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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
Would you have been disappointed if it cost you 8 cents more?
Wow. That's highly valuable. Sorry to be harsh, is that the best comment you can make?
Back to the topic. Even my 2005 Acura TL has done 33mpg at a steady 70mph. I filled up, immediately got on the interstate, set the cruise control, and drove a hundred miles. Got off, and filled up. This is a V6. Hondas get pretty amazing mileage for the power of the engines.
This leads to almost useless data. Highway is higher in real life but city ratings are lower. Sometimes drastically. What the manufacturers have done is to put super-tall gearing and tuned the engines for top-end power in order to get those silly highway ratings. But you lose all of your city perfromance and efficiency while doing it.
Why? Because it's only human nature to pound on the gas harder in city traffic to compensate for the tall gearing. If you drive in the city like it has an egg on the pedal and never let it get above 1600-1800rpm, you'll get 30mpg city. But you'll also be a menace to the other drivers as you take 30+ seconds to get to 45mph.
Case in point - my mother's 2000 LeSabre. It consistently gets about 30mpg highway but gets *16* city. 24 in mixed driving is about the average. Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, and the rest are about the same(V6 engines). It's pretty consistent across all of them - 3.5-3.8L V6 engines turning at about the same rpms after gearing is factored in - with roughly the same compression ratios...
When the new tests come out, expect to see all vehicles suffer huge city MPG losses.
***
As for the person looking and not finding anything, Me, I'd love to own a S60 with the wood trim, leather, sunroof, and all the goodies. It definately feels as nice as the E-class inside and with a manual transmission, qualifies as "sporty" as well(at least it does considering its size).
Getting one for under 30K - It's an incredible deal.
http://www.epa.gov/fueleconomy/420f06009.htm
And they'll be in use next year with the 2008 models. Not clear if the 2008 Escape due in January 2007 will get the new tests or if it will wait for the normal fall model year cycle.
Highlights:
City now has 4 cycles averaged together including some with A/C and an acceleration up to 70 mph.
Highway now includes an acceleration up to 80 mph and a longer cycle.
Wasn't that person talking about 2007 models? Of course, if you go used or last years models, you can always expect to pay less. I mean I can get a few year old used M3 for a decent price also. One of the more awesome cars out there.
I would wait for the new Accord, myself. Should be able to get a killer deal on a 2007 Accord.
If you want something more exclusive than the makes you list, consider the Legacy GT, for example, which will be very reliable, fast, safest in measures of crash testing, and offers tremendous handling, as well as a very stylish interior that offers top notch fit and finish? (In addition to AWD, which only the Fords offer otherwise). Give it a test drive.
And yes, I've had many MANY rental Sonatas, Fusions, Milans, Camrys, etc... and to me, park the Fusion and Milan next to each other, and they are undoubtedly stablemates in appearance. In the interior, styling is also very similar - same diminutive gauges, center stack, the differences are in detail ONLY.
~alpha
I get that same hwy mileage and I'm steady at 80mph (I'd actually be a nuisance at 70mph in and around metro Atlanta) with occasional visits to 95-100 to pass (quick burst passes instead of a more gradual pass - what can I say? The car has the power to do it easily).
Around town mpg is 21. The sticker on the car said 20/30.
Pretty darn close to actual. Amazing mpgs vs. HP.
Then you have to do 95-100 MPH so you can quickly get past those "only" going 80.
Tell it to the the patrolman.
Is the speed limit even 70 in metro Atlanta much less 80? Isn't there a bit much traffic in metro Atlanta to be doing those kinds of speeds?
If many drivers going over way the speed limit, then you can just stay out of the left lane and let them pass.
I agree, they are "stablemates" but they don't look anything alike. Park one side by side and there is a definite difference. Interior is more than just center stack. seats, some extra nickle touches too.. take a closer look at the interior..
Ever wonder why when people talk about Honda/Toyota products its golden and believed without a doubt.. when its GM/Ford it just cannot be true..
Had 93 Camry , 21 mpg 3 litre and it was fast of the make but you knew you were driving a large front wheel drive car . The Sonata has a better feel with it.
All the interstates that surround Atlanta are race tracks too. Shoot - even the police are haulin [non-permissible content removed]. Sport bikes going 100+ in downtown Atlanta.
Metro DC not a whole lot different. MiamiDade and Broward/Palm Beach is too.
There are no patrolmen to tell it to bro...they don't seem to care. You must not live in a big, booming metro area.
Wow. Atlanta must have very short commute times with all those empty, free-flowing freeways around downtown. Must be nice.
Yeah, right.
Sorry while I admit I haven't been to all these cities in 5-10 yrs I used to go to Chi-town 40 times a year, Atl 20-30 times a year, DC, Balt, Boston 40+ times a year, No one does 100 mph in these Metro areas.
OK on the Freeways with no traffic, or very little, 75-85 is certainly common but the biggest complaint in every single one of them is most of the time the speed is < 15 mph or at a standstill.
Not talking about rush hour here folks. But take today in NW Atlanta burbs. Humming down I75 about 80mph (going with the flow) and was passed numerous times. One guy passing was probably going 95-100.
Rush hour on the top end is as fast as you can go until you hit the next bottleneck up ahead.
Move to Atlanta (along with the million+ people over the past 10 years) and you'll see.
I agree...I don't know where these guys are coming up with the idea that people commonly are going 90-100+ mph. Pretty much anywhere I have driven, if you are going 75-85 you are among the fastest cars on the road and rarely getting passed.
Lived in N. Atlanta for 8 years. I think people are so hemmed in during rush hour that when it's not rush hour, they let it fly. And they do. If you're going 85 in the fast lane of the top end Perimeter you'll soon find out that ain't fast enough. And the GA 400 toll road is an all out free for all at times. Just about every day you'll see someone flying at 100mph+ - and many times up the right side. It's wild out there.
As for the sport bikes - yea. I-20 thru the city center. I think its gang related. 125mph +. I think there's a fatality there like once a month from a sport biker losing it.
I agree...I don't know where these guys are coming up with the idea that people commonly are going 90-100+ mph. Pretty much anywhere I have driven, if you are going 75-85 you are among the fastest cars on the road and rarely getting passed.
Thats because you are the guy with Ohio plates in Michigan in the fast lane with your cruise control set at 70 and wondering why cars are jammed up behind you.
Typically here you can go 10 mph over with no problem. Though, I did get stopped going 74 in a 70 mph zone in Birmingham last spring. Was given a warning. (I found out later they had put a bunch of extra state cops in the area that weekend because of a motorcycle race.)
1.) "Well, it's been sitting on the lot for a while, so the rust on the rotors needs to be wiped away by braking a few more times."
2.) "All cars equipped with ABS systems behave like that during braking. It's because the pads are coming in and out of contact with the rotors."
Weak excuses; both of them! I've driven countless numbers of vehicles with ABS systems and they haven't exhibited the same type of behavior that the '07 Fusion did that I test drove. I want to drive another one and compare the two whenever I get another opportunity to do so. It's just hard for me to believe that all Fusions have this same type of behavior during normal and aggressive braking.
Here are some of my main observations with the 2007 Fusion SEL V6 that I test drove yesterday:
-Ride was smooth and compliant enough.
-Cabin was quiet enough regardless of the road type(e.g. asphalt vs. cement) and speed in which I traveled.
-Acceleration was adequate.
-Leather seat comfort was average; not the best but certainly not the worst either.
-Engine noise during acceleration was a bit louder than I expected for a V6--but not intolerable.
-The audio trim bezel had somewhat of a cheap look and feel to it. I just didn't care for the appearance of the entire audio head unit and surrounding area when compared to offerings from some of Ford's competitors.
-Less refined feeling overall than my father's 2006 Accord that I drove to the Ford dealership for the test drive.
-Appealing exterior appearance, with the lone exception for me being the tail light assemblies. They just don't do it for me. (Are there any aftermarket tail light assemblies available yet for the Fusion they don't have so much chrome contained within them?)
-Overall fit and finish seemed acceptable for the price range of vehicle it was.
-Comfortable cabin in regards to size.
-Seemed to be a car that would be comfortable to take an extended vacation trip in.
All in all, I have to say the Fusion seemed to be a decent mid-size sedan for the money. With the exception of a few things here and there, the car would probably make my list of mid-size sedans to strongly consider. I still want to see how reliable these vehicles prove to be after 3 or more years of ownership when properly maintained. That should really be interesting to see. I wish Ford the best of luck, and hope that they get things turned around in the not too distant future. But it's going to be a major challenge for them due to the stiff competition that is out there today.
Ron
I know this is a sedan thread but the same problem from the same company, years apart with different vehicles, I find to be interesting.
Old Mike
I've been driving cars with all wheel discs since 1971 and accepted the convention wisdom about warped rotors.
My interpretation, with or without ABS, it's a good idea to pump your brakes when coming to a stop sign or stop light and kinda slowly coast the last few feet before coming to a full stop.
Actually that goes against conventional wisdom. Coming to a panic stop pumping brakes equipped with ABS will lengthen the stopping distance even more than necessary. Only pump non-ABS equipped vehicles. I've never had brakes pulsate from brake dust, I've had brakes pulsate from warped rotors.
If you read your owners manual of your ABS equipped car, I'm sure the manual will repeat what I just said.
Here's what the NHTSA says about ABS brakes:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/Equipment/absbrakes.html
Read the article about "warped rotors" actually being pad material "burned" onto the rotor.
My car does not have ABS. But, as I understand them, ABS only kicks in during panic type stops. Is it correct to assume that ABS brakes behave like non-ABS brakes during normal driving conditions?
Just as general information, ABS only functions when it detects wheel slippage from the road surface. Meaning if a wheel locks up, ABS will kick in. I've had vehicles with warped rotors, it's a PITA. If your car comes with crappy or defective rotors or badly designed brakes nothing you do can prevent warping. It is also said if you don't allow your brakes to "brake in" during the first couple of hundred miles it can cause warped rotors.
I drive my cars normally and don't expend any extra energy into trying to save them. Most brakes last me 40K to 50K, when they need fixin' I get them fixed.
My last car, I got 56K out of the original brakes. This is with very little highway driving and I have a curvey, steep hill to go down each day.
The replacement brakes lasted about 45K after turning the rotors and developed the "warped" rotor problem about 7K later. Maybe it wasn't the rotors but "residue" from making a hard stop on the second set of brakes.
Under normal driving circumstances, I don't believe in pumping the brakes at all. Although I can't tell you if and when I've pumped the brakes on ABS equipped cars.
As far as your second set of brakes, maybe the rotors were crappy rotors or non-OEM. Or maybe you didn't go easy on them the first couple of hundred miles. You never said who installed the rotors, dealer or independent. If it was an independed they probably used generic rotors. I really don't know just guessing, but there seems to be misinformation about ABS brakes, that is all I was trying to address.
There's no reason to pump ABS brakes, in an emergency stop, that's the wrong thing to do.
And Atlanta is worse.
Seeing people doing 80+ in the rain when the road is practically flooding during a brief spring downpour and the insanity in the city center... Yeah I can believe it.
They just don't care about weather or conditions - they just go faster. It's an odd mix of city and country drivers with very little common sense inbetween.
But LA is much worse, unless you have a big truck or an SUV with lots of power, don't try the interstate.
I was there for 3 days and saw many accidents on the same road every day. In addition the bikers are flying between the cars on the freeway - tell me if that is not insanity?
Know this is off topic, but I used to own an 01 Escape XLT V6 4WD and it was a great vehicle. 75,000 trouble free miles.. Just maintain it and it will be fine...
The same, but I don't tap my brakes, I use them as necessary. I don't try to preserve the life of them.
And I grew up driving the mess around metro DC and its aggressive driving requirements.
I gotta say that Broward County FL (Ft Lauderdale area) has gotta be up there too. Same high speeds but nicer cars!