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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread
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Comments
Or is it possible that there were better products available to the consumer at a lower price?
Other than the Union Contracts/cradle to grave benfits strangeling these great companies, do you think product quality may have had something to do with resale & reputation. Or, do you think incentives are the sole reason?
Don't you every buy anything on sale? If a department store normally sells a jacket for $120 and there is a sale on jackets for $85 do you wait for the sale to be over so you can pay full list price, thereby increasing the value of your jacket???
Or is it possible that there were better products available to the consumer at a lower price?
I personally think the better products are definitely available. The problem with Ford and GM is that instead of making better products, they just lowered prices to compensate for mediocrity.
As far as the jacket reference goes, it almost works, except you fail to mention that Ford's "jackets" have had numerous quality problems over the years, and I mean more than a stuck zipper.
Honda and Toyota jackets on the other hand, while not necessarily the latest style, always keep their owners warm, and usually, you can't get their owners out of the jacket, even after many years.
Accord: 25,285 - 24,222
Camry: 25,271 - 31,183
Altima: 20,080 - 19,044
Sonata: 13,741 - 9,762
Fusion: 9,143 - 0
Passat: 4,084 - 2,247
Camry: 27,354 - 31,874
I was reading the
* NORTH AMERICAN BUILT VEHICLES
Mazda is 40% owned by Ford and probably will be using Ford Engines for the next 20 years. I have a 2002 Ford Escape with the Duratec V6 and it is a hot engoine thatb has given me 60,000 miles of perfect engine service. The only thing crappy about the V6 is that it is so much fun to overdrive them.
By any chance are you related to oldjoe or maybe a new psuedonym for oldjoe? :confuse: I looked at some of your posts and you seem to have oldjoe's fanatical devotion to Honda and disdain for anything Hyundai. seniorjose = oldjoe? Coincidence? Who knows. :confuse:
But, you're right; it's the same style of broad brush slur. If one doesn't already own a Hyundai, there goes $1K of that $3K rebate. If one doesn't finance thru HMFC, there goes another $1K rebate. And if one buys a 4 cyl, that $1K rebate is reduced to $500.
So, seniorjose = oldjoe; yep. Could $3K = $500; yep. :surprise:
Accord GOOD GOOD POOR
Camry GOOD GOOD Marginal
Sonata GOOD Acceptable GOOD
Ford Fusion did not do well.
Now, standards are higher. It isn't that the Fusion is more dangerous, it's that the others are that much better!
We'll see how this changes the result. Acceptable, however, in the Frontal Test.... is unacceptable in my book, given that the 1995 Ford Taurus was one of the first vehicles to receive a "Good". Get it together, Ford!
And regarding the Sonata, it WAS indeed as most of us suspected... the seat failed in the original test, garnering a Poor rating. Kudos to Hyundai for quickly recalling the 36,000 affected samples, and receiving the top ranking with the fix. Was hoping for a "Good" in the side test, though...
~alpha
The Fusion, OTOH, is an embarrassment to Ford. The standard side airbags and curtains are a good start (and long overdue), but they have to improve the frontal crash protection too.
True, but at least they didn't strike out!
Assuming the side curtains improve the score to 'Good', between the two, it would then be the choice between an excellent performer in the frontal test coupled with a satsifactory permormance in the side (Sonata), or vice versa (Fusion).
I'd like to see Toyota to get the new Camry tested soon. Toyota's designs have been doing well in the side impact lately, and the Lexus IS garnered a side structure rating of 'Good', the company's first for a sedan. However, Toyota seems not to have paid enough attention to head restraint design, which is troubling.
~alpha
In any case, I think both of them are unacceptable to me if they can't get a "good" rating on front and side test.
Keeping that thought in mind, check out these results for mid-size moderately priced cars from the IIHS web site.
IIHS Mid-size Results
You may have to eliminate a few other cars as well. Especially if they don't have side air bags.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/rating.aspx?id=572
Fusion was "acceptable" on that sub rating.
It had average scores.
Albeit, I was expecting more from Hyundai.
The Fusion's results are very disappointing. They should have realized that having standard side/curtain airbags is a must in this category.
Judging from the crash tests, Toyota and Honda seem to have safety right. With the new Civic's score, I have no doubt that Honda's new vehicles will score very well.
I'd say VW and Subaru are the ones who really "have safety right" in the moderate priced midsize category.
Nop, you read it correctly. Funny that the Accord's three year old design can get all "good" scores in both front and rear seats.
True, but its structure/safety cage rating was only marginal, same as the Sonata's.
~alpha
Re. Daewoo . . .
The Daewoo Magnus is a mid-sized sedan sold by GM Daewoo positioned to compete with the Hyundai Sonata. It is manufactured in South Korea for GM Daewoo Auto & Technology (GMDAT) by Daewoo Incheon Motor Company at its Bupyeong facility.
The previous-generation model was the Daewoo Leganza (model V100); it was produced from the 1997 to 2002 model years. The Leganza provided the basis for the current Daewoo Magnus (V200), which has been in production since the 2000 model year and was known as Evanda in Europe. Following the establishment of Chevrolet Europe, all Daewoos were rebranded Chevrolet in 2005.
The Evanda comes equipped with the Daewoo developed "XK6" inline-6 engine or a Holden-built 2.0L straight-four carried over from the Leganza. ItalDesign of Italy was resposible for the styling and design of both the Leganza and Magnus. However, the upcoming V250 was styled in Korea by GM Daewoo.
The Evanda is also badge-engineered as the Suzuki Verona in North America and Chevrolet Epica in other markets.
And, most importantly, I don't think you want the valve lifter problems inherent in most Verona's Inline 6 engine.
See you there!
My Honda comrade?
I think the senior citizens have a tough enough time buying foreign cars anyway. From what I've seen, if they finally take the plunge, its for a Toyota or Honda. Not the Hyundais.
I wouldn't be so sure. I'm noticing a lot of Sonata owners are senior's, and the Sonata is their first "Mom car".
Umm, like what? There are rebates and discounts on Accords where you live? Lucky you...My 2006 EX cost me $22,200 (off of $23,800), I haven't seen ANY finance deals or cash back from Honda lately, especially not since the accord was refreshed for 2006. I have seen lease deals for the CR-V though.
Your thoughts?
Discounts, yes--where I live, and where many others live. Check out the Accord Prices Paid discussion if you don't believe me.
I never said there were rebates on Accords. Please re-read my post.