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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • So the Taurus still has significant demand from the private sector? I work for a Ford dealership..and NOBODY...I mean NOBODY comes in and asks about the Taurus. Hell, most consumers thought the Taurus was gone after MY2005. It may very well be different in your area, but in Upstate, SC and the Mountains of NC, few consumers care about the Taurus anymore. We don't even get briefed on the Taurus anymore.

    Even the Fusion is a hard sell for us, we didn't move many of them until Ford had that 0 for 72 promo going on, which got rid of most of the 06's except the S models. 07s are sitting all over our lot. The Mustang, Focus and Five Hundred move faster than the Fusion does, which is a shame, considering the Fusion is a very good effort by Ford. I think the Honda dealer across the street plays a role in taht.
  • "The Taurus' SOLE appeal is that its cheap."

    IMO, it sounds like sonata... "Theres nothing all that great about it"
    From edmunds long term tests, the MPG isn't that great, the interior causes some confusion (as with any new car), and the ergonomics are only OK. It looks ok but thats about as good as it get for me.

    -Cj :)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    ".. had bad experiences with a certain brand"

    If you don't want people to reply and converse about something don't post it. As I said, I can sympathsize, but you are the unlucky person who probably got the two bad Acura has ever produced.
  • I recently had a Taurus rental car (I know I know stop laughing) but while I didn't feel like it was fantastic in any one area, it was in CONSTANT use by one of 20 or so people for a long weekend. It was easy to drive, easy to see out of, and got okay fuel mileage (high 20s by its own calculation). The stereo was acceptable, and it was comfortable enough for 4 adults and a baby seat and 3 adults and 2 baby seats.
    The prior 3 rentals have been Fusion Zetecs. Driving nicely got about 30 mpg. I don't know, the Fusion didn't feel any more or less bland than the comparable CamCords.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    And how much of resale value is just based on perception/media hype?

    I think resale value is based on what used cars sell best, and how much buyer's are willing to pay for them. No one knows this better than the used car dealers, so I'm sure that's where the statistics come from. Obviously more people are buying used Accords than Sonatas, and are willing to pay more for them.

    Everything goes in cycles my freinds. Hyundai's and the like cycles are on the way up, and Toyota and Honda are..well lets just wait and see

    I think you are in for a very long wait. Toyota and Honda sales continue to increase every year. More people are buying them every year, not less.
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Elroy 5 - there is no question that an Accord, or a Camry for that matter, will have higher resale values than a Sonata at the 5 year or 10 year intervals - or, whenever you choose to statisticaly calculate it. That, of course, is at the present time with the past perceptional-based values on Hyundai products.

    So what if a 10 year old Accord is worth $5K (for example) more than a comparably equipped and same model year Sonata? The Sonata buyer paid at least $5K less than the Accord buyer did to begin with! Can you buy a 2006 or 2007 Accord EX V6 with leather, etc. for $18,465 before TTL? I seriously doubt it. You can buy a 2007 Sonata Limited V6 with leather for that price. Thus, if all you are going to do is quote resale values, to make it a reasonable and valid arguement, you also have to quote the original purchase price of each vehicle - not the MSRP of each, but the actual purchase price. After all, if we are looking at how much money a person loses over a 10 year period, this is the reasonable and valid comparision.

    Honda is a great car, so is Toyota, as I've owned both. Hyundai is closing the gap very quickly. Is a current Honda Civic or Accord perceptionally or quality-wise the same as an old Honda Civic CVCC rust bucket or the old Accord? Of course not - just as the current Sonata is not analogous to the old Excel.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    w9cw, these posters keep saying that an Accord or Camry is not worth the extra $4,000 when purchased new. I am just pointing out that the Camcord is worth more now, and will still be worth more 10 years from now. The problem with your analogy that Hyundai is improving, is that the Camcords are improving just as much (my 03 Accord is lightyears ahead of what my old 92 Accord was). The domestic car makers have been playing "catchup" for the past 15 years. What makes you think Hyundai will be able to do what they can't? IMO, they will always be a generation behind. They have to have something to copy. If you're going to buy a Sonata, you may as well buy a 4 or 5 year old Camcord. Basicly the same thing.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    autoboy16, you need to learn the difference between "cheap", "inexpensive" and "value." Maybe you will when it comes time for you to buy a new car with your own money.

    It's difficult to determine from your writing style, "Theres nothing all that great about it"
    From edmunds long term tests, the MPG isn't that great, the interior causes some confusion (as with any new car), and the ergonomics are only OK. It looks ok but thats about as good as it get for me.
    , where you are quoting Edmund's (if at all). Are these your opinions or are you trying to quote Edmunds?

    You don't think that ABS, ESC and side curtain airbags are anything special on even the lowest prices Sonata? How about the quietness, ride, interior room, cargo room and (at least) adequate power? What about the rest of the features that are standard equipment? The real world MPG is very good but certainly not the best.

    If you drive a Sonata for a few hundred miles, I'm sure you will not say it is "cheap".
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Elroy, sorry but the Sonata has made great advances against the Camcords in the last 5 or 6 years. IMO that weighs differently than a comparison of '97 cars (10 years old). Sonata is closing the gap litle by little. Who knows what the used car value of the respective cars will be 5 years from now. Honda & Toyota have a proven track record. Hyundai has been improving theirs. It takes a while for a used car's durability & reliability to catch up with the present day market. In 5 years, the present 3 year old Sonata (2003)may be quite close to the 2003 Accord on the used car market. When any car starts to make big improvements, there is a time lag for those improvements to show up in the used car market.

    People "know" the good reputations and bad reputations. Whether a car is improving or falling back, it takes a while for the public to recognize the relative change.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    In 5 years, the present 3 year old Sonata (2003)may be quite close to the 2003 Accord on the used car market.

    I have a prediction. The 03 Accord and 03 Sonata resale values will be about the same difference as the original purchase prices 5, 10 years from now. Worth more now, and later.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,459
    cost more now and cost more later? ;)
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Posts: 992
    The mpg not being all that great came from edmunds stating that the sonata was averaging only 18.* mpg. Here are the links. Be sure to read the comments.

    The interior ect came from edmunds. The "Theres nothing all that great about it" quote came from the post I was replying too.

    The interior of the sonata isn't all that great. It reminds me of a corolla(le) we rented. ABS, ESC, and the usual 6 airbags for that much are ok but its standard on all vehicle trims I like so I dont worry about it. I never said I don't like the sonata. I gave it points for exterior styling. Its OK not that great.

    The sonata is cheap and inexpensive. Its a good car but not great. Too much plastic for me. Don't dislike the sonata and can YOU stop with the personal comments? I have MANY MANY years to buy MANY cars with my own money. I am quite the saver.

    image

    image

    Seems weird but its true. The corolla is "inexpensive". It has many of the $23k sonatas options for 16k. It may be smaller but my mom and i averaged 45mpg. Did I mention that like the accord, its 5 YEARS OLD!!

    -Cj :P
  • fushigifushigi Posts: 1,218
    "..but you are the unlucky person who probably got the two bad Acura has ever produced."

    You seem to have forgotten the tranny issues the TL had. Acura has had way more than just 2 bad vehicles since inception.

    On a more general note, there are so many different manufacturers out there that I would not buy another vehicle from the same manufacturer if the ownership experience of my current or a prior vehicle from that company was less than ideal. Thus, for me personally, I'll have to go through a lot of brands before I'll ever consider another Toyota, Ford, or Mazda. Honda is out based on dealership experience. I never made it into the actual car as the dealership staff was rude. Nissan is still in the game and my current car, a 99 Galant, has been the best vehicle I've ever owned. I will easily consider another Mitsu based on my ownership experience, although I am not attracted to the current Galant at all. My wife's Elantra has been practically perfect in over 50K miles so the Sonata is my current top contender for a next vehicle. GM offers nothing of interest to me; a friend has a Malibu and its OK but nothing more. Subarus are mildly appealing but they seem pricey for what you get. Every friend who has ever owned a VW says they aren't reliable.

    I'm valuing my experience over that of the data aggregators, but in the end I'm the one who has to live with my decision. They influences my opinions, I suppose, but I buy based on my experiences and those of the people around me that I trust.

    As a customer, I probably don't matter much to the car companies anyway. With the exception of a Mercury which didn't even make it to 90K miles (hence the ban on Ford products), I always keep cars for 100+K miles and generally for at least 6-7 years. So even if they do gain my loyalty it's not like I'll be making a dozen purchases in my lifetime.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    I disagree. I drove the new one before going with the Subaru.

    Yeah right. You drove one, you didn't own them. The 03 Accord is much larger, has eight airbags, much stronger stereo, smoother ride, V6 engine, transmission shifts smoother. The 92 Accord was not big enough, under the hood, to get any V6 into, had only one airbag (driver), no vtec (the 03 V6 gets about the same mileage as the 2.2 inline 4 in the 92 Accord did with 100 more hp). The 92 Accord handled great, that's for sure, but considering the larger size and weight of the 03 version, it handles pretty darn good.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "You seem to have forgotten the tranny issues the TL had. Acura has had way more than just 2 bad vehicles since inception."

    Actually, no I haven't. But I've refrained from listing all of the issues that plagued each manufacturer within the last 10 years. Especially Hyundai and Kia.

    As far as your comment on Subarus I couldn't disagree more. Instead of looking at them as being pricey, my take is you get what you pay for. And with Subarus you generally get a lot, although like any other vehicle there are tradeoffs. Admittedly some of the tradeoffs annoy me.

    The dealership experience is important, and I not only shop for a car, I shop for dealer. I also shop based on personal experience rather than the statistics purveyors. My choice of car manufacturers is rather limited. Maybe Toyota, Honda, Subaru, BMW and Porsche.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Thanks for the pix. Both interiors look nice to me. The look of the seat in in Hyundai is nicer than the look of the Toyota. I'd have to sit in them to see the real difference. All the newer cars have a lot of plastic as a cost & weight saving measure.

    When you are ready to purchase a new car, with your own money that you are saving, let us know what you decide. After that, let us know what you decide a few years later when you have a home of your own (& hopefully a nice family to support).

    A few thousand $ might make a difference to you then.
  • I am truly happy you are enjoying your vehicle. I am glad it met your needs and you feel it was a good value.

    I agree that in 15 years they figured out to put a bigger engine in it since they made the car heavier, and they added a bigger stereo.
    The comparison lacks compatibility though, a better benchmark would be the 4 cylinder model, which went from 2.2 to 2.4l and they added vtec (which was available in 1993 in the H22 in the Prelude, which was actually installed in the Accord for export). The V6 is considerably more $$$ even when inflation is taken into account.
    I also am not a fan of Honda automatics, but I am a big fan of their manuals. I think in the late 80s and early 90s, they pretty much wrote the book on FWD manual transmissions.
    I guess if you can make the car be that much more expensive, I would expect some improvement. I am glad you found that it was satisfactory.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    What were the Sonata engineers thinking? Let's put the A/C vents down here, just to be different. Where are we going to put the radio now? We can just cut out a part of the dash and put it there. Bad design, looks awful.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The comparison lacks compatibility though, a better benchmark would be the 4 cylinder model, which went from 2.2 to 2.4l and they added vtec (which was available in 1993 in the H22 in the Prelude, which was actually installed in the Accord for export). The V6 is considerably more $$$ even when inflation is taken into account.

    What I was comparing is the best Accord available in 92, and the best Accord available in 03. There is a big difference. From hanging around on Honda forums, I've found that many 4th generation Accord owner's have swapped in the Prelude H22 vtec engine, in place of the stock F22. The F22 was not a bad engine (for that time), but the H22 dohc vtec was much better.
  • I can see that comparison then, it makes more sense in that light of top of the line to top of the line. I would also add in the $5k or so to go from the equivalent model (like a 4 cylinder EX to the V6 EX).
This discussion has been closed.