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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    So what ya think of a CVT transmission? I think I would miss the shift of gears feel. I am getting old fashioned, or just don't like missing that old time feeling - take your pick ;)
    -Loren
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    altima two thumbs up and sentra= the nastiest designed small car

    man is it nasty. Look for the elantra to come in and do some damage to that segment. Its interior is better than the civc and mazda 3 imo

    Hyundai with also the santa fe, is going to be a dangerous auto company in years to come
  • ykangykang Posts: 88
    Hyundai Sonata won the 2006 Driver's Choice Award in Family Sedan. Keep up the good work Hyundai!!!
    Some people will be whining about this news. But I don't care.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    this car just keeps winning awards after awards.

    highest owner satisfaction as well
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    How can you say the all-new 2007 Sentra is "nasty"? Have you sat in it yet? Driven it? It looks to me like it will be a major improvement over the current Sentra. Like the Elantra, the new Sentra just crosses the bar into mid-sized territory, right? So the 2007 Elantra and Sentra will provide alternatives for buyers who need a roomy sedan on a small budget, but don't need the room and power of mid-sizers like the Altima, Camcord, Fulan, Sonata, etc.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The industry seems to think so; the magazine testers seem to think so; and the consumers seem to think so.

    To be precise.. '..some consumers...' most don't though.

    Actually only a very small portion of consumers choose the Sonata. Many, many more choose either the Civic or Corolla ahead of any Sonata. At the moment this is the buyer that Hyundai has to impress - the one who has $18,000 to spend.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,692
    More precisely, the buyer who has $18,000 to spend and is looking for a mid-sized car and not a small, fuel-efficient car like the Civic or Corolla. With gas at $3.00 a gallon and Hyundai seemingly focusing on the V6 Sonatas, the Civic and Corolla are drawing swarms of buyers. I am wondering if Hyundai's marketing of the Sonata will change for '07 with the price cuts on the Sonata GLS (I4), in addition to the debut of the all-new Elantra (which competes head-to-head with Civic and Corolla).
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This makes sense.

    One of the key strengths of the Civic/Accord and Corolla/Camry pairings is that the lower priced vehicle 'insulates' the larger more expensive vehicle from pricing wars. Right now the Sonata is fighting all the battles and that's always tough.

    Where we normally have 40+ Corolla's on the lot.. today we sold out!!! They can't ship them to us fast enough. Zero days of sales.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    the old sentra wasn't that bad, the lines were smooth(Especially ser was decent). But the new one looks really really bad imo, lacks class look

    Now it maybe a good car in other departments, actually the interior looks better than ever. But i'm the type of car owner that cares about the exterior looks(even though we are not talking about a aston db9 or farrari)

    camcord fans isn't there any comments about the sonatas 2006 motorweek mid size car of the year?

    If the sonatas name is not as household, its sure getting to be that way winning numerous awards already with more to come
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    The camcorder household name? Probably Sony, I'd say.
    camcorder ;)

    And a Sonata, while music to one's ears, may not register as a car, but that's OK. Time changes everything.

    I kinda like the Fusion/Milan. What doesn't cut it with you on that car line? The butt is a bit high, and the view out the back not so hot. Anything else spotted as not the best attribute for a car with those Fords?
    -Loren
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    ....PLEASE...before this forum gets closed AGAIN.

    The Chrylser Sebring is beginning to grow on me a bit.

    Here are a handful of videos on this new car. The interior is much much much better than I had expected.

    http://media.xfactorcom.com/medialink/20060622/default1.asp?Event_ID=199

    http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/22/videos-2007-chrysler-sebring-pacifica/#mo- re-3162

    The car really looks very retro lookin outside those studio pics. looks way way more elegant in the videos than in the pics.

    Here's to hoping we had yet another competitor to the CamcordAltiNata sector of the world.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Well it appears to be a taller version of the Crossfire front, with the rest looking a little bit towards the Altima, yet not quite correct. From the photos and the video, I would say someone tried to make a crossover styled car with Crossfire hood and Altima body works, with even taller doors. Unless it looks better in the showroom, I count this as strike two, after the Charger release.

    The previous model was a nice looking car. If it had some better handling characteristics to it, and a bit more refinement, that look would have done it. Dump the 2.7 and make the 3.5 V6 the standard.

    From the photos and movie, I would imagine the Altima, Fusion, Sonata, Accord, Camry, and the rest will all just overwhelm this poor cars release into the big - bad world. I have little hope for it. Like I said, unless it looks better up close and personal. The new Elantra will be more stylin'. Ya know, it moves to mid-size.
    No, the smart thing to do would have been to make a Dart, or Duster again. Now those were long running cars. You see the old slant sixers still running today. Make a mid-sized RWD car which would be a true Chrysler or Dodge and not a Mitsu. IMHO, the Duster and Demons still look good today. Cool tail lights and subtle styled lines. And the front and back worked well together. My goodness, some of these new cars, like the Ion look like they were three different styles of cars rolled into one. Others may disagree, and I may hear from them soon :P
    -Loren
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Seems that windows on cars are getting smaller and smaller. In an effort to eliminate the need for side windows we have the perfect vehicle for that modern car look, and ultimate safety

    :D Loren
    P.S. thanks to a Fox news story for the pic
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    My Rankings:
    1. Camry
    2. Accord
    3. Altima
    4. Mazda 6
    5. Sonata
    6. Fusion
    7. Malibu
    8. Galant


    Guess what Elroy? I agree! I think #3-6 are virtually interchangeable, and in fact positions #1-6 are fairly close. Where I disagree with you is whether #1-4 are worth $5-6K more than #5. Not to me. I'm not drinking the Kool Aid.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    CamcordAltiNata...

    funny. I was going with cam-ccord-tima-nata-ssat-bu-lant6
  • mf15mf15 Posts: 158
    According to the Nissan blurb on the new Altima with CVT you will feel up shifts and down shifts, the computer has over 700 diferent algorithms, this is also I think more advanced than what is in the currant Murano.
    I hope Nissan will keep the price on the V6 at a reasonable point otherwiese they will loose out to sonata/accord/camry/fusion.
    Then there is the AWD Fusion, I only wish that Ford would put the new V6 into the Fusion when it comes time for me to buy in about 14 months. Old Mike
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    Highs:

    - car just feels good: smooth, high quality and enjoyable to drive
    -engine is smooth and power is good. enjoyed manual mode of tranny
    -car is very roomy. I had my three daughters across the back and it swallowed them up.
    -trunk is huge
    -stereo was very good and the more I listened to it the more realized how crisp and clear it was
    - car just looks good. loved the interior faux carbon fiber that ran across the front of the dash and the upper part of one piece dash feels soft to touch and there are no rattles in this car at all. Our $35k Honda Pilot, which is an all plastic dash rattles and is annoying. It looks like Hyundai is increasing content while their competitors are de-contenting. I find it tough to pay extra now for the Honda when I see such high-levels of equipment offered and such a smooth and high-quality machine offered plus the idea that Hyundai will take the keys out of my car at 5 years unlimited mileage or bring me gas or give me hotel and food money if I get in an accident more than 50 miles from home. This is becoming a no-brainer now that we know Hyundai's reliability is better than their competitors. Many will continue to dispute this because it takes time to overcome those Excels and early Hyundais but after 3 days in this car, I am really experiencing a paradigm shift.
    -Impressive details: Even the trunk, glove box and all compartments that open were dampened to open slowly and with precision. The glove box was lined with thick, soft black felt. The inside of the front seat belt connectors had felt on the inside so no scratching of the inner part of the arm rest would not occur. Listen, when I drive other mid-sizers, there just isn't the attn. to detail.
    - this car has gobs of equipment and after pricing it vs. other cars we have rented (we rent every weekend), it is simply more car than anything out there. I mentioned to my wife that Hyundai has a winner in 4 or 6 cylinder cars. If you have never driven this car, I gotta tell you that after spending nearly 3 days in the car, I am extremely impressed. This car completely embarrasses what my wife called the 'plastic Altima' we drove last weekend. Compared to the Altima, altho the Altima was much sportier and had more punch, the Sonata appears like a luxury model in comparison and considering the Altima costs more...wow...the Sonata really embarasses it. The Sonata had trip computer, moonroof, trip computer, fog lights, electronic stability, all the air bags front and rear, etc., etc., and the Altima costs more. Someone has to be getting a knife in the back somewhere for Hyundai to sell this car at this price.
    -there are air bags everywhere in this car: front, side head curtains in front and back with active headrests
    -the electronic stability control came on once when i noticed the right side of the car hit a water and slippery sand spot on Camelback Mtn. in Pennsylvania. Impressive amount of safety equipment for $18k.
    -23.1 mpg in city driving. Not spectacular but again tons of car for the money and I am sure I would get 30+ on highway with restrained driving
    - The manumatic tranny is a nice touch and just extra.
    -I'll say it again: I have driven most mid-size cars incl. Camry, Accord, Altima and Mazda 6 and this car is IMPRESSIVE!
    Major Lows:
    -Very few lows but the lows need to be addressed by Hyundai now because they are noticeably important oversights:

    -Hyundai has to fix the seat cushion of the drivers seat YESTERDAY! It tips forward and at 6'1, I found myself wanting more length on that cushion and wanting to adust the height of the front of the cushion. I am surprised Hyundai removed the adjustment that they had on a 2005 rental Sonata I had. This may have alleviated the problem.

    Minor Lows:

    -Tranny is a 4 speeder. Most have 5 and 6 speed. I am not sure there is any advantage to a 5 0r 6 over a 4 but....
    -exterior door handles not as substantial feeling as the 2005.
    -interior door handles should be chrome
    -one headrest missing in rear seat. should be 3 across
    -grab handle on passenger side was broken. looked like the exact handle as one in the accord we rented a screw was dislodged. shouldn't be!
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    -Tranny is a 4 speeder. Most have 5 and 6 speed. I am not sure there is any advantage to a 5 0r 6 over a 4 but....

    Was your rental the 4 cyl? All the V6's have a 5 speed automatic. If you think the 4 is nice, you should drive the V6! ;)
  • prosource1prosource1 Posts: 234
    It was a 4 Cylinder. Not as strong as the Altima 4 but very adequate.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    This is a great review and one of the most detailed and balanced ones I've seen here. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    when I note that a number of posts from the past twelve hours or so have been removed.

    In an effort to keep this discussion afloat, here's what we're going to do:

    - post only about the CARS, not about the manufacturers.

    - post only about the CARS, not about other members, nor about purchasers of said cars, whether they are members or not.

    - post only about something tangible, postive or negative, about a specific CAR, a feature, an attribute or a detribute (made-up word!), something about which we can civilly debate.

    - refrain from sweeping slurs against ANY CAR or brand. As noted post something specific that is civilly debatable.

    More rules may come as necessary, but that's a start for now. Posts that do not comply with those rules will be removed.

    Those who continue to disrupt this discussion put their participation here at risk ... just so you know.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Tranny is a 4 speeder. Most have 5 and 6 speed. I am not sure there is any advantage to a 5 0r 6 over a 4 but...."

    That is a major flaw with the design of this car in this category. Today, that would be a deal killer. There is no way a manufacturer can get smooth shifts, good gas mileage, lower revs at high speeds all at the same time with a V6 four speed.

    "It looks like Hyundai is increasing content while their competitors are de-contenting."

    That appears to be an unresearched opinion. Can you back it up with fact?

    I recently rode in a Sonata and Accord. I was surprised at how good the Sonota was, but even more surprised at how much better the Accord was.
  • yoribe2yoribe2 Posts: 65
    I recently rented a Fusion SE with a 4-cyl engine and took it for a drive to Pt. Reyes in California. The car had 9700 miles on it. I am using my 2003 Accord as a benchmark.

    Gripes:

    -The transmission does not have a overdrive or "2" selector for upshifting during hill climbs and overtaking. The transmission is rather slow to upshift, and I would want some degree of control over the shifting.
    -The outside door mirrors are comparably shorter lengthwise.
    -The sun visor kept popping out of its catch every time I flipped it down or up.
    -The turn signal stalk is angled 45 degrees, making it somewhat cumbersome to use.
    -The map lights are integrated in the dome light, in the center of the ceiling which is not the most convenient location for them. They are just too bright.
    -The fuel filler door does not have a locking mechanism.
    -The door panel already made squeaking sounds as I pulled the door to close it.
    -Rear seat only has built-in headrests whereas many competitors have separate adjustable height headrests.
    -The key with the integrated remote door unlock button is too big and thick.
    -Texture, feel, composition, "plushness" of seat upholstery not as good as Acccord's.
    -This is rather subjective, but I felt the gauges looked rather chintzy with the wide beveled silver rims and I never liked Ford's lime green dashboard illumination.

    Anti-gripes:
    -AWESOME styling. It runs circles around Camry and Accord's.
    -2.3 liter engine has decent acceleration, is smooth and power is good. I think this is the same engine used in the Mazda 6i and Mazda 3s.
    -Combined fuel economy was 28.65 MPG with mostly highway miles.
    -Audio controls on steering wheel are handy.
    -Trip computer that computes gas mileage is handy.
    -Minimal and straightforward buttons and controls.
    -Auto-locking feature that locks when the car is in motion is convenient. Being able to open locked doors from inside without having to unlock them is convenient. Accord does not have this feature.
    -Two-tiered console box is handy (probably taken from Accord).

    If my Accord was totaled, this car would be on the top of my list for a replacement car. I think the styling easily makes up for the shortcomings I've listed. Ford has a winner here! :D
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    It may not be a lot more than some of those cars, but I wouldnt count the caliber because it's more of a wagon/crossover. That said, the engine is comparable. The GM 2.4L has far more torque than the Toyota 1.8L in the Corolla XRS so I think I would take the ecotec any day. The 3's engine also suffers from lack of torque which is why the Mazda3 isnt all that fast in spite of it's decent hp ratings. The Cobalt SS was clocked at 7.1secs to 60 which is pretty good for a non- hi performance compact car. The lighter Civic Si is typically clocked at 6.7 (give or take a few tenths) which is only slightly faster.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    You are entitled to your opinion but my guess is that you werent really going to buy and Impala. You cant be serious if you think the current Altima, Sonata and Mazda6 have superior interiors. The has a very plasticky interior that is nowhere near as nice as the Accord or the '07 Camry. The Sonata probably has decent materials, but the design is straight out of the 90s, it is totally outdated compared to the class leaders and any GM car with such a design would be trashed in the press. It's really as simple as that. BEcause Hyundai has come so far it seems like the press has lower standards for them and thus says "this is a great interior for a Hyundai". The Fusion is another car with a cheapo interior that I would put on par with the three year old Malibu. I have sat in various Fusions and I have been disappointed with the center stack, the gauges, the fit/finish, etc. It is most definitely not superior to the Impala.

    YEah the Japanese can ace an interior, check out the Galant as a prime example. Honestly, the best Japanese interiors are Acura and Lexus. I am not impressed with most Nissan interiors or lower end Toyota interiors like the Corolla, Celica (I know they cancelled it) and Rav4. I looked at a Rav4 at a dealer and I couldnt believe they were asking $29k for a vehicle with an econo feel plastic interior and a haphazard design that was anything but elegant.
  • I mean, really, until you get up into the luxury class, it seems to me that most (all?) cars today have mostly plastic interiors. There are certainly differences in fit and finish, but to call one car more plasticky seems odd to me. My mom has a Camry. The entire dash board is covered in plastic. My Dad has a Volvo S60. The entire dashboard is covered in plastic. One friend has a Civic. Plastic. One friend has a Jetta. Plastic. One friend has a BMW. Not as much plastic as the others, but still a fair amount! :P
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    It is a nice car. They did very well in the handling department. And it is comfortable...Competition is the way to do it.. and Hyundai is trying to meet them at every point.. of course imitation is the best form of flattery.

    Agreed, it's a nice car. I hope this signals a turnaround for Ford. It has the typical, attractive "world car" body shape as the others in class, with styling and interior cues that American drivers are more accustomed to.

    About "imitation": It may not be imitation at all. It may simply be that they "think alike". When the very best designs and materials are applied to cars (or anything else) the comptitor's designs end up converging. (looking similar). All of the manufacturers are slowly gravitating toward perfection. Because of the convergence princlple, I believe we will see future cars looking more and more alike.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    I agree, until you get up into the stratosphere in price (100K+), does the use of plastics really decline. The question to ask is: "How plasticky does the plastics look?"
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Please see the "rules":pat, "Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread" #4743, 25 Jun 2006 8:25 am

    Debates about the manufacturers are welcome in the Automotive News discussions.
This discussion has been closed.