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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
    isn't that a honda only engine series? they get at least 10k fans per race. too bad they won't adapt that v8 tech into something a mid size sedan owner could drive. (?RL?) ;)
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Check the definition of "value." Value does include "quality."

    You definitely have a point, and I stand corrected. However, my definition of "Value", and your definition, can be totally different.

    The guy who owns a Rolls Royce, is not going to trade it in on an Accord. And the guy who owns an Accord will probably not trade it in on a Sonata either. We all have different definitions.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    I was talking about the dictionary definition, not a personal definition.

    People do move from Accord to Sonata and vice versa. It's just a reflection of value they are seeking at the time of purchase.

    Want best car, features and warranty for the money, buy a Sonata. Want best track record of reliability, buy a Camcord. But the track record of reliability is narrowing with each passing model year.

    If Hyundai's reliability holds, at some time the length of reliability will be come irrelevant. 10 years for Hyundai vs 30 for camcord Or 15 for Hyundai vs 35 camcord. At some point the number of years becomes moot as long as the "lower" reliability term has a long term record.

    I'm not saying Hyundai is there yet. However, based on Hyundai's quality of the last 6 or 7 years, in a few years we can easily be discussing Hyundai's 10 year record of building reliable cars.
  • It's not the short term impact on the engine that I'm worried about (6 years). It's the 10 years and beyond. :confuse:
  • Want best track record of reliability, buy a Camcord. But the track record of reliability is narrowing with each passing model year.

    There's a difference in quality as well (interior mainly). I think Hyundai has figured out (for the most part, best I can tell) the reliability part.

    However, I felt the interior of the Accord seemed more expensive than the sticker price, while the Sonata was simply "up to par" in my opinion. My main focus when car shopping was to find the best interior for the money, with economy, reliability, and size close behind. The Sonata was simply not as sharp looking inside as the Accord was.

    To put it simply, the Accord impressed/wowed me, where the Sonata made no real impression at all.

    image

    Not bad, but I feel like this looks much nicer:
    image

    Obviously, I didn't choose top models when looking for pics to post, since the most expensive Accord is MUCH more expensive than the most expensive Sonata.
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Posts: 245
    I bought LX last Nov. Put 13,000 miles so far. Has no major mechanical problem yet ,other than outside temperature sensor has to be replaced next Monday ( Mechanic told me it will takes 30 minutes). I have tiny rattle from center console on a cold day, same section of the HWY where I heard rattle in my friend's brand new Lexus too.

    Love smooth powerful engine and solid handling. Here are short movies that people show off their V6 Sonatas.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL1QJqOpiyo

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPP6-KvMLlw

    ECS and Traction controls with no extra charges. You have to see ECS & Traction control test on snow @ www.youtube.com's Top Gear ICE test. Those are true life saving features. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG3cOEW53ag

    In portland, OR, You can get V6 top LX for $18,500. The price that you can't even buy Accord LX with 4 cylinders ,or Camry LE.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Besides, I find all these arguments about a few percentage points of torque or horsepower or EPA mileage differences of generally 1-3 MPG all a bit stupid. Almost all "normal" drivers who have driven any midsized car with a 200 HP or more engine would likely be hard pressed to require much more. Just try running your Honda Accord to redline every time you accelerate to get into the range of utilizing that 244 HP and see what kind of mileage you will actually obtain.

    In my experience you can drive a Honda hard and fast and only suffer minor gas mileage setbacks, in the neighborhood of 10 to 20%. In domestics, my experience tells me that flooring it everywhere you go will get you about a 50% decrease in mileage. I'd take the Honda anyday in a 300 mile straight line drag race! The Honda will make it, the Ford will run out of gas.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    Well, you can state this opinion all you want. but there is no verifiable proof.

    I listed test comparisons Edmunds did under I would assume are controlled identical conditions, and their tests showed both V-6 Fusion and V-6 Accord to have nearly identical abilities in the 0-60 range and 1/4 mile, and with the Fusion showing better observed mileage. I would assume Edmunds has some sort of fairly controlled drive cycle for their tests, so I would tend to believe their data than just some idle speculation about whose car gets better mileage under extreme driving conditions.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    My old Accord is a 97' which is probably built in 96 so it's officially a 10-year-old car now.
  • Do you have any issues with the car like oil burning, loud engine noise, rough idle, low gas mileage? Thanks.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I think all, except the fusion, are ridiculous, in that they go up to at least 140 mph and the most ridiculous are the Accord and Altima with 160 mph on the gauge. What is the point of this sort of foolishness?

    I assume all those cars will nearly peg their speedometers, so it's not foolishness.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    No problem with the oil. I do oil change every 3000 miles. Like I said, no problem with either the tranny and engine. Since my old Accord was a 4 cylinder the engine loves to rev so it is somewhat loud at 1st and 2nd gear (that's if you compare it to a Toyota). However, the engine is smoothly quite at cruising speed as well as at idle. By the end of my ownership (April this year) I averaged about 23 MPG with combined city and highway driving (about 50-50). Given that it's a 10-year-old car I don't think that's too shabby at all.

    Hope this helps.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    I assume all those cars will nearly peg their speedometers, so it's not foolishness.

    They are probably limited to 130 mph or something like that. I know my wife's Jetta has a 160 mph speedometer, but my understanding is the car is limited to 128 mph. In any case, I don't think anyone with any sense is going to be exceeding 120 mph in any of these cars.

    The new trend toward 160 mph speedometers is as dumb (or perhaps dumber) as when they were putting in 85 mph speedometers.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    I agree, but when one is spending his/her own individual money, you try to get the most bang for your buck. I think that why many choose the Sonata, although I agree the Accord's interior is very nice.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The new trend toward 160 mph speedometers is as dumb

    Why is it dumb when the some of the cars come with 160-mph speedometers are limited at 140+ mph?
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    160 MPH gauges are dumb because these are family sedans, most of which will be driven by sane people, and going those speeds, even if the vehicle is capable of it, on public roads is not sane.

    Maximum speedometer markings of 160MPH are indeed stupid and do nothing but compress the spacing of the gage so that there is less resolution in the gage.

    My guess is this was all marketing department driven. The manufacturer might get a naive customer or two who are actually impressed by a gage that goes that high, even though the car will spend 99% of its time at 75 MPH or less. Do they put that gage on the 4 cylinder versions as well? Even more stupid.
  • lweisslweiss Posts: 342
    About 10 years ago, I had a Dodge rental car (forgot the model, but it was a forgettable car) and was driving in the Mojave Desert in California one evening- very late, deserted and straight road- and I felt like seeing what the car could do- well the digital speedometer (popular in the '80's and early '90's) kept up until 85 Mph then just started flashing (wouldn't go above 85 I don't think). I was wondering if that is where the speedometer stopped or if the rental car had some sort of speed limiter on it to prevent such irresponsible behavior. I do know that many rental cars (especially in Europe) have a special glass seal around the speedometer/odometer cable hookup to the engine so that you can't just disconnect it and not run up the miles
  • Sorry, miscalculation. Gas is $2.43 here in south miami, for regular, 87 octane! it fell $.50 over the week and $.10 overnight. Our gas is higher since they have to send it so far. Traveling 80mph, it takes 10hours to reach the florida line from where I live. Premium is $2.50, Diesel is $2.47.

    Heres looking forward to us seeing $1.90 gas!!!
    -Cj :D
  • Yeah, I'll take the bet. Word on the radio today that somewhere in the country the price of regular unleaded was selling for $1.86. Here the price is down to $2.30. I see your bet and raise you one hybrid...
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Maximum speedometer markings of 160MPH are indeed stupid and do nothing but compress the spacing of the gage so that there is less resolution in the gage.

    Take a look at the pictures of the dashes on the last couple of pages. Which one is easier to read? The 160mph speedo on the Accord, or the Tiny 120mph speedo on the Fusion. You can easily read the Accord speedo from the back seat, so what's the big deal? Just because the speedo goes up to 160mph, that doesn't mean you have to go that fast. Can't you think of something more important to gripe about?
  • BTW, how much beating does an engine (particularly the Accord) take when revved to 4 or 5K RPM? I'm always worried about this on the back of my mind.
    I wouldn't worry about Honda revved engines. Honda developed engine technology on motorcycles. It is not unusual for Honda in line or V4 bike engines to red line at 10 grand or above and no damage. Their years of racing technology easily makes them the most technologically advanced engine maker on the planet. Bar none.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
    back in 1989 you get a ford taurus with a 3.0 liter engine built by yamaha that redlined at 7200.
    without the limiting accessories, it was supposedly good for 11k rpms.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The Honda S2000 2.0 4cyl. redlines at 8900 rpm. That's racing technology.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,931
  • Just think how much easier a 120 mph speedo would be to read if the 160mph version is easy to read. Unfortunately my Odyssey speedo is not easy to read. The top of the speedo is blocked by the steering wheel. This is the only car I ever drove with a blocked speedo.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "I feel this guy shopped for value, over quality. Or, maybe he had a spending limit (less options), which is ok, if value is your #1 priority."

    Keyword is "I" in this statement. Ever thought for just a minute maybe, just maybe Honda/Toyota have lost touch with value? and maybe, just maybe consumers are starting to really ask if the extra $3-4,000 dollar premium for a like optioned Toyota/Honda are REALLY worth it? Hmm... just think out of the box.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    This constant excuse of why people choose the Sonata over the Accord is purely for price is just that an EXCUSE! Ever thought those people may have thought the Sonata was a better value and quality for the money. Maybe they couldn't see the reason to spend and extra $3-4K upfront for what?? just to own a Honda? or Camry? Times is short for those who spout off about reliability "Legends" of the Accord/Camry. Reliability is fastly becoming a non-factor in buying about any brand of vehicle. What then for Honda/Toyota? They will have some explaining to do as to why they keep thier prices so high.. Consumers will find out its just a matter of time...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "They will have some explaining to do as to why they keep thier prices so high.."

    Seriously, the great thing about capitalism is one doesn't have to explain why they bought a over b. Honda and Toyota prices are not coming down. Hyundais' prices have only one direction to go in.

    Honda and Toyota sure have us buffaloed into thinking they have a better product at a higher price, silly them, in reality they have an overpriced lackluster product and the buying public is too stupid to notice.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Just think how much easier a 120 mph speedo would be to read if the 160mph version is easy to read.

    What size numbers do you need? Are you half blind? Do you need 2" numbers?

    Unfortunately my Odyssey speedo is not easy to read. The top of the speedo is blocked by the steering wheel. This is the only car I ever drove with a blocked speedo.

    Isn't the steering wheel adjustable? Maybe you have the steering wheel too low for your height.

    in 1989?

    What year are we in now? And what accessories are "rpm limiting"?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I am one of those consumers who over the years have purchased "Domestic" automobiles. Ford Escort, 98,000 miles, no issues, Ford Ranger 108,000 miles, no issues, Ford Escape 75,000 miles, no issues. What about my reliabiliy record? These all cannot have been a "Fluke"? I am one who cannot see my spending the extra $3-4K or more for what I see as a perceived reliability advantage. In fact the wife and I booked a trip to Maui! Yep, I spent the money I could have spend in buying a Honda/Toyota on a great vacation.. :P
This discussion has been closed.