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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Audi has a "luxury" status
    I find it funny that Edmunds calls the Passat a great value.
    I have no clue why Volkswagon makes its cars so high-end, they have Audi already..
    A Fully loaded Azera or Avalon would be cheaper then the top of the line Volkswagon Passat.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I feel the same.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    VW is a very weird company. When they made W12 for their passat i thought that was one of the dumbest moves ever.

    If i had to buy the passat or A4 , with the price savings and almost equal craftmanship , its a no brainer a full loaded passat would be bought over a bare A4.

    puzzling company
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Posts: 690
    >When they made W12 for their passat i thought that was one of the dumbest moves ever.

    The W12 is only available in the Phaeton and the Audi A8.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    and it really wasn't a smart move by VW...
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    W12 on the Phaeton was also a dumb move...
    I seriously dont understand why is VW making its car line so luxurious and pricey... they have audi already.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    image
    VW is pretty much the only major player in the market who lost sales in July.
    I really don't understand why a company like VW (with amazing abilities to
    design and manufacture cars) struggles so much. Bad strategy, I guess.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    I've seen very different (completely opposite, actually) reviews on Sonata's
    quiteness especially on rough road surfaces. Personally, I didn't feel any problem
    when I test-drove it. Could it be some kind of manufacture irregularities?

    Anyways, this IMO is not the most thorough review I've read, but I'm sure a lot of
    people will read it and decide for themselves.

    The reviewer is lukeworm about the car, at best, to sum it up.
    "Overall score: The next time I see someone driving a brand-new Honda Accord, I'm not going to think, "Man, what a dope. He should have bought the Hyundai Sonata.""
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/03/Autos/carreviews/hyundai_sonata/
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    But he also said it's worth checking out the '06 Sonata. So he must think it's a good car.

    A lot has to do with the road surface. If he was driving over the terrible streets of NYC, for example, that could have caused the noise. What would be more valuable is not just to comment on the noise but to compare it to that in other cars, e.g. how does it compare to the Accord and Camry? That's why I like comparos, where the reviewers drive the cars over the same roads.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I dont know what to say... :P

    He still said it was worth a look.

    I few days ago i was looking at the cosumers reports magazine and they did a first drive (or first look) of a Sonata, and said "it was only OK"

    About VW : The problem is VW wants to change its brand into a luxury brand, and FORGOT that they had Audi already. And first of all, VW doesn't have the 'brand prestige' Audi has. Audi is already known as a pretty high-end luxury brand.

    Definitely Bad strategy...
  • lweisslweiss Posts: 342
    One explanation that I read about VW's bad decisions came from one of the business magazines- with the drop in the value of the dollar against the Euro during the past few years, they were desparate to increase profits in the US- so they went against their roots (cheap, fun to drive VW bugs and Jettas) and tried to go upmarket- with disasterous results. But now, even Audi and BMW and Mercedes are trying to hold their own in Germany against Lexus and Acura (the Asians are there too!).
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    Yes, this is the first time I've ever seen one on the road, but I live in a small town...so that's not unusual.

    It looked good on the open road compared to at the dealership.

    It was a gold GLS model.

    I for one am NOT crazy about the 16 inch wheels they give the car. Bland IMO. The 17s look so so so much better.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Have you seen alot of '05 Sonata's?

    As you know, the '06 distribution started slowly to assure quality control. Temporary limited availability.

    I was at the local dealer today for oil change. They only had one '06 on the lot, White GL with manual tranny. I also haven't seen any '06s on the road (maybe I just don't recognize them). In the past 6 months I've seen alot of 03-05 body style Sonata's. Also Elantra's. On the road, I can't tell an '03 from an '04 or an '05 Sonata and wouldn't be able to do that for an Accord or Camry.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I've seen more Accord's and Camry's then Sonata's.
    And the number of sales prove that there are more on the road. (both U.S. and Canada)

    I can tell the 05's from 04's 03's....
    Camry got a refresh very easy to tell (chrome grill, new lights)
    Accord is easy to tell from the behind (red lights)
    I tend to notice these things :P

    Anyways, i was talking about Canada (Toronto)
    they're filled with Accord's and Camry's.

    Accord is selling very well in Canada, at the moment its the best selling mid-size.

    Year-to-date sales
    Civic
    Mazda3
    Toyota Corolla
    Toyota Echo
    Pontiac Sunfire
    Ford Focus
    Honda Accord
    Toyota Matrix
    Toyota Camry
    Chrysler Sebring sedan

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/050803-1.htm
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And the lone Accord was purchased by a person who owned a 2002 Accord (that he purchased after owning a 2001 Accord that got totalled...he had a :sick: 1999 Nissan Maxima before the 2001 Accord). One Camry purchased by a former owner of a 2002 Accord. Other cars traded in: Chevy Lumina (2), Buick Century, Ford Windstar, 3 other older Camrys.
    I have not seen any VW newer than 5 or 6 years old in our neighborhood and only 1 Hyundai (a 5 or 6 year old Sonata) but there have been 4 new PT Cruisers. ;)
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    There is a '05 (or '04) Sonata seating right across the street, but I haven't seen
    a single '06 Sonata in Providence, RI.
    I got the impression from the local dealers that they wanted to get rid of '05
    Sonatas before anything else, maybe that's why.
    There have been tons of Sonata ads on TV (too many I tend to think), so I suspect
    I'll see one pretty soon. It's a college town, so I do see a lot of Hyundais and Kias.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    I thought I saw my first '06 Sonata on the road in the Twin Cities yesterday. I saw a white sedan approaching on my right in the rearview mirror. I could see it only from just above the headlamps. I thought, "Oh, there's a new Sonata!" Then as it came closer I realized it was an A6. :blush:

    I did see lots of new Sonatas driving around Seoul last April, and they looked very sharp. Mostly silver cars--very popular in Korea.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Hahaha~
    You mistook Audi A6 for a Sonata, huh?
    Methinks some here are afraid of admitting Sonata is one darn good looking car,
    Not I! :shades:
    It looks great! I've heard stories about mistaking Sonata as a Lexus or some other
    luxury brand (especially the black ones).
    All the talk about derivative styling are just that. Talk.
    If it looks good, it looks good.
    I don't wanna hear any more "although"s or "but"s.
    I know some of you simply disagree, you don't have to say anything. :P
  • JD Powers goes by initial quality and not long term relability. I once had an Audi LS100 and the service advisor and mechanics knew me on a first name basis. Hopefully you new Hyundai and soon to be Hyundai owners will not know your service advisors and mechanics on a first name basis in the future. Sonata may be the Honda/Toyota car of this decade.

    For now I'll stick with my economic/performance 6-speed car.

    Cruis'n :shades:

    MidCow
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Sonata may be the Honda/Toyota car of this decade.

    Highly doubt that.
    It's equal in Quality and reliability though.
    But when it comes to status, nop.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    status can change you know.
    (Alright, alright, I'm not gonna start this again :shades: )
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Yes Status can change.
    what about other brands like Nissan? It's selling very well and is still not considered a 'toyota/honda level' brand. But yes there is a chance Hyundai will become a "toyota/honda' brand, but i doubt it will happen in this decade.

    Ok i'll stop :P
  • janeencjaneenc Posts: 29
    Status is all in your head,... status comes with popularity. But it only takes a couple of people to go against the grain to set a new image in what is considered popular.Its confident people who try new things to set a different look or standard, then other people start to follow the trend. Just like a great designer handbag... I wear my new lx Sonata well!!! I don't care that others don't know it's the popular thing to do...yet... I get to start a trend!!! ;)
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    I don't give a (blank) about status. Why spend a lot more $ to try to impress someone else who probably also doesn't give a (blank) about what you drive. But you may be on to something. I never, ever, thought of Honda or Toyota being status symbols...just good reliable cars at a reasonable price.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Well you may not think Toyota and Honda of status symbols but i know a lot of people do. Even car manufacturers see them as 'status symbols' I notice they tend to say things like "roomier then Accord and Camry" etc.

    I didn't buy my Accord because of its "status symbol' I have better reasons.
    Ex: High resale value - 06 Sonata's is still unknown
    *I need a car with a high resale value because i tend to sell them after 3 years.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Let me just say that I don't necessarily disagree with (like always :shades: ).
    Here are some of my thoughts. Relax and read at your leisure.

    I don't know if Camry (or Accord) represent any substantial social status.
    Most people who drive these family sedans tend to focus on economy, value,
    roominess and safety more than anything superficial. They tend to be more real :P
    They probably have the most in common with people who buy minivans.

    Plus, Americans love their bargains. Price seems to be No.1 factor almost always.
    As long as we can get good deals, most of us are willing to try almost anything
    even if it is unproven in quality. (Remember Yugo? Hyundai Excel still holds the
    sales record for freshman imports :P) Look at employee discount sales results.
    We love our good deals!

    That's why Hyundai has so much potential in this segment. (Especially compared
    to more upscale segments that Hyundai seems to have its eyes on.) Of course,
    as segments get lower and lower Hyundai probably has more and more
    competitiveness, but this segment attracts enough people who really doesn't care
    that much about status as long as a company can provide good value.

    I believe we'll clearly see whether this car will get accepted or not long before the
    resale value results start to show up on websites and blogs (1-2 years). Even if
    Sonata does not reach Camry level in resale value or long-term quality, if Hyundai
    can hold its own (as I believe it surely will, given recent progresses), It will become
    a real competitor because of its price and warranty advantages.

    I would not be surprised if Sonata ends up defining the segment by the end of this
    decade. (That's quite different from saying Sonata will be number one in this
    segment, too. Sonata sales overtaking any of Altima/Accord/Camry will still be the
    biggest story in this segment.) We'll see how the Sonata sales go since the production finally is in full swing.
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    about what we are talking about. (although it kinda contradicts my post)
    I think it just came out.
    http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05218/549615.stm

    "Buyers do not consider Hyundais desirable and prestigious, images that Hyundai officials say is the key to success from here on out.
    "We've got to make it a car that you want to buy, not one that you have to take,""
    -> the cold truth from the mouth of a Hyundai official

    This is why I like the company. They seem to be very frank about their problems
    and want to work hard and listen to customers. :shades:
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Size ways perhaps. Reliability is a definite NO. The Nissan Altima is closer to the lesser Hyundai and Kia in reliability than the reliable Camry and not-quite-so reliable Accord. :cry:
  • truethattruethat Posts: 123
    Says who? As ctalk keeps saying, the new Sonata's reliability is definitely
    unknown. Heck, we don't even know the long-term reliability of '04 sonatas.

    BUT, we can make an educated guess based on certain statistics (if nothing
    else, for the sake of this arguement).
    It is statistically true that long term dependability correlates to initial quality.
    The following article is a good reading about Hyundai's improving quality.
    Hyundai Sonata is Tops in Consumer Reports Reliability Survey

    For the last few months, JD Power has gone out of their way to point out the
    improvements Hyundai has been making. No one will be surprised if '04 Sonata
    does well in dependability survey next year because '04 Sonata did so well in IQS.
    It will be more surprising if VDS suddenly drops or stays at the level before the
    IQS improvements. In many people's minds, the question is how much, not if.

    Remember, '04 Sonata came out #1 in IQS. '05 Sonata came out #2. It is highly
    likely that Sonta will do just as well as (or even better than) Camcord in next
    year's VDS and the one after that.

    There are objective indications that Hyundai will do well, I have not seen any
    objective indication to the contrary. Some people here tend to use whatever
    their previous experiences (or even worse, things they heard) to assume that
    Hyundai will do worse than Toyota or Honda. And I believe that's a mistake.

    For now, though, I will wait and see.
  • nornenorne Posts: 136
    Honda and Toyo as a status symbol? Yeah right. I'm sure you know quite a few people who thinks toy/honda are status symbols. ;)
This discussion has been closed.