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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • thesniperthesniper Posts: 44
    "I can vouch for the "2nd + 3rd look". I've talked to quite a few current Sonata owners in this region, and they've expressed strangers coming up to them and giving praises about the car. Overall, based from what I can account for, consumers enjoy the Sonata.'

    Good for you guys.

    "The other poster did say I4"

    He knows what I mean... check post 3621.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    He said "inline" in the post you answered. Let's not make a big deal out of what was either a typo or an error which is made frequently throughout the Forums, okay?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is about the best GM vehicle I've seen in a good long while. I think the Impala is on the right track as well but this Aura seems entirely different and worthy to join the fray if GM doesn't screw it up some way.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Do you really think Toyota is 'afraid' of the new Accord when it has a raging hit on its hands in the 2007 Camry. The problem for Toyota is getting enough space to be able to crack the 500K unit mark.

    A more realistic perspective is that Honda better have a monster of a redesign on its hands in the 2008 Accord. It's sales are stagnating thus its position is falling consistently and it still has 15 months to go with everyone else bringing new updated vehicles to market...Sonata, F/M/Z, Camry, Aura, Altima,

    With the Corolla and the Civic rushing past the Accord like it was standing still the Accord better watch out for the Altima, Sonata, GM's four worthy vehicles and the F/M/Z triplet.

    Honda hates to offer incentives in public because it does effect resale values but they better do something during these next 15 months. Toyota rushed this Gen6 Camry to market in Mar '06 as a 2007 model to get the full effect of the spring buying season and in effect to 'jump the line'. It's apparently succeeded.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    the new accord is going to be facing more competition than ever before next year so it better be good. Even the new Chrylser cars look good based on what I read on that link posted earlier. Honda is going to have trouble being seen as more green than Toyota, but they may try. Honda isnt going to be able to top others in this class on performance when comparable sedans are offering 230-300hp and the some competitors like the Fusion offering AWD. Of course, like the camry the Accord has many die hard followers so it is guaranteed some success because many people wont even consider anything but an Accord and Camry.

    I for one am happy that the domestics are getting back into the midsize game. GM has the Impala, G6 and Aura plus a new Malibu coming next year. Ford has it's trio and now Chrysler is finally trying to compete.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    AWD might be something Toyota and Honda might want to look into in future generations if AWD turns out to be favorable for cars like the Fusion....I guess cars like the Legacy can be considered a success for the most part, but most cars in this class have done well without AWD, espeically in the South East, where AWD isn't needed as much as say in the North East or Canada.

    But until AWD is offered on the Camcords in Canada, which has colder weather on average than many areas of the US, I'll doubt either car will come wth AWD, especially when SUVs and cross over vehicles will be available with it.

    Honda may have more trouble looking more green then Toyota, but they look more green then many other automakers right now. Where's the Fusion Hybrid? The Altima Hybrid is based on Toyota's old technology and won't be offered in but a handful of states! Sonata Hybrid? Aura Hybrid (another year from now) Get my drift? Hybrids are nice...but very few in this class compete in that race yet. The Accord hybrid is without a doubt a FLOP...but I bet the next one will be an I4 and will do better.

    As far as performance, the CURRENT Accord already compares favarably with the competition and if you remember correctly the ALTIMA was the performance import family sedan to pack 240 plus horsepower followed a year later by the Accord...don't expect Honda to sit back and do nothing, especially after experiencing a not so hot 7th gen model. The domestic were packing 240 horsepower long before the Altima (think Pontiac Grand Prix GT and GTP) but it wasn't long before the Accord caught on. Name ONE midsize famly sedan with 300 hp? No Accord, Camry, Altima, Sonata or ANY of the domestic packs that much punch yet. The Camry is at the top of the range right now with 268...I bet the next Accord might have abou 265.

    So if Honda competed back in 03, what makes you think they won't do it again? Again, Honda is not a stagnent company...if they'd go so far to make such drastic changes to the rear-end of the Accord for 06, what makes you think they won't go all out for the 08 model?

    And as far as Accord sales...Honda could EASILY match the Camry's sales if they did two things..

    1) Offer more fleet sales (07 Camrys are already being fleeted)
    2) Offer higher incentives and rebates...they already have incentives, but not big ones.

    So obviously, Honda isn't too too worried about the Accord just yet, and if I recall, the Accord sales were up a good bit this past month.

    Toyota does sell a BUNCH of cars, but many of those cars go to fleets...like 10-15 percent. That's why the Corolla now outsells the Civic and the Camry the Accord. Take away those fleet sales and the Camry just BARELY beats the Accord in sales...pretty good for such and "old" design vs an all new one.

    I'm also thrilled that the domestics are back in the game. I'm loving the new Aura and can't wait to see the new Sebring in person.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Honda isnt going to be able to top others in this class on performance when comparable sedans are offering 230-300hp and the some competitors like the Fusion offering AWD.

    Yes the Impala SS has 300 hp. But they had to use a gas guzzling V8 to get it (not very economical). Honda has V6 engines that make 300 hp. And with the transmissions Chevy uses, the Honda V6 with less hp will probably perform just as good. Chrysler has been selling Big high powered V8s forever (because they can't seem to make a decent V6 or 4 cyl). And as far as AWD, it's a very small market, and Honda is not missing out on much there.
  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    That's a laugh. They just have the highest CAFE average among major automakers. So, this claim that they have trouble being green appears unfounded. They may have bombed with the Accord Hybrid V-6, but they did not bomb out with the Hybrid Civic, which is hot (as are the Civics in general with no incentives - such as cash rebates). Also, from a safety standpoint, in a recent Forbes Article, they have 5 out of the 10 most safest vehicles (Acura and Honda).

    As far as HP, as noted previously, Honda can easily get about 300 hp on a v-6 and 200 on a 4 cylinder (check out the Acura TSX) while delivering awesome fuel economy.

    Per prnewswire, Accord sales are up year over year and they increased over 15.5% in May of 2006 compared to May of 2005. Honda just placed factory to dealer incentives on the 2006 Accord last month. We shall see what happens to the new generation 2008 Accord. It will sell well based on Honda's reputation and the fact that everything else out there will be at least a year old.

    As noted above sales between the Accord and Camry are roughly equal when one strips out fleet sales. (No doubt the new Camry will probably increase this margin in the months ahead). This has some impact on resale values. For example, a 2005 Accord LX auto 4 can be purchased @ Hertz in my locale for $15,000 exclusive of TTL. The 2005 Camry LE auto 4 can be purchased for $13,500 exclusive of TTL.

    Overall though, this segment is just too competitive, which is good for us buyers - no matter whether you like the Camry, the Accord, or whatever.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    You seem to see the future when you brag about the 2008 accord that isn't here yet

    That's only because others are already bashing the 08 Accord. And they can't see into the future either. (Choe3 claims the 07 Altima will be an 08 Accord beater). And as far as Hyundai goes, why would I even test drive a pretender or copy, when I have the "Real Thing" in my driveway. 03 EXV6 Sedan. Hyundai has nothing on my car. Even as a 3 year old design. How could it be difficult for the 08 Accord to top the Sonata? It already had it beat three years before it came out.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Why don't we try to focus on the cars that actually exist today instead of going out on limbs - however sturdy ... or weak - about the cars that aren't here yet.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    For those who may not have the historical perspective, ALL initial Japanese products, i.e. cars, TVs, radios, cameras, etc. were copies of someone else's designs and products. So what's the big deal on the Korean's copying the Japanese and Germans? That's how it's been done for over 50 years in Asian design and manufacturing circles.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    If they can bash it, I should be able to defend it too.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Good to see you own an Accord to compare to a Sonata. Now what are the items which are better on the '03 Accord V6 vs. the Sonata V6? And what do you mean by "Real Thing"?
    They may share a similar shape, but as you know, that is not all that uncommon for cars which are in the same class to look similar. Yeap, no reason to debate how good the '08 models are, since they obviously are not here yet. Honda overall has some good product. The new Hyundai appears to be good product too. See no evidence so far that it is not. Drive both, compare prices, do research and buy what lights your fire!
    -Loren
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    My point is we ALL should stick to existing cars. Bashing and defending a car that doesn't exist seems pretty pointless to me. :confuse:
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Now what are the items which are better on the '03 Accord V6 vs. the Sonata V6?

    1. Smoother, more powerful, more fuel efficient engine. 2. Classier interior (which is what I see and feel, when I'm driving it). 3. Automatic climate control (which works great). 4. And most of all, the knowledge that Honda proved itself worthy of my dollars,when I purchased my 92 EX Accord back in 91. Many people say that the 03 Accord is not exactly a "looker". I have bought a car before based on "looks". Big mistake. Looks were about all it was good for. I have found the car that works for me. When you find what you're looking for, do you keep looking for it?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Gee, that seems to rational, no doesn't it Loren?

    Here is a completely different perspective (my own) from a 2006 Accord owner. I have a feeling my demographic isn't the norm here, so I'll tell you...I'm a college sophomore, turning 19 in August, and am a Broadcast Journalism major (news-anchor degree, lol).

    As you could probably guess, I, at age 18, could not afford a brand new car on my own, but my parents promised me a brand new car if I managed to get a scholarship...They said they would give an equivalent $ amount to my scholarship into getting me a car. My grandmother also wanted in on it (I'm an only grandchild, so I luckily reap the benefits...I love her lots). My parents were ready to buy a $16,000 car (the amount of my scholarship), and my grandmother had $5k to put in (she insisted I have a bigger car than a compact since I'm 6'4" ish). That certainly opened up a BROAD array of choices to me. I still have the old car that I was used to, a 1996 Accord (fairly small, only modest power). So, I had $21k to spend on a car...

    I looked at several Honda models (I still like the Civic coupe), the CR-V, Accord EX Sedan and Coupe. I also looked at Mazda6, and even Hyundai Sonata. (I was used to my 4-door, and by this point I had decided I wasn't ready to give up that room and convenience, not even for some style.

    The Hyundai had a lot going for it in my eyes. I'm always a fan of room, power, and nice styling. The Accord won out for a few reasons, but it wasn't a runaway like some feel like.

    The Honda had better power from the 4-cylinder (I didn't want a V-6 gas bill to begin with). It was smoother IMO, and the 5-speed Auto is ABSOLUTELY SEAMLESS.

    The styling was a wash to me, I liked the Sonata's organic shapes, but the Accord seemed a little more agressive, and I am 18, so, go figure there.

    The Accord, to me, has more interior style in its proverbial little finger than the Sonata has inside. Dashboard, door panels, instruments, the whole thing. Honda, hands down for me.

    Suspension - Hyundai was closer to Buick, Honda closer to Bimmer. While neither was that extreme, I definitely felt disconnected to the road in the Hyundai compared to the Accord.

    Finally, the nearest Hyundai dealer is 35 mins away, while our Honda dealer (that my family has known and trusted since I was 3, with our 1990 Accord LX) was a mere 4 miles and 10 mins away.

    It wasn't a blowout by any means (although the Sonata interior was a turnoff after being in the relatively stylish Accord with its Aluminum accents and great control layout. Hyundai has done its homework, it just got a couple of the answers wrong to pass my test. The Accord was an A+.

    Hope this makes sense to those who think all Accord drivers bash Hyundai...we really don't!
  • joblowjoblow Posts: 11
    Biggest difference is that we Hyundia owners don't care whether you buy a Hyundia or not,we are not threatened by others who don't like what we do or don't buy,...BUT Honda owners.... especially one in here thinks if we don't buy Honda we are crazy(in other words) and why would we even think of buying a Hyundia.For some reason he shows very much so that he is threatened or why else would he repeat and repeat his nonsense.AS I said before,I own a Honda and had no problems and I own a Sonata for almost one year and no problem. I also own a 2005 Volvo , a special loaded 2006 Chev pick-up and a 2005 Jeep Cherokee. I also own 15 other trucks and vehicles. I have no degrees and own two companies and one of the largest stores in town. Saying without arrogance I can well afford just about any car,and we chose the 2006 Sonata for my wife,because we loved the looks and feel of the drive.I also drive it one in a while and find it is also a sporty drive,especially when using the shiftronic.
    I support everyone and their choices,we will never ever all agree on the same choice and no one is wrong in their personal choice.Anyone who says so is just showing how narrow minded they are.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    1. The sonata has an amazing balance of quiet smooth ride and handling abilities when called upon, unlike the good handling but rougher riding accord(lacks luxury feel)
    2. The sonata is the volvo of the non luxury mid size cars now, no question(high rating in all crash tests, std esc) 3. Sonata meets all the nessities of basics any car should be and that is to include some decent sure brakes for example(Accords brakes are not sure enough, stop time is too long for a supposedly top mid size car)
    4. Sonata has twice the better exterior styling execution, special hinges to lift the trunk and hood(just plain out convenvenient)
    5. Hyundais engine is quieter at idle and has better initial torque(i rather have this then revving too much)
    6. Value, price, more ambition than the accord(6 years till a new car is too long)

    So with that , its a no brainer why i chose the sonata. reliabitliy is not even a question as hyundai is one of the best quality producing car makers right now(3 years straight jd quality at the top 5) and got some of the happiest owners in the world.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I couldn't agree more. If a car fills your needs and you are happy with it, that means you made a good choice. Cars are just equipment, not relatives. We don't need to defend their honor. :)

    I am more than willing to hear fair, accurate criticism about my car. Statements like "It's a pretender" are just meaningless bashing, and don't help the forum readers learn anything at all. One reason that I don't bash other's cars is that I may want to own one some day. I am not locked in to any particular badge, and would be happy owning any of the midsized cars I have driven and researched.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I am more than willing to hear fair, accurate criticism about my car. Statements like "It's a pretender" are just meaningless bashing, and don't help the forum readers learn anything at all.

    A-men...

    I also feel that statements like "styling excution is twice as good as Accord" are useless, since it's in the eye of the beholder. The execution is twice as good? Not to me...the nose of the Sonata is WAY too bland for me. Did that add to the conversation? not really, since styling is completely subjective...unlike engine power, transmission smoothness, and long-term reliability.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    First it was one of my reason why i chose this car vs the accord i don't know why i have to defend it

    and also logically speaking, styling can definitely be objective in terms of objects. Honda has already proven my own point by changing their back end once too many times and not for the sake of change.(no confidence)

    The soanta has put in alot more attention to detail for the exterior, the paint is alot richer, and they do deserve credit for trying and executing
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    high rating in all crash tests

    According to the IIHS side test, the Sonata received an "Acceptable". I wouldn't call that a high rating. Hyundai has the safety systems down. But their side crash test ratings still need improvement.

    If you notice, the Sonata is placed lower than the Accord in the rating area.
    link title I wouldn't call the Sonata "the volvo of the non luxury mid size cars now" Actually, the Volvo S40 is placed at the same area as the Sonata :P

    Hyundai still needs to improve its side safety. The Azera's scores were just released. It too received an "acceptable".
    link title

    I was seriously considering a Hyundai as my second car. But with its current crash test ratings, it gives me second thoughts. They're fairly good, but not great. Although, the Entourage's scores are excellent. I am pretty certain they'll improve their side crash results in the next few years.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    The sonata got good for front and back crash test and acceptable for side. The accord for good for front and side and poor for rear crash test.

    With that i think its pretty even

    But the sonata goes a step further having more airbags std, esc std everything and brakes that makes it the leader in stopping distance in its class. I think thats alot of effort for safety sakes
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    But the sonata goes a step further having more airbags std, esc std everything and brakes that makes it the leader in stopping distance in its class. I think thats alot of effort for safety sakes

    Having more airbags standard? The Accord has 6, the Sonata has 6 too. Is there an airbag I'm missing?

    I admit the Sonata's big safety advantage is the standard equipment on all models. But that doesn't mean the crash test ratings can be lower. I really hope Hyundai improves their side ratings. The 2008 Accord will most likely achieve a "Gold" rating, after looking at the Civic's impressive scores. It's possible that with some tweaks to the Sonata's structure, it to can receive a "Gold" rating.

    It seems after looking at the Sonata's and Azera's side scores. The areas where they received "Acceptable"-Torso, and "Poor"-Pelvis/leg are identical. Both their safety structures, received "marginal". They both have the same problems.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    "They both have the same problems."

    why bring in the azera into the equation?? do you want me to bring in the entourage vs. odyssey into the equation?

    Still pelvic poor scoring or not(from safety perspective nitpicking), i would definitely feel safer in a sonata having esc, better brakes and good rear crash rating for the passengers peace of mind.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Saturn Competitively Prices 2007 AURA
    June 9, 2006

    Earlier today Saturn reportedly revealed pricing for its all-new AURA midsize sedan to retailers around the country. The AURA is set to officially go on sale later next month. SaturnFans.com has learned that the manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for the 2007 AURA will start at $20,595 for the XE model equipped with GM's 3.5L V6 with variable valve timing (VVT). The uplevel XR model powered by a 3.6L DOHC V6 with VVT and GM's new 6-speed automatic transmission will start at $24,595. According to the company, "the AURA's MSRP, long list of standard equipment, refined interior and bold exterior design reinforce Saturn's commitment to offering solid value while executing products like never before."

    Comparison shoppers may note that pricing for the 2006 Honda Accord - one of the AURA primary competitors - starts at a little over $18,000. However, the base Accord only comes with a 4-cylinder coupled to a manual transmission; the 4-cylinder automatic Accord starts at over $19,000. Meanwhile, the AURA XE comes with a standard V6 and is equipped with more standard equipment that the Accord. Honda's better equipped automatic Accord V6 starts at over $25,000."
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The above prices include destination.

    Adding leather, sunroof, power pass. seat and power pedals to the XR will add $2025, to bring the total to $26,620.

    Looks like Navi is not an option, for now.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Very interesting! I will be driving one ASAP.

    Does Saturn still have the "no haggle" pricing policy? If not, we're talking about a possibly nice car at a possibly very affordable price.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Honda has already proven my own point by changing their back end once too many times

    Your point being...they refresh too often? Well, don't go shopping for a Ford then, as their vehicles get MANY updates before a total redesign. I'm not sure if you are referring to the change from amber turn signals to red as a full blown rear-end styling change, but it's quite minor IMO. the 2006 was the main MMC, and taillight design is often updated at this time, as seen below.

    1994-1997

    image
    image

    In the 1994-1997 models, they completely redesigned the taillights, adding width (by adding more on the trunklid), and making larger and more visible blinkers and brakelights, more than just a lens change, to be sure.

    Exterior style and exterior quality are two different things...richer paint? Doesn't look like anything that a designer would style to me. The paint of my graphite pearl still looks wet since I've waxed it, so I have nothing to complain about in the "paint is a lot richer" department. I never said the Sonata was ugly, in fact I did a lot trying to give credit to Sonata. Heaven knows I wouldn't have given them a second look three years ago, but lately is a different story. I seriously considered a V-6 Sonata, but my ultimate want for a 4-cylinder (for fuel economy reasons - college student paying for gas here) meant that the Accord won out for me.

    Everyone is a little stressed/tense in here it seems...rough week folks?

    Everyone get a glass of water...it's time for the weekly chill pill. :)
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I was parked by a new dark blue car the other day, and looked closely at the paint to see if it had a metal flake similar to mine. What I saw were ripples and orange peel galore. When I looked to see who has such sloppy paint, I saw it was a BMW! I have yet to see better paint on a new car than on my Sonata. I guess the robots were very happy the day it got painted. Oh, and the panel lines on that Bimmer were no finer or more accurate than mine. I love robots... :D
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