Camry will save them money in the long run, they may be in for a nasty surprise.

    In the insurance industry, there is a saying: "Buy term [insurance] and invest the difference." In the mid-sized car field, we could say instead, "Buy a Sonata and invest the difference." ;)
  • ctc1ctc1 Posts: 66
    If you invest the difference instead of pay interest on the $5000 the numbers get even better with the less expensive car.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    "Buy a Sonata and invest the difference."

    Yea, sure. Everybody is going to do that.

    I can buy an Accord say for $25,000 and sell it 10 years later for $9,000. You can buy a Sonata for $20,000 and sell it 10 years later for $4,000. Guess what, we both both ended up spending $16,000 for our cars. But the clincher is, I drove around in a better car, for 10 years, than you did. You can say my numbers are off, but they are probably pretty close to reality.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    The problem with your example is that it's very unlikely you will be able to sell a 10 year old Accord for anywhere near $9000. According to Edmunds' TMV for a 1996 Accord EX V6 (which would have cost about $25k new), the private party price for a car in good condition and 120,000 miles is less than $5000. The 1996-98 Accords advertised in my local paper today ranged in asking price from $3250 to $5995.

    So I'd rather be selling the Sonata in 10 years than the Accord. And I prefer how the Sonata drives to the Accord.

    P.S. If I take that $5000 up front savings you mentioned and use it to pay down my mortgage, I would save lots more money over the next 10 years.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    If you invest the difference instead of pay interest on the $5000 the numbers get even better with the less expensive car.

    Since money for the new car comes out of my savings and credit union, it's the same as investing the difference. The less I withdraw, the less interest I lose.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    In 10 years from now, a 2006 Accord will be worth much more than a 96 Accord is worth now. Ever heard of something called "INFLATION"? Everything is going up, especially in a 10 year span.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I can buy an Accord say for $25,000 and sell it 10 years later for $9,000. You can buy a Sonata for $20,000 and sell it 10 years later for $4,000. Guess what, we both both ended up spending $16,000 for our cars. But the clincher is, I drove around in a better car, for 10 years, than you did. You can say my numbers are off, but they are probably pretty close to reality.

    $4K for a 10 year old 06 Sonata should be no problem when the day comes. $9K for a 10 year old Accord in today's dollars? Possible, but that would probably be some kind of world record or something. They go for about $6K around here, but only if they are 1 owner, <150K miles, and in excellent condition.

    The question of who drove the best car after 10 years is unknowable until the 10 years are up. You may be right, the Accord may be better, but not likely $5K better OMHO.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    I can say the same for a ten-year-old 2006 Sonata.

    A 1996 Accord EX V6 cost $25,100 new. Even if you could have gotten a big discount on it, say you could have saved $3000 off list and gotten the car at invoice, no small feat in 1996 on an Accord (no rebates back then either), the car would have lost over $17,000 in value in ten years according to Edmunds.com. Why wouldn't a 2006 Accord lose at least that much in dollar value in ten years, and probably more since it would cost more?

    It looks like the value equation is still tilted in favor of the Sonata, especially when considering interest charges avoided and the value of any interest earned on the purchase price difference.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Hey, you forgot to tell him you can take the $5K difference and buy stock in Honda (HMC). Actually, you both will like your own buys the most. If [elroy5] bought the Sonata and had any problems he would be miserable. The Honda is what he likes and the difference, if any, is well worth it. Each of you need to buy what you end up adding up as the best car and best deal of car to be happy. Honda has a good history, and Hyundai is having the greatest comeback in history and offering great product, price and content. Honda is an excellent engine designer, and has had lots of reliable cars over time. Hyundai is showing great reliability figures recently. There is no wrong choice here. Now go buy a Nissan, Toyota, or Fusion --- just kidding :)

    I like Honda. I like what I have seen of Hyundai lately. I will look over lots of different cars. Actually, I may buy something totally different, as I do like cars with some character to them. Looking for cars with some soul. The Dodge Stealth just grabbed me when I saw her in the showroom. Most cars these days are too bland, or too expensive if not bland. I 'm thinking, I'm thinking. In sedans the Altima, then the CTS and perhaps now the Fusion seem to have a little spice to them. The Azera? Not sure. The Sonata, nice package - maybe too Accord in looks. And I would test drive the i4 Accord, then the Sonata i4 and/or the V6 in the same day to see how they compare. I know some will like the Sonata better after the test drive, while some may not. And again, where is the spice? Saw a 2003 CTS for $25K today. Told the salesman that it was too expensive, and that it is priced like a brand new Azera.
    -Loren
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Only problem I have with what you are saying is that every vehicle in Lexus's lineup (except maybe the GS) screams "ME TOO" as well, yet those cars definitely have PANCHE.

    Styling means absolutely squat, its the refinement that matters, and that's where the Accord seriously packs the bunch.

    Think about it, Toyota redesigns the Camry and can only beat the Accord by less than a point in a comparison test. Now that's refinement.

    As the driver of an 05 Altima, I feel both the Accord and Camry, especially in higher trim levels, have more panche than say the Altima 3.5SE or 3.5SL, Sonata or even Mazda6, but you'll pay for it :)
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Styling means absolutely squat, its the refinement that matters, and that's where the Accord seriously packs the bunch.

    I couldn't agree more.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Saw a 2003 CTS for $25K today. Told the salesman that it was too expensive, and that it is priced like a brand new Azera.

    With a Cadillac, you are paying some of the price for name recognition ("class" points). Many people don't even know what an Azera is. Just depends how much saying "It's a Cadillac" is worth to you. To me, the name Cadillac doesn't mean very much. Everyone is different. I would not pay the extra money for an Acura TL, just for the "Style points". Some people do.
  • There seems to be far too many "Google-Fu" experts in this thread that haven't driven a Hyundai since the mid-80s Excel.

    The new Sonatas are every bit as good as the Accord and Hyundai recently ranked 3rd in build quality behind Porsche and Buick.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The new Sonatas are every bit as good as the Accord.

    No, they are not. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    There also seems to be far too many pro-Hyundaiers on this thread when the desire for a Hyundai in the 'real non-Edmunds' world is a fraction of what those here want to make it appear to be........
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    To be fair, please elaborate with your own observations. State your case, instead of a blantant rejection ("No, they are not [/end]" ) of what the other poster had to say - post some substance to form your opinion. By the same token you have your opinions, everyone else is also entitled to his/her opinions, which I would agree with. However, posts like "No, they are not [/end]" - this doesn't exactly sound like accepting other's opinion. Now, isn't it? Due us all a favor and go drive some competitions before posting igorance/hate/bash everywhere.

    Anyway, in my opinion, I feel the gap is closing and is very small now between the leaders and the challengers; especially in the midsize category. I don't think there is such a thing anymore as one car being more superior than another; every model is ver competitive now. Car A might have an edge in one area; while car B is better in another area. Bottom line, all great cars, and consumers cannot go wrong with any model they choose.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Technically, an opinion doesn't make one car a better one than another. Unless there is some sort of data to prove a benefit or an element of the car proven to be worse than another car, it is all just personal preference, perception, and a whole lot of guessing. I think the Sonata supporter would agree the Accord supporter has an auto with a good track record. Now the Accord supporter must realize IF the Sonata is reliable, and is similar to the Accord is most every respect as time goes by, then it too is as good. There is no way of telling. The engine is new, the car is new, the plant is new, and well you get the point. Hyundai is saying here is a car at a low price, with stuff like ESC with a long warranty. What more can they do? While you can not with any certainty say that they are the same as an Accord, there is NO way to prove they are not.

    Now there are a half dozen other good choices in sedans, no doubt. Each has something a little different, or better to offer. Lots of things are just subjective. And your neighbor may be just as happy with his or her new LaCrosse and you are with your new Kia, or Jetta--- it really doesn't matter, as it is all opinion.

    When it comes to facts, it matter only as much as you value those elements of the buying decision. I do it myself, and should know better. Telling people one car is so much better for them, when there are to many different things going on in their mind as to what they desire and need in a car to ever come with up any certainty that I know the best car for them is impossible. I can give them my OPINION of what I would buy based on how I see the car(s) in question, and that's about it.
    -Loren
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I feel the gap is closing and is very small now between the leaders and the challengers; especially in the midsize category. I don't think there is such a thing anymore as one car being more superior than another; every model is ver competitive now. Car A might have an edge in one area; while car B is better in another area. Bottom line, all great cars, and consumers cannot go wrong with any model they choose.

    I couldn't agree more, and I think most reasonable people could agree. It makes it a little difficult to chat about cars here when someone says they prefer brand "A", the others think "They hate brand B". Well, that's not true in most cases. I think 97% of the posters here like something about all the midsize cars. The other 3 like only their favorite brand, and all others are called "junk" or similar. Another big problem is that some people made up their mind years ago that they hate a certain make, and even if it would magically become perfect, they would not change their mind. It's their loss. People that consider all makes are the only winners. I would be 95% happy with any of them.
  • beantownbeantown Posts: 228
    One way I would use to measure the cars themselves is the following:

    Take all these midsize cars and line them up. Offer them at the same price to the world. Now look at the sales numbers.

    How many people who would have bought a Camry and Accord before this would now switch to a Hyundai or Kia? Zero, because they would've been able to get one for less money before this leveling of the playing field.

    How many people who would have bought a Hyundai or Kia before this would now switch to a Toyota or Honda? Some number greater than zero (most likely each and every person who bought one because they wanted a midsize car but couldn't afford the Camry or Accord).
  • honda homers need to stop thinkin that the accord is unbeatable. you can say accord is a better car, but not by much. i like sonata because of the exterior looks, cabin quietness & roominess, and the 10 warranty.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,689
    It is not just a measure of the cars, but of other factors such as brand equity/loyalty, long-term reliability considerations (and misconceptions), and perceptions vs. reality.

    I think a better measurement would be to have people do "blindfolded" test drives of the mid-sized cars, i.e. with identities/brands masked. That may not be practical, but it would allow people to rate the cars without preconceptions getting in the way.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    accept that the Sonata isn't up to the benchmark set by the CamCords?

    Is Sonata a decent midsize sedan? YES
    Is Sonata a biggest bang for the buck in this segment? Highly Likely
    Is Sonata the best car in this segment? NO IMO

    It took Accord/Camry 20 years and series of successful models to establish its reputation and they deserve every bit of it. Now with only 1 successful model and you put Sonata in the same league as the CamCords that is just totally rediculous. Is it possible that we are seeing history repeating itself with the Sonata? Very likely. But we won't know it until Hyundai proved itself again and again like the Toyota/Honda did back in the 80s and 90s.

    You bought the Sonata because its cheaper and it serves you same purpose as the other midsize sedans so you think you got the best deal and good for you. But whatever you do please do not pretend you just got a cheaper CamCord because you didn't. In order to be in the same league as the Accord/Camry the Sonata needs to do EVERYTHING as good not just SOMETHING. Also, CamCords didn't establish the benchmark by doing everything as good as the domestics, they did everything BETTER, period. Until Hyundai can come up with a Sonata that performs better than CamCords in many areas they will always be just another midsize sedan whom is trying to chase down 2 very fast moving targets.

    I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:

    front end: last generation Honda Accord
    Roof: Audi A4
    Rear end: current generation Honda Accord (before the 06' modification)

    Before they can come up with their own design, they won't earn my respect at all.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    In order to be in the same league as the Accord/Camry the Sonata needs to do EVERYTHING as good not just SOMETHING.

    Sonata owner here. I generally agree, but there are some things the Sonata does better than the Accord & Camry. The engine felt smoother and quieter, the ride was smoother, and the accelrator felt more positive than both, and the body fit and paint was a tad better on the ones I looked at. I actually liked the handling better on the Camry, but the Accord was a bit better than both. There are quite a few things about the A&C that are better than the Sonata, but only slightly... certainly not deal killers.

    I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:

    You can say the same thing about every current car in the world. These little midsized cars are so well defined by interior, exterior, suspension, safety, etc. there is only so much wiggle room for styling. It's all been done before on every car made since 1960. And believe me, no car maker wants to copy another. Designs are locked in 2-3 years before release, and kept secret. All the makers rule out "radical" designs right up front, so that narrows styling down even further. This makes occasional coincidences inevitable, and dreaded by the manufacturers.
This discussion has been closed.