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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • newcar31newcar31 Posts: 3,711
    I don't know how you'd do that with an automatic. Besides, who cares? Both of them are pretty darn quick for family sedans.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    According to another website, the 2006 Accord will get a 10hp increase for both engines.
    170hp 2.4 / 250hp 3.0
  • cosmocosmo Posts: 203
    How about replacing the Passat and Sonata with the Legacy and Galant in this discussion? Just rename it the Midsize Domestic Sedans Comparison Thread.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    Why replace the Sonata :confuse:
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    2006 Hyundai Sonata Manufacturer Suggested Retail Pricing:

    Sonata GL 4-cyl, 5-speed manual $17,895
    Sonata GL 4-cyl, 4-speed SHIFTRONIC A/T $18,795
    Sonata GLS 4-cyl, 4-speed SHIFTRONIC A/T $19,395
    Sonata GLS 3.3-liter V6, 5-speed SHIFTRONIC A/T $20,895
    Sonata LX 3.3-liter V6, 5-speed SHIFTRONIC A/T $22,895

    Destination charge (not included in above): $600

    Options:

    Sunroof: $850

    Sonata GLS (2.4L 4-cylinder engine): Premium Package: Power sunroof; 8-way power driver seat; auto-dimming inside mirror with integrated HomeLink® Universal Transceiver and digital compass - $1,350

    Sonata GLS (3.3L V6 engine): Premium Sport Package: 17-inch aluminum-alloy wheels with 225/50R17 Michelin® tires; power sunroof; 8-way power driver seat; auto-dimming inside mirror with integrated HomeLink® Universal Transceiver and digital compass - $1,500

    Sonata LX: Sunroof & Audio Package: Power sunroof; premium AM/FM audio system with MP3-compatible in-dash 6-disc CD changer and 6 speakers plus subwoofer and external amplifier - $1,400
  • And also why replace the Passat........plus, if you are going to add the Legacy and the Galant in with the Accord, Altima, et al, why are you going to call it "Midsized Domestic Sedans Comparison"?

    I have an '05 Passat GLS TDI, it replaced an '02 Galant ESV6. I love the Passat, it rides great, handles pretty darn good and the fuel mileage rocks (now averaging 37mpg in mixed driving). And, yes, alpha there is more to performance than acceleration and 0-60 times. The Passat might only have 134HP, but 247TQ helps it get out into traffic with ease and it really shines at 30-60mph. Besides, I don't drag race this car.......I drive my family around in it. For me, performance means getting the maximum mileage out of each tank of fuel....and handle good while doing so.

    I can't say I miss the Galant too much, the Passat is a much nicer car than the Galant was (and I chose the Passat over an Accord-Hybrid). There is my $0.02

    So really it just depends on what it is that everyone is looking for in a car......we can debate this 'til the cows come home and still not get anywhere..... :)

    -PR-

    03 Ford F350 SuperCrew KingRanch 6.0L Powerstroke
    04 VW Jetta GLS TDI
    05 VW Passat GLS TDI
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    why do i get the feeling you are a diesel fanatic. :P
  • What's a diesel? ;)

    Okay, I guess I'm busted....I guess you can consider me a diesel fanatic :blush:
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Well nothing wrong with that. Honda and Toyota does offer diesel engine for the European market. The Euro Accord with the 2.2L diesel engine have gotten rave reviews. But for some reason the North American market doesn't seem very receptive to diesel technology even though today's diesel engines are vastly superior to what we had 15 years ago.
  • big_guybig_guy Posts: 372
    The lack of diesel powered vehicles here in the states is more to do with the dirty diesel fuel here in the states than it is with people not being receptive. The emissions controls that are required on diesel cars here in the US make it difficult to successfully market them here. The feds have implemented a law that is supposed to clean up the diesel fuel but big oil is so entrenched in Washington politics that I am not confident that the required changes will make it into production of cleaner diesel fuels. :cry:
  • fitguyfitguy Posts: 222
    Diesels are and have been huge in Europe for years, and VW does make a darn good diesel motor. If it had been available in the Passat in 2000, I would have bought one (which means I might well still be driving it today); instead I got the miserable 1.8T! :lemon:
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    The Sonata GLS V6 looks like a bargain if they can keep the MSRP below 21K. The new Sonata could really give the Camry and Accord a run for their money.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    The Sonata GLS V6 has an MSRP of $21,495 including destination charge. As a comparison point, a Camry LE 4 cylinder having most of the features of the Sonata, except three biggies- the V6 engine, the stability control, and the 16 inch alloys.... stickers for $21,501 (thats a Camry LE 4 cylinder+floormats+side curtain airbags+5A, a very common set-up here in Toyota's greater NY region).

    ~alpha
  • fitguyfitguy Posts: 222
    Hundai's have come a long way, but MSRP & features are only half the story- unless one drives their car into the ground (many years & miles), you still take a bath on the resale value. Not because they are bad cars, but the perception still exists, especially at the auction houses. Check any used car listings for 4 yr. old Hundai's, they drop like a rocket.
    Time may change that perception, but right now for the average buyer thats trades every 3-4 years, Hundai is not a serious contender all things considered.
  • spinzerospinzero Posts: 91
    True. But if Hyundai earns a good perception, do you think they will still offer their cars for thousands less than the competitors? They will have no reason to.

    I don't think Hyundai was such a bargain until few years ago, you pretty much got what you paid for. And if everything works out for Hyundai, then they'll become just like Honda/Toyota and again you'll get what you pay for.

    As their quality improves and yet their reputation lags behind, that's when you get a bargain. True, resale will still suffer, but like you said yourself if you keep your car for 6~7 years, the difference won't be that huge anyway. Therefore I think Hyundai will offer a great chance to beat the market for informed shoppers for at least few more years.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    would be today if they had never shipped the Excel to these shores ?
  • motownusamotownusa Posts: 836
    Hyuandai also has 10/100K powertrain warranty unlike the competition. I look at resale value like this; you buy a car that suits your needs and not what the resale value is 4-5 years down the road. Remember, Honda and Toyotas higher resale value is somewhat negated by their higher MSRP to begin with. So I think if you compare Hyuandai's lower MSRP to Toy/Hondas higher resale value I think you break about even, don't you? And, if you keep the car longer than 5 years ( i typically keep my cars for at least 8) the difference in resale value would be even less of a factor. If people's perception of Hyuandai steadily improves as their quality improves resale value should go up also.
  • brozhnikbrozhnik Posts: 172
    The problem with the Hyundai Sonata, IMO, is safety. If someone creams your Sonata, you're toast. You'll have a much better chance of walking away if you're in a Passat, Accord, or new Camry or Jetta.

    I base that on the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, a non-profit whose crash tests are considered the most accurate around. They give four rankings for crash tests: Poor, Marginal, Acceptable, and Good. The Camry, Accord, and Passat are all "Good' in both front and side collisions; the Sonata is merely "Acceptable" for front collisions and is "Poor" for side collisions. (The Camry, btw, has improved- it wasn't so good from the side until 2004, according to the Institute--then Toyota beefed it up.) You can see much of this for yourself at:

    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summaries/midinexp_overall_c.htm

    Then there are the features. According to a lot of researchers, two safety features make a big difference: head-curtain airbags (which reduce fatalities and serious injuries by 45%) and electronic skid control (studies not only by VW and Toyota but by the independent National Advanced Driving Simulator found that this reduces the likelihood of your getting into an accident by more than 30%). These features are standard on the Passat and new Jetta; they are available as options on the Camry and Corolla. Accord offers the head-curtain bags, and will make stability control standard starting in 2006. But the Hyundai? Neither is available at any level so far.

    As for real-world performance, the latest study is only through 2002. The VW Passat was way out ahead back then:

    http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summaries/midinexp_overall_c.htm

    But since then, the Accord has had a major redesign that improved its crashworthiness greatly, and the Camry has improved a lot too. Hyundai - as far as I know, no progress yet.

    How important is safety is to you? --that's a personal choice. But if safety does matter to you, the Sonata has a problem. I realize that a redesign is coming next year and I wouldn't be surprised if it's improved in the safety department. But not yet.
  • bklynguybklynguy Posts: 275
    How important is safety is to you? --that's a personal choice. But if safety does matter to you, the Sonata has a problem. I realize that a redesign is coming next year and I wouldn't be surprised if it's improved in the safety department. But not yet.

    The 2006 Hyundai Sonata is coming next month, not next year and it will offer stability control as well as six airbags standard. It should do better than the current model in the IIHS tests. I'm sure Honda and Toyota will follow Hyundai's lead by making these safety features standard on the Accord & Camry.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,623
    Honda has already announced that side bags and curtains and ABS will be standards across all models in the U.S. by the end of 2006, but did not include ESC in that list. The Accord has standard SABs and SACs (and ABS) now.
This discussion has been closed.