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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    Well that's your opinion. However, styling in the mid- size segment tends to be conservative as discussed ad nauseum on this thread in the past. In this area, perhaps manufacturers do not push the envelope too far because everyone remembers what happened to the Ford Taurus.

    I would not say it looks like 80s styling because its not -then your saying the styling is like a Yugo - that's a big exaggeration.
  • joblowjoblow Posts: 11
    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.I personally love the look of the Audi6 and the Sonata is as close as you can get,as far as looks go and at a much better price.I know I have said this before,but the compliments about the looks on our Sonata never stop coming,the latest being a building inspector,who aproached us and did not know the make,saying wow I love the looks and style of your car.Everyone has their own idea of whats stylish and sharp as in everything in life.It would be pretty hilarious if our wives all looked the same. :) Hmmm but then I think the HondaCam owners would probably like that.Just joking now.
    As far as getting boring about all this Hyundia talk,my guess is ,if there was more about Hondas or Camrys,it wouldn't be as boring.
  • lservelserve Posts: 50
    One thing - that interior is well done. It was mostly preserved from the concept.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Wow - really? Cause as good as they've engineered the car I feel its biggest drawback is it's LameO looks.

    You're way in the minority on that opinion. I don't think the car's looks are what's LameO. I am a low profile guy, and wanted a slightly nondescript car. Well, I find it turning heads and fetching quite a few compliments. I guess I still like it anyway. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I like it too! The styling of the Fusion stands out and screams look at me! Plus, since the best kept secret is just now getting out, there aren't many around yet.. So, its nice to be different.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Honda has never had a "bad reputation". Hyundai has"
    This shows how young you must be.. When Honda first came to the U.S. its rep was not that good. I remember, my sister owned the first civic.. boy what a piece of garbage it was, constantly breaking down.. Times sure have changed...
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Honda and its reputation.. Don't get me wrong. Honda build good cars.. but with the internet and the free flow of information.. go to google and type in "Honda problems" Wow! what an eye opener for those who think all Honda's are perfect... :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    google and type in "Honda problems" Wow! what an eye opener for those who think all Honda's are perfect...

    I don't think you have to do that...after all, we ALL know that everything everyone posts on the internet must be true, right? :) Just kidding with ya, but, while you will definitely find problems with Honda when "Googling", the same can be said of all other car companies too. It proves very little, unless someone actually thinks Honda's ARE in fact perfect, which they definitely are not. But for me, the driving experience was as close to perfect as I could get with 34 MPG and $21k (Accord EX, I-4).
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "your 1 or 2 thousand you would save on a fusion purchase now would quickly evaporate well before trade in time. in the long run you would probably be spending 2-3 thousand more in total ownershipo costs for the fusion over the life of the car.also, the reason you see no 'fusion woes' inside line is probably because there arent enough owners out there to form a small group.im sure every ford dealer is bending over backwards to correct any complaint a fusion owner may have, BUT,the real answer is , had they been bending over backwards for the last 15 years, ford would never have been in the shape it is in today. they arent bold and certainly do not have a 'better idea'
    You don't count the 0% financing? compared to the 3.9 or 5 percent a Honda/Toyota owner pays over the lifetime of the payments? Get out on the net there are plenty of Fusion owners out here. Fact is the Fusion is proving very quickly to be a reliable, quality built vehicle.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    To me a major drawback for the Kia is the engine selections. None have any real power. If you are going to shell out the cash for a V6, you will want something with a little more grunt. The Fusion's 221 has been considered a little too soft. The Kia is even worse. The Optima in base model form with 161 seems just okay, but to shell out the extra 1,700 hundred needed to move up to the V6, you should get more than 185 horses. I guess if they had given it the Sonata engine, they believed it would steal Sonata sales... which it probably would. THe interior of the Kia is much better than the Sonata's.
  • driverdmdriverdm Posts: 505
    "your 1 or 2 thousand you would save on a fusion purchase now would quickly evaporate well before trade in time. in the long run you would probably be spending 2-3 thousand more in total ownershipo costs for the fusion over the life of the car."

    Whoever said this I'd like to see them prove it. The Fusion is the fourth top reliable midsive car according the JD Powers so how is it that its ownership costs will be so high. I think it will be in line with everyone else. The differences in the reliability numbers are so small now that it won't even cause a significant difference in ownership costs. Additionally I think you can save even more than the MSRP difference as Ford dealers are more flexible when it comes to pricing than Honda and Toyota. You have to remember that if you don't buy that Camry, Toyota knows someone else will. With Ford, they are hungry for any sale they can get.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    This car is the size closer to a tsx. Also if the altima with its hefty size can feel fast with even its 165 hp vq engine, than that is possible with a v6 180 hp optima. Even i'm sure the 4 banger will be good mated to the 5 speed auto and should be 70 percent of the sales anyways

    This is not meant to be a premium midsize sedan, but a sedan that is for a starting family who may want bigger room than a civic or mazda 3.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I agree; my thought on the V6 was, what's the point? Kia expects to sell mostly I4s. I wonder why...
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    ...there are lots of good options in the midsized auto segment for families that may be dropping their $35,000 SUV's for one or two more efficient vehicles.

    This segment and the one below it, the commuter segment, with vehicles like the Civic, Corolla, Elantra, Focus and Cobalt will be hot in the near term.

    Everyone of these models should grow rapidly in volume.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Isn't the new Optima supposed to be bigger on the inside than the Accord or previous model Camry because that's what I read in Kia's owm brochure. Further, the Optima is definitely larger than the TSX and can't compete (a true lack of feature content and most definitely pricing is different)TSX is smaller than the Accord..and the new Optima is bigger than the current Accord.

    Further, while the Altima 2.5L may be good enough in say I4 form, a V6 should defintiely be more powerful than 185 in a time when everybody has 220plus.

    I do find the Optima more attractive than say the Sonata, but they both look like bland pototes to me. They both have that round "wanna be Audi" look but the cars aren't executed as well as say the A4 or A6, but then again I shouldn't expect them to be..since they cost half the price.

    I'm FINALLY starting to see the resemblance between the Audi A6 and Sonata, it looks especially like the previous A6 which had a round "potato" look to it.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    Everyone of these models should grow rapidly in volume

    Maybe. People still want roomy vehicles. Minivans are coming back. They have more room than an SUV, get better gas mileage, typically have more/better safety features, handle and feel better, are more comfortable, also sit higher than a typical automobile, seat 7...(stop me whenever you want)...look better, cost less to insure, have better resale......etc.

    So smaller doesn't mean much. Most families don't want a Yaris/Fit, or a Civic/Corolla, or even a CamCord.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    I'm FINALLY starting to see the resemblance between the Audi A6 and Sonata

    Not me.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    I can see your point...it took me a while to see it in the previous generation A6, not the current one. I don't like the styling of the Sonata, I find it bland and boring, but I find the Accord and Camry boring as well. I don't see as much resemblance between the new A6 and the current Sonata though. I think the latest one is better designed than the last and doesn't have the "potato" shape the previous model did.

    Too bad Hyundai didn't use Audi for interior design and quality of materials, which seem to be lacking on the Sonata IMO. It does everything well, but the interior is a low point. IMO.

    But to each his own...I respect all opinions and enjoy these forums.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Can't argue with you on the advantages of minivans,we have a minivan and a mid sized sedan, so we have both. It is hard to beat the utility and flexibility of a minivan along with not too big a fuel efficiency penalty.

    If you are a multicar family, usually you don't need TWO minivans, however, and the midsize sedans fill the bill with better fuel efficiency and still enough room for a lot of routine trips, with still enough metal around you to be reasonably safe.

    There are a lot of people that would never need a minivan either, so for them it is overkill.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Fusion is the fourth top reliable midsive car according the JD Powers

    How do they know? It has only been around (it doesn't even have a nameplate to look at for past history) for what, a year tops? I'm not saying it will or will not be reliable, I just wonder how JD Power can assume how reliable a car will be when it has no real history. Reliability doesn't come from "initial quality".
  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    The increase in small cars sales may just be temporary. Its all due to gas prices, which are heading down (they are down about 15 to 20 cents in my hood - but still expensive nonetheless). I also think the increase in sales in that segment is due to the re design of the Civic which is now the top-gun in that segment. The new Civic/current Corolla has dimensions comparable to an early 1990s Accord -so they are not econoboxes.

    For comfort and safety though, I would have to agree with you. Specifically, I really wanted a Honda Pilot SUV, but with gas prices and lack of garaging (garage narrow) I went with another Accord 4
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    You all need to understand JD Power's surveys. They have an initial quality survey done of owners after 90 days of ownership. They also have a three year survey which should catch more of the long term reliability/satisfaction issues.

    Obviously the JD Powers survey done to date on Fusion or Milan is the 90 day variety. Not definitive, but still a good sign that they rank right up there in the top four.
  • tonycdtonycd Posts: 223
    It's been amply documented that American makers' poor relationship with their third-party suppliers, made worse by constant cost squeezing of them, results in American cars deteriorating more over time than Japanese makes. This is true even for those American models that start out reliable.

    A survey of the American vendors themselves revealed that the American carmakers treat them with so little respect, they will actually give the Japanese carmaker with an American factory a better part than they'll give the American one. (Note that Nissan, now under French ownership and squeezing its vendors American-style, may now be an exception.)

    It's just another example of how American workers and unions have been unfairly saddled with the blame for the incompetence of their American-business-school-trained managements. Unfortunately, it's also another reason not to give American carmakers your money.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    Though the sonata does resemble the audi a6(Especially side profile) its overall design is hyundai. (compare it to the last generation elantra, hyundais best selling sedan and you can tell why)

    Just wanted to add also Audis new a6 does look sleeker than the previous one hyundai benchmarked, but the new audi a4 looks horrendous compared to the old one(tried to get a lil too cute)

    lastly with interior matters, the sonata is not in the same league as the audi a6 but how can it be anyways with the kind of capital it can work with. It is definitely a tightly made interior for a midsize regardless, european styled
  • ace35ace35 Posts: 131
    lastly with interior matters, the sonata is not in the same league as the audi a6 but how can it be anyways with the kind of capital it can work with. It is definitely a tightly made interior for a midsize regardless, european styled

    I agree with you. I think the Sonata interior is nice, and very functional for its price point, however, i wish hyundai had chosen the layout of maybe the azera's interior. Being that the new 07 elantra gets an azera like interior, hopefully Sonata will get this design also with its next update.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    I agree with your point.

    Whereas the new elantra and sante fe look tremendous in quality, finish and lastly design the sonata while having quality and finish lacks in the design deparment(a little awkward).

    I don't think the sonata anytime will be able to adopt the new interior of hyundai, but at least unlike most cars in its class it is willing to offer 3 color trim levels(black looks really good)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,728
    I don't expect to see a new interior on the Sonata until a mid-gen refresh, which would come for the '09 MY if Hyundai keeps to its traditional schedule. But they could do some little things to improve the interior, e.g. blue gauges, cut the chrome surround on the center-stack panel, use real brushed aluminum door handles inside, beefier knobs on the stereo, maybe offer different types of faux wood depending on the interior color. Those are all pretty easy to put in but would help the overall feel quite a bit IMO.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "How do they know? It has only been around (it doesn't even have a nameplate to look at for past history) for what, a year tops? I'm not saying it will or will not be reliable, I just wonder how JD Power can assume how reliable a car will be when it has no real history. Reliability doesn't come from "initial quality".

    I guess this question can really go both ways? How can Toyota start a whole new line (Scion) and automatically they are deemed reliable?

    History shows cars that have good initial quality are generally great cars. I'm sure there are some exceptions.. But overall initial quality is a good indicator...

    Ford is listening and producing results. Now its time for the media to step up and report the good news about Ford if its going to report the bad so readily.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Look, If you believe the Japanese are in the car building business purely for reputation, I have a beautiful bridge to sell you, red, crosses an open bay, and has beautiful views too..
    Fact is the Japanese do squeeze vendors just as harsh as American car companies might. All in the name of profits and bottom line. The Japanese do it in a different manner however.. seen it, done it, lived it.. :shades:
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Man, you've got that right! They can be absolutely ruthless. If anything gets in the way of profits (or quality) it's toast.

    It's great to have long standing vendor relationships, but loyalties must be ranked below quality, and a lesser degree to profits. I'm sure Camry and Accord are making the best profits in the segment by far.
This discussion has been closed.