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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread



  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    The RX-8 may be a midsize "sports sedan" in character, but not in interior space. I would call it a "GT" instead. A sedan - although not always - implies 4-doors, and some real interior room and storage space, something the RX-8 lacks.

    I wish Mazda would bring back the rotary in a sedan, a 21st century RX-2, RX-3, or RX-4 if you will. But, I understand the marketing positioning on the RX-8 given its price, and the rotary's fuel consumption differential.

    The rotary is a very sweet engine.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    in the local paper this weekend '07 accord vp/auto 20280 sale price 17,560.
    lx-se/auto msrp 22,970 sale price 20,280.
    sonata maybe?
  • cxccxc Posts: 122
    In addition, nobody is selling cars with a badge of Lexus in Japan. There, BMW is BMW; MB is MB. Nothing can replace them.
  • As for me, I’d stick with cheaper, more reliable and just as good cars from Honda, Toyota and Nissan.

    You're obviously not the customer BMW is looking for. They don't care about you. You can't appreciate the finer things in life. Sure a BMW 335 may not be worth $8K more than say a G35, but it still is an awesome car that many, many people want and desire. These people have the money - you don't. No need to spread your sour grapes all over this board.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Hey folks, we're not here to talk about BMWs of any flavor, nor Explorers, nor anything other than midsized sedans.

    There are other discussions which cover these interests. If any of you need any help finding what you need, just give me a holler.

    Your cooperation is appreciated.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    akirby, you will be pleased to read a review of the Edge in the Dec 06 C&D. It has, of course, the new 3.5 DT, this one at 265hp, 250 ft./lbs. And not word about harshness, reticence to rev or anything like the offhanded comment they make about the 3.0 it replaces. It is apparently even designed to handle direct injection (see 2GR-FSE) although it says the the reason that it is not there, is cost - the reason I have said that the engine has been so late in coming in the first place. All in all, a favorable review for an engine with physical specifications similar to the 270hp VQ in the Altima also reviewed mostly favorably in the same issue.
    Why the 'shame on you'? The article says that this engine is destined for the 2 Lincolns, the 500, the Edge, and the Freestyle!

    Why not the Fusion???

    Does this mean that folks that do want the extra power of a V6 in a midsize sedan are still stuck with the old 3.0? The 3.5 will likely help the 500 a bunch and apparently could take the Fusion into a dynamic territory now occupied by Accord/Camry/Altima and even Sonata V6s. Somebody needs to call Ford and find out if they really WANT to sell Fusions.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    since most camcords sold are 4 cylinder models, what is the rush to put the 3.5 in the fusion?
    the electronic nannies prevent use of the excess power anyway.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    End of Model Cycle is the key phrase here.

    Same thing happens to most carmakers at the end of a model cycle... the prices drop due to people waiting out the new model's release. Tell the truth, assuming you wanted car X would you pay the same price for the car 5 years after its release as you would the month it debuted? Probably not.

    I'd want to wait until the new, improved (usually anyway!) model came out and get that one, if the prices were the same.

    The same thing happened with the 2006 Camry right before the 2007 debuted; prices dropped.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Because they still need a top-end model that better competes with the top-end models from other companies.

    The 4-cylinder Fusion is about the same power as I-4 Accord, Sonata, Camry, it's all "caught up" in the power race on that front. But the Fusion has the least horsepower in its class (I think, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) in the top-end V6 models. It offers a great value, great handling, etc... but it is generally 15-50 horsepower behind its compeitors.

    I'm not ahuge advocate of the new Duratec, because frankly, the old one wasn't so hot IMO. I'll have to check out the new ones if they put the 3.5 in the Fusion.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    is there going to be a new '07 accord?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    No, 2008 will be a revamped Accord. 2007 Accord have been on lots for a couple of months now. Look for the 2008 Accord next September.

    Latest talk is that it will have the 3.2L from the TL, but that's just speculation.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    grad... 2.3, 3.0, 3.5 are all duratec engines. the 3.0 trades some smoothness for less maintenance.
    horsepower is not the answer to everything. back in '89 you could get a 3.0 in a taurus sedan that could outrun just about everything. it did cost more than a lot of people were willing to pay, though.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    Look for Honda to introduce a DOHC engine for the 08 Accord.
    The SOHCs have served them well, but times are a changing.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Is my 2.4L I-4 a SOHC (2006 EX Accord)? I thought I-4s were DOHC. The V6 is a Single Cam engine though, you're correct.

    My 2.2L in my 1996 I-4 Accord is a SOHC. Haha
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    horsepower is not the answer to everything. back in '89 you could get a 3.0 in a taurus sedan that could outrun just about everything. it did cost more than a lot of people were willing to pay, though.

    The Taurus was on top of the car market then, wasn't it? It was doing quite well when it was one of the powerful players...
    I'm not saying that is why they sold, it is just interesting to note the correlation. Just a thought...

    Horsepower isn't everything, but it is a lot to some people (not me, I got the I-4 model!). And this day in age when you can get a Toyota that delivers better fuel economy AND 47 more horsepower, Ford looks a little behind.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    for some, it's all about the looks, not the reality.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yep... most want 300 horsepower, but will never use it.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    don't know that Honda even needs DOHC -yet, the immediate future has already been here in form of the 3.5s in the TL type S and the RL at 286 and 300 hp respectively. Despite the SOHC, it is still a 24 valve head(s), and is continuously variable (VTEC) on the intake side. Honda, as usual, doesn't need any help building wonderful engines.
    Put out the 08 Accord, with the same 270hp as the Altima/Camry in that 3.5, and the smoothness that is typical of all Honda engines, the Accord will remain at the top of the heap. Besides, the current 3.2 is anything but a slouch, a little low on torque but that should be fixed with the displacement increase.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    if honda is running sohc, isn't that old tech? maybe is little less old tech than ohv? :)
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    "Now Ford needs to improve on this platform and not let it just die on the vine. Many improvements coming for 07 model year."

    Bingo. They can't let the Fusion go the way of the Focus.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    you funny man.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    you never drove a focus with a 2.3? it is good!
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    "That the BMW/Mercedes is lower on the reliability factor, yet people flock to these vehicles. These are purely an image/status vehicle in this country."

    There are many folks who get these cars becuase of status and image no doubt. That doesn't mean they're not wonderfully engineered vehicles. Perhaps not worth the extra money to many people but these are superior vehicles. You know I'm a big advocate for Hondas but my Audi is worth the extra money for what I want in a car. Please bear with me Pat.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Fine. Do you think it's keeping up with the Mazda 3 line up that includes the Mazdaspeed 3.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,930
    The article says that this engine is destined for the 2 Lincolns, the 500, the Edge, and the Freestyle!

    Why not the Fusion???

    It is destined for the Fusion (and Mustang), but not right away. The 500, Montego and Freestyle get it in April of next year along with a new front, rear and interior upgrade.

    They just don't have the production capacity yet to offer it in all vehicles. They might also wait until the 3.7L is available for Lincoln to keep the differentiation between the Fusion and the MKZ.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "There are many folks who get these cars becuase of status and image no doubt."

    Image and status are moving targets. A fully loaded Toyota Camry with all of the trimmings as a new car to someone that has previously driven used Elantras is a status symbol. There is no $ amount over which a car can be considered to have an image or status. Bottom line, image and status to some is plebianism to others.

    It's all based on where you started from.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    i'd like to have a mazda3 2.3 justifying the extra 7k is not so easy for me. mazdaspeed 3 is even more. call me a cheap yankee. ;)
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    Is a Rolls-Royce a status car? And does this car come standard with a chauffer?
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    $7k? Even if you assume one pays full retail for the Mazda 3.2 and one pays the discounted price for the comparable Focus you don't get close to $7k. Sounds like "Thee Math" from Carl Rove.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 10,991
    never heard of a mazda 3.2, what do you think a mazda3 2.3 would cost? i have a focus 2.3 zts, 5 speed, power moonroof, heated seats, abs, a bunch more. 14.2 otd.
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