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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    no pics?
  • mikezoomzoommikezoomzoom Member Posts: 69
    Just curious... how recent and from where is your info?

    As of a month ago, my Mazda regional rep told me that the slightly refreshened 2006 Mazda6 will be an eighteen month product run. During this time the 2007 will be in final development and eventually retooling stages. It is true that the 2007 Mazda6 will be slightly larger than the current Nissan Altima. It will still stand apart from the other boring ho-hum sedans due to the ZOOM ZOOM factor.

    Aggressive style and looks, sharp and clear lines, sport-tuned suspensions, speed sensitive steering... all adds up to make the next generation 2007 Mazda6 an even better player in the field.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Aggressive style and looks, sharp and clear lines, sport-tuned suspensions, speed sensitive steering... all adds up to make the next generation 2007 Mazda6 an even better player in the field.

    Vanilla seems to be the best flavor in the mid-size segment.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    the more I like the new Optima.
    I've been looking at it again and again throughout the day, and I like it better
    each time. Does anybody know when the launch date is in the US?
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    LA Times, Dan Neil Read
    It's a review of Sonata, to make myself clear.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Aggressive style and looks, sharp and clear lines, sport-tuned suspensions, speed sensitive steering...

    Hmm... sounds a lot like my '04 Elantra GT. It also sounds like a sales pitch. :)
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Funny review...
    I like how he parked the Sonata beside the Accords :P
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Can we add Kia Optima to the list on top?
    It clearly qualifies as an import and it's clearly a midsize sedan.
    If Hyundai Sonata qualifies for this board, Kia Optima should too.
    Heck, they are basically same cars. :P
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    e-mail the host? (pat) :confuse:

    I'm starting to like it to... any interior shots? :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Another fine mid-sized imported sedan. But I think there's a limit of six...
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    imageimage
    It seems quite possible that Edmund's got a wrong spy photo for '06 Elantra.
    The spy pic looks so similar to the photo released for '06 Optima.
    I did hear somewhere that the two shared platforms (which I don't think is true),
    but even so, they just look identical!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, there's been discussion for awhile that Edmunds (and many others) goofed on this one. Some supposed pics of the '07 Elantra are only now surfacing.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    Nope... although I just can't imagine a well-designed interior in this car.
    Even Sonata is somewhat lacking in that department.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Than the Sonata. That's the only REAL issue I have with the Sonata, I think the interior is lacking in style.

    Hopefully Hyundai got it right in the Optima. My aunt works for a Kia Dealership in Spartanburg, SC. I'm gonna get ya'll all the information I can on this vehicle. I bet she doesn't even know it exists yet.

    I'll keep everyone posted on what I find out.

    And also, I LOVE the way it looks. It looks like a Sonata with added style. I'm feeling it.
  • johnson5johnson5 Member Posts: 34
    When the gas prices reach $3.00 and above for unleaded regular, many people forget about horsepower, style, import or domestic and starts looking at mileage.
    Many people at my work place already sold and some are seriously considering selling their trucks, Suvs and thinking about purchasing a car with good gas mileage.( even station wagons)The middle class Americans who live from pay check to pay check, got children in the college are the majority.
    Looks that these compact /midsize cars which give good gas mileage ,reliability and cheaper to buy and maintain will sell in much larger numbers.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    There are a lot of Atlima enthusiasts out there, MaxMillion , being one. My question is do you listen to AM or FM on the radio and if so how do you live with the poor reception.

    I am really suprised that the Nissan as well an Infiniti can still get away with putting such a poor radio in thier cars. It might be the Antenna combination, becuase they seem to play XM and CDs okay.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S.- What is all the influx of Hyundais and Kias?? Next you will be seing Suzikis and Aeros :cry: Is cheap people's main criteria ?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    They are blatantly ripping off the design of other sedans. And it's not just one styling element. If I were Infiniti I would be outraged that they made a Kia of all cars almost an identical twin to their flagship, the Q45.

    Kia and Hyundai will never be the premier auto brands until they learn how to design their own cars and stop ripping off other manufacturer's designs.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    ...And the Altima, Ford 500 and Accord were all derived from the Passat B5.5 design.
    The only original mainstream sedan design recently has been the Chrysler 300.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Accord were all derived from the Passat B5.5 design.

    ummm no... Accord copied some old car i dont remember :P
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Optimas are usually a bit cheaper than Sonatas right? It could be a great bargain in this class. The V6 engines quite weak though.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    The only original mainstream sedan design recently has been the Chrysler 300.

    Hmm, and I thought Chrysler had resurrected a retro-Mercedes model. ;)

    Suing for theft of design would cripple most of the auto industry. Any day now, I anticipate seeing a Korean clone of the Beetle.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Make a car that looks like a Saleen 7, Modena 360 or a 911 I might consider one
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    A few weeks ago you were wondering why they didn't have Mazda 6 and 3 on sales charts.
    They updated the site and now the have Mazda 6 and 3 sales.
    http://www.automobear.com/index_home_content.html
    Mazda 6 : Under Mainstream
    Mazda 3 : Under Entry-Level
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    I don't think the Accord looks like a Passat in any way. Do you?
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    The Chrysler 300 may be retro, but it still stands out in the context of today's me-too sedans.

    Yes, I think the current Accord was influenced by the Passat. Remember the B5 Passat was designed in 1997 when the Accords were very boxy. The profile (side view) of the Accord is too much like the Passat to be a coincidence, and I did read that the Accord designers used the Passat as a benchmark for the current generation.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    The profile (side view) of the Accord is too much like the Passat to be a coincidence, and I did read that the Accord designers used the Passat as a benchmark for the current generation.
    Where did you read that?
    Sources?
    I've never read an article that said that.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Absolutely STINKS in the Altima I drive.

    Its been a problem from the get-go and Nissan refuses to do anything about it. AM stations and CDs work GREAT, but the FM reception is awful. I'm not really worried about it because tomorrow, I'm having XM installed in my Altima.

    Hopefully Nissan will do something about the poor reception with the redesign. Reception problems have been an issue since the 2002 Altima it the lots.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...for maybe being equal to or better than the current Passat's interior.

    But the current Accord and B5 or B5.5 Passat look nothing alike IMO.
    But styling is subjective.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    I'm looking at the September issue of Motor Trend magazine (page 22) as we speak, and it mentions a statement by Mazdas new global head of sales and marketing that says to the effect that future US Mazda 6s will be bigger and more luxury-oriented. He also says that it was a mistake to market the 6 as a sports car instead of a sedan.

    Looks like Mazda marketing is sticking more of their noses in the auto design end - Ugh!!!
  • jojo6jojo6 Member Posts: 20
    OK, I did the test drive on an 06 Sonata , and it was OK, but I thought the interior, especially, was about as dull as you can get. I keep getting drawn back to the looks of the 05! Just love those Jaguar-like curves with those MB headlights thrown on. Now, the problem is, with the new 05s almost history, I'm starting to see some pretty good deals out there. I know all the specs, ie underpowered V6, only 27 mpg, no ABS, stability control, curtain bags etc. However, if I can come in at 3K under an 06, and maybe 7K below some comparable sedans, that would make up for a lot of extra gas! Am I the only one with the hots for the looks of the 05?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    A lot of people like the previous-generation Sonata's looks. If you want a really good bargain on one, you could get a slightly-used '04 or '05 for a song.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    A lot of people like the previous-generation Sonata's looks.

    ... especially as the current Sonata appears to look like all the other mid-size sedans. The lithe cat-like lines of the previous generation are reminiscent of the Jaguar. Hopefully, Jaguar returns to its former glory so that it gets copied again by other carmakers.
  • bjbird2bjbird2 Member Posts: 647
    "Where did you read that?
    Sources?
    I've never read an article that said that."


    Here's what Edmunds said in their review of the 2003 Accord.

    "For 2003 Honda has suggested a new direction for the Accord. The company tells us the car is now more "passionate" and "emotional." Its styling and demeanor are supposed to capture the spirit of a cheetah. There have even been industry trade stories reporting that Honda used Volkswagen's Passat as inspiration on how to give the company's volume sedan an appealing aura that goes beyond pure logic."
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Now i remember reading the article sorry :blush:

    Honda didn't make it 'cheetah' like.
    I wouldn't call it copying... because they do not look alike at all.

    Note: No where in the article did it say it looks similar to Passat.
  • 04mazda604mazda6 Member Posts: 2
    My info came from a buddy that is part owner of a mazda dealership. Mazda is trying to keep future cars undercover.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Jaguar is endlessly copied by other automakers (see Sable, LaCrosse, and of course Sonata for examples). But as Automobile mag said in their review of the LaCrosse's styling (paraphrase), the look was great in the late '60s but it's been done too many times (and not as well as the original) since then.

    I don't think the new Sonata looks much like other mid-sized sedans in its class. IMO it doesn't look like the Accord, it doesn't look like the Altima, it doesn't look like the Mazda6, it doesn't look like the Passat (maybe a little resemblence on the roofline), and it doesn't look like the Camry. Which current mid-sized cars does it look like? If anything the front end reminds me of the previous-gen TL, the rear reminds me of the new Lexus GS and IS models, and the middle reminds me of the A6. If you're going to intentionally copy styling themes (and the only one we know for sure Hyundai copied is the A6), those aren't bad cars to copy.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Unless you're looking at the base GL, the '05 Sonata will probably cost at least $4,000 less than a comparable '06. I paid $17,826 out the door for GLS Special Value in April when the rebate for everyone was $1500. Current GLS SV rebate is $1250. The rebate on other trim levels is currently $1750. As I posted elsewhere the GLS SV is essentially an LX, but without leather seats or power driver seat. However the SV includes heated seats which was a $200 option on the LX. The engine has adequate power, 0 to 60 in 8.7 seconds (not a race car, but adequate). I bought the car in FL and drove back to CT, 1365 miles. Averaged 27.99 MPG on the trip with the cruise set just above 70 most of the way. Locally I average about 18 MPG. Most of my local driving is under 5 miles. I've gotten as high as 18.5 and as low as 17.8. The automatic climate control, set at 78 degrees has always called for A/C in the past 6 to 8 weeks.

    6% sales tax and FL state fees were included in the OTD price. Backing out tax & FL fees, the sales price was $16705 after the rebate. That included an extremely high dealer conveyance fee of $479.50...but I didn't matter since I was concerned with bottom line out the door. Whether the conveyance fee was $100 or $800 was immaterial. The real cost to me was the OTD price.
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Well IMO, it copied Accord and A6.

    Yes styling is subjective, but in most of the aticles i've read, they've all said it clearly copied Honda's rear.

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil10aug10,1,4142865.story?ct- - - - - rack=1&cset=true
    Funny article (truethat posted this earlier...)
    The reviewer parked it beside a Honda Accords.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    Your info basically coincides with the article I just read about the future U.S. market Mazda 6 in Motor Trend (Sept. 2005 issue) - the statements in there were made by Mazdas new head of global sales and marketing. This is in response to the upsizing of cars in this segment in the U.S. as opposed to the downsizing of cars in Europe.

    Marketing + engineering = conflict (usually) :surprise:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I believe people see what they want to see, or expect to see. If they think before looking at the Sonata, "Let's see what Hyundai has done to catch up to the Accord", I could see where they would think it looks like an Accord. It is a true statement that "The Sonata has horizontally-oriented taillamps, just like the current Accord." If that's what it takes to make people think Hyundai copied the Accord's rear end, so be it. I thought Hyundai was smarter than that, and had read the press blasting the rear-end styling of the Accord. Honda read them, as evidenced by the '06 Accord.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    nothing like the Passat to me. Even if it had similar lines though it would be nowhere near the direct copy that Kia did of the Q45 from the front. So let's see, the Sonata looks like an Accord from the rear, an A6 from the side, and an old TL from the front.... exactly what did Hyundai design themselves. Maybe they were able to offer ESC because they spent absolutely no money coming up with anything resembling an original design. Same thing Daewoo tried with the Wrangler-copy SUV they tried to come out with.
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    The accord wishes it copied its back. Ctalk how about the bmw 5 series did it copy the dear accord as well?

    I'm sorry but no car company cares about the accord or camry. That is not a high enough standard to make a modern cars these days. Just like hyundai did using lexus and audi as their model cars , many other mid size compnay(will at least try that route)

    06 sonats if there is one car it resembles alot is the audi a6 previous gen. Everytime i ahve seen one, i dunno what it is about it, maybe the front
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    Are you sure we're on the same page?

    The accord wishes it copied its back. Ctalk how about the bmw 5 series did it copy the dear accord as well?
    I'm sorry but no car company cares about the accord or camry. That is not a high enough standard to make a modern cars these days. Just like hyundai did using lexus and audi as their model cars , many other mid size compnay(will at least try that route)

    Maybe you should re-read your post...
  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    All i'm saying is that you think the accord is some great benchmark. Maybe a few years ago yes it was, but i don't believe that is the case no more.

    And the bmw 5 series did not copy the accord as the sonata did not the accord. Just look at the sonatas front, the back they ahve was prob the only way they could have designed it for harmony sakes
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ...exactly what did Hyundai design themselves.

    Let's see now... there's the new engines, transmissions (maybe all-new too, not sure), suspension (with a unique rear suspension in some markets), wheels, electronics, interior (I know those who think it's boring will give Hyundai full credit for that), and the body that has some styling cues reminiscent of other cars but is in whole a unique design.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I couldn't care less about which car is a copy of which other car.
    The cars in this segment look very generic to me anyways.
    (Which is also what a lot of reviewers said, ctalk)

    The bottom line is, does the car look good? Does the design work as a whole
    together (front/rear, interior/exterior)?
    I think the exterior of Sonata is better balanced than Accord and even Camry.
    Interior-wise, I'm not too impressed, but it works.

    I think that's how far people will ponder if they are actually considering a Hyundai.
    Some people (who have strong feelings about alleged design copying) will never
    consider Sonata. Why should Hyundai pander to them and risk developing a
    completely different design? Hyundai is smart sticking to what is proven to make
    sales.

    Look at Mazda. Their "unique" design isn't selling too many cars. Even the old
    Sonata (with its even more questionable source of design inspiration) sold more
    than Mazda.

    In terms of more long-term strategy, Hyundai will come out with more unique
    designs. It's one thing to beat Japanese minors and another beat the Big 3.
    Hyundai needs to build more audience before it can do more radical things.
    They are playing it very safe. And I think they should (with billions dollars worth
    of new investments everywhere from AL to Slovakia/China/India)

    Just some of my thoughts. If you disagree, do it all you want. I'm just not gonna
    write about this topic again.
  • truethattruethat Member Posts: 123
    I'm anxious to see more comparos.
    If anyone comes across one, share with us!
  • ctalkctalk Member Posts: 646
    three cars (Camry/Accord/Sonata) are bland looking, but thats what works in this segment.
    600kgolfgt posted earlier that Mazda may make its NG Mazda 6 more Accord/Camry like (and admited bringing the current 6 over was a mistake) To do well in this segment, you have to be 'vanilla flavored'
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    > 600kgolfgt posted earlier that Mazda may make its NG Mazda 6 more Accord/Camry like (and admited bringing the current 6 over was a mistake) To do well in this segment, you have to be 'vanilla flavored'

    Actually, Mazda's global marketing director didn't say bringing over the 6 was a mistake - they said marketing the 6 as a sports car instead of a sedan was a mistake (I guess he thought it was cannibalizing sales from the MX-5 and the RX-8 or something).... :confuse:

    Just a little clarification. :shades:
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    H'mmm .. Sounds like Hyundais have no resale value. '04 or 05 for a song' sounds like it depreciates like a rock.

    Hondas and Toyotas have very high resale.

    High resale usually means llong term reliability.

    YMMV,

    MidCow
This discussion has been closed.