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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The new Sonatas are every bit as good as the Accord.

    No, they are not. You have your opinion, and I have mine.
  • booyahcramerbooyahcramer Posts: 172
    There also seems to be far too many pro-Hyundaiers on this thread when the desire for a Hyundai in the 'real non-Edmunds' world is a fraction of what those here want to make it appear to be........
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    To be fair, please elaborate with your own observations. State your case, instead of a blantant rejection ("No, they are not [/end]" ) of what the other poster had to say - post some substance to form your opinion. By the same token you have your opinions, everyone else is also entitled to his/her opinions, which I would agree with. However, posts like "No, they are not [/end]" - this doesn't exactly sound like accepting other's opinion. Now, isn't it? Due us all a favor and go drive some competitions before posting igorance/hate/bash everywhere.

    Anyway, in my opinion, I feel the gap is closing and is very small now between the leaders and the challengers; especially in the midsize category. I don't think there is such a thing anymore as one car being more superior than another; every model is ver competitive now. Car A might have an edge in one area; while car B is better in another area. Bottom line, all great cars, and consumers cannot go wrong with any model they choose.
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    Technically, an opinion doesn't make one car a better one than another. Unless there is some sort of data to prove a benefit or an element of the car proven to be worse than another car, it is all just personal preference, perception, and a whole lot of guessing. I think the Sonata supporter would agree the Accord supporter has an auto with a good track record. Now the Accord supporter must realize IF the Sonata is reliable, and is similar to the Accord is most every respect as time goes by, then it too is as good. There is no way of telling. The engine is new, the car is new, the plant is new, and well you get the point. Hyundai is saying here is a car at a low price, with stuff like ESC with a long warranty. What more can they do? While you can not with any certainty say that they are the same as an Accord, there is NO way to prove they are not.

    Now there are a half dozen other good choices in sedans, no doubt. Each has something a little different, or better to offer. Lots of things are just subjective. And your neighbor may be just as happy with his or her new LaCrosse and you are with your new Kia, or Jetta--- it really doesn't matter, as it is all opinion.

    When it comes to facts, it matter only as much as you value those elements of the buying decision. I do it myself, and should know better. Telling people one car is so much better for them, when there are to many different things going on in their mind as to what they desire and need in a car to ever come with up any certainty that I know the best car for them is impossible. I can give them my OPINION of what I would buy based on how I see the car(s) in question, and that's about it.
    -Loren
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I feel the gap is closing and is very small now between the leaders and the challengers; especially in the midsize category. I don't think there is such a thing anymore as one car being more superior than another; every model is ver competitive now. Car A might have an edge in one area; while car B is better in another area. Bottom line, all great cars, and consumers cannot go wrong with any model they choose.

    I couldn't agree more, and I think most reasonable people could agree. It makes it a little difficult to chat about cars here when someone says they prefer brand "A", the others think "They hate brand B". Well, that's not true in most cases. I think 97% of the posters here like something about all the midsize cars. The other 3 like only their favorite brand, and all others are called "junk" or similar. Another big problem is that some people made up their mind years ago that they hate a certain make, and even if it would magically become perfect, they would not change their mind. It's their loss. People that consider all makes are the only winners. I would be 95% happy with any of them.
  • beantownbeantown Posts: 227
    One way I would use to measure the cars themselves is the following:

    Take all these midsize cars and line them up. Offer them at the same price to the world. Now look at the sales numbers.

    How many people who would have bought a Camry and Accord before this would now switch to a Hyundai or Kia? Zero, because they would've been able to get one for less money before this leveling of the playing field.

    How many people who would have bought a Hyundai or Kia before this would now switch to a Toyota or Honda? Some number greater than zero (most likely each and every person who bought one because they wanted a midsize car but couldn't afford the Camry or Accord).
  • honda homers need to stop thinkin that the accord is unbeatable. you can say accord is a better car, but not by much. i like sonata because of the exterior looks, cabin quietness & roominess, and the 10 warranty.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    It is not just a measure of the cars, but of other factors such as brand equity/loyalty, long-term reliability considerations (and misconceptions), and perceptions vs. reality.

    I think a better measurement would be to have people do "blindfolded" test drives of the mid-sized cars, i.e. with identities/brands masked. That may not be practical, but it would allow people to rate the cars without preconceptions getting in the way.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    accept that the Sonata isn't up to the benchmark set by the CamCords?

    Is Sonata a decent midsize sedan? YES
    Is Sonata a biggest bang for the buck in this segment? Highly Likely
    Is Sonata the best car in this segment? NO IMO

    It took Accord/Camry 20 years and series of successful models to establish its reputation and they deserve every bit of it. Now with only 1 successful model and you put Sonata in the same league as the CamCords that is just totally rediculous. Is it possible that we are seeing history repeating itself with the Sonata? Very likely. But we won't know it until Hyundai proved itself again and again like the Toyota/Honda did back in the 80s and 90s.

    You bought the Sonata because its cheaper and it serves you same purpose as the other midsize sedans so you think you got the best deal and good for you. But whatever you do please do not pretend you just got a cheaper CamCord because you didn't. In order to be in the same league as the Accord/Camry the Sonata needs to do EVERYTHING as good not just SOMETHING. Also, CamCords didn't establish the benchmark by doing everything as good as the domestics, they did everything BETTER, period. Until Hyundai can come up with a Sonata that performs better than CamCords in many areas they will always be just another midsize sedan whom is trying to chase down 2 very fast moving targets.

    I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:

    front end: last generation Honda Accord
    Roof: Audi A4
    Rear end: current generation Honda Accord (before the 06' modification)

    Before they can come up with their own design, they won't earn my respect at all.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    In order to be in the same league as the Accord/Camry the Sonata needs to do EVERYTHING as good not just SOMETHING.

    Sonata owner here. I generally agree, but there are some things the Sonata does better than the Accord & Camry. The engine felt smoother and quieter, the ride was smoother, and the accelrator felt more positive than both, and the body fit and paint was a tad better on the ones I looked at. I actually liked the handling better on the Camry, but the Accord was a bit better than both. There are quite a few things about the A&C that are better than the Sonata, but only slightly... certainly not deal killers.

    I also think that although the current Sonata is decent, the exterior design is a total rip-off of many other cars:

    You can say the same thing about every current car in the world. These little midsized cars are so well defined by interior, exterior, suspension, safety, etc. there is only so much wiggle room for styling. It's all been done before on every car made since 1960. And believe me, no car maker wants to copy another. Designs are locked in 2-3 years before release, and kept secret. All the makers rule out "radical" designs right up front, so that narrows styling down even further. This makes occasional coincidences inevitable, and dreaded by the manufacturers.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    As noted, the Sonata does some things better than the Camcord. Does that mean the Camcords are not in the same league as the Sonata? Of course not. Being in the same league doesn't mean that one car has to do EVERYTHING as well as another car. Overall, it has to be competitive. The '06 Sonata is competitive with the best in class, at a much lower price. That is what makes the Sonata compelling--not that it does everything as well as or better than an Accord or Camry.

    BTW, since Honda copied the rear end of the current generation Accord (before the '06 modification) from Buick, does that decrease your respect for Honda at all? ;)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    can we talk about something else beside the Sonata (and it's merits versus the Camcords)

    The car is COMPETITIVE..without a doubt...and we all should be glad that we have so many different choices. For example, the Sonata nor the Accord particularlly thrill me, but I find both to be respectable sedans in this class, along with the Camry, Altima and Mazda6.

    How about the fact that pricing for the Aura has been announced (check out Saturn.com) and the fact that we have other cars in this class like the Fusion and Milan and others.

    Sometimes I think we should rename this forum Accord vs. Camry vs. Sonata because that's all we basically hear about in this forum and it has become oh so boring...I miss the early days of Edmunds.com.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    If you or anyone else wants to refocus the topic, I'm sure there are many of us who would be most grateful! :D
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    If you have read my post I said that Sonata is a very decent midsize sedan but it's just not in the same league as the CamCord. Why? Because this is only its first successful model. In order to be the same league it'll need to prove itself year after year like the CamCord did back in the 80's and 90's.

    As for the new Accord's rear end I personally don't think it's a copy from Buick. But if you insist, that's fine by me. It won't decrease my respect for Honda because it already proved itself with the 4th gen, 5th gen and the 6th gen. I am pretty sure Honda didn't copy from anybody to come up with those designs (same goes for the Camry).
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    Sometimes I think we should rename this forum Accord vs. Camry vs. Sonata because that's all we basically hear about in this forum

    It's because Accord, Camry and Sonata are currently the most popular midsize sedans on the market. Since this is a midsize sedan forum, I am not surprised to see the most popular cars in this segment being discussed the most.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    This may be true..but the Altima outsells the Sonata..and we hear basically NOTHING about those cars.

    The best selling sedans in this class are the Camry, Accord, Impala, Altima then Sonata thus far this year.

    The Malibu and Impala are big sellers, and the Fusion is selling well also, but we hear nothing, nada about them in this forum compared to the Camcordnata.

    The Sonata could eventually outsell the Altima (this year anyway) but then with the next generation Altima will probably continue to outsell the Sonata based on the fact that it will be new.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,564
    Well, maxamillion, good luck, but you are fighting a losing battle. This discussion always reverts back to Sonata vs Camcords, no matter that Fusion/Milan, Altima, and possibly Saturn Aura are valid contenders.

    Truth is few of those who post here seem willing to admit that the competition is so close these days, any one of the top 5 or 6 brands in this class is a very good vehicle, and most of those who post for or against any one of them generally are exagerrating past and present reliability perceptions.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Posts: 1,467
    A bit of history on the Accord I guess...
    The Accord proved itself back in the late 1980's when it became the best selling car in America (aka the 3rd generation). The 1986 Accords (with those flip up lights) were the benchmark cars of their class during those years and paved the way for the 4th generation (1990-92) that also sold in record numbers. While the 3rd was a good benchmark, the 4th generation went on to higher heights and really propelled the Accord in its class. Competition from Ford and Toyota ended the 4th gens reign as the best selling car in America. The 5th generation was actually considered a step back by many magazines and consumers because of its small size relative to the Camry and Taurus and in the beginning a lack of V6 power. The V6 came in 95 though.

    Honda had a wild idea that folks would move to smaller sedans, but the attempt failed, and the 5th generation was a bit of a setback for Honda, that's why the 6th was so major for a while. The 6th generation was seen as moving back in the right direction because of the proper (at the time) 3.0V6 and roomy (for the time) interior dimensions.

    My favorite generation of Accords have been the 4th and 6th generations. So the Accord basically established itself at the 2nd generation model, which my parents owned (a 1984 and 85 model) and Accords were considered good cars back then(not so sure about the 1st generation) but it was the third that gave the Accord its benchmark standards. Rarely has the car ever been rated any less than benchmark standards since this time even during the low selling times of the 5th generation.

    Will the Sonata have similar success? I most definitely think it will.

    I'm sure Alpha (who knows a great deal about Toyota's products) can give a brief history on the Accord if he feels so inclined.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Why don't you give us some food for thought on the vehicles you see as major contenders to the two or three dominant ones in this conversation?
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    "Take all these midsize cars and line them up. Offer them at the same price to the world. Now look at the sales numbers."

    I would not exactly speculate since we all know this will never happen.

    "How many people who would have bought a Camry and Accord before this would now switch to a Hyundai or Kia? Zero, because they would've been able to get one for less money before this leveling of the playing field.

    How many people who would have bought a Hyundai or Kia before this would now switch to a Toyota or Honda? Some number greater than zero (most likely each and every person who bought one because they wanted a midsize car but couldn't afford the Camry or Accord)."

    Very much an incorrect assessment, especially the 1st quoted paragrah. Keep in mind, Camrys and Accords are no longer superior than their compeitions. As mentioned previously, every car is more than competitive and each with own merits.
This discussion has been closed.