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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    You can quote prices you find on the internet but these still are not real world prices.. I purchased my 06 Fusion SEL, with leather, sunroof, heated seats, the works for $23,000.. visit other chat rooms and folks are now getting this same car for as low as $22,500.. So you really have to wonder about these prices all car foums give the public. Its no secret however that a like optioned Accord/Camry will cost you thousands more than a Fusion/Sonata/G6/Altima.. It is only a matter of time for the public to start to question why?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    There are some that play the rental card in this forum. Why then arethere about 50+ Camry's sitting on the Hertz rental lot on my way to work? :confuse:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    I once posted in this forum about a co-worker who chose a Chevrolet Imapala SS over a new Camry XLE V6. He has now owned the car for about 4 months now. Yesterday he asked me to come to the south parking lot to see it again. His Impala is the blue color. He had put on some sharp wheels and tires, tinted all the windows. I told him he need to take pictures and put it on this site. The car is very sharp looking and in my opinion puts any Camry to shame.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    the gas $ saved goes up
    sure it does, but maybe not as much as you think - assuming that you drive quite a bit (20k/yr) and do a portion of that on the highway - your 4 banger might realistically be expected to get 30mpg overall, the V6 26mpg. The 4 cyl. needs 666 gallons of gas, the V6 768, a savings of 100 gallons, $300.00, or $25/month. Drive less,as most folks do, then the savings are less. And while any Accord will command premium resale values you will also get a portion of that V6 premium back at trade-in time as well.
    IMO, of course, while the Accord would be the only car in this group that I would even consider with a 4 cylinder, over 4 years I spend the extra $2200.00 ($45.00/month) - $300.00 x4 + $1000.00 (the initial cost premium less the higher resale - and enjoy that wonderfully smooth and powerful V6.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Its no secret however that a like optioned Accord/Camry will cost you thousands more than a Fusion/Sonata/G6/Altima.. It is only a matter of time for the public to start to question why?

    The why is apparent to the thousands of people every year that buy Camcords. Don't worry about it.

    Most people don't want a Ford. Look at the company's demise. Will soon drop to the #4 automaker from #2. Ouch.
  • neteng101neteng101 Posts: 176
    I'm not complaining... got the SE-V6 on a great lease deal. I can decide when the time comes to move up to either the 8th gen Accord or maybe the next TSX... if the use the Sports4 concept styling for the TSX, it will be a much sharper looking car than the current one. Or maybe buyout at the end of the lease and keep it another 3 years and then trade it in... I doubt if we're going to get another V6 Honda at the SE-V6 prices for a couple of years once the new models come out.

    And I'd rather do a fully loaded car next - with nav, leather, V6 I see the Accords pushing 30k like the Camrys are now. Decisions, decisions... I'm just watching to see what the next Accord and TSX shape up to be in production form now. :shades:

    A Fusion IMO would be a great value buy if they could match the pricing of Sonatas. Yet even the Sonata has available ESC which no Fusion offers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    a fusion se awd has an msrp of about 23,500.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    Fulans are close to advertised Sonata prices in my area, both for purchase and lease, but as you noted, the Sonata comes with some standard features that the Fusion and Milan don't have, such as ESC and (compared to the Fusion) ABS. OTOH, the Milan comes pretty well equipped even in base form, e.g. ABS, six airbags, and power seat.
  • Will soon drop to the #4 automaker from #2. Ouch.

    I believe it was once said that "size doesn't mater." I think in this case, PROFITABILITY matters. BMW isn't even on the list for the top X manufactuers, yet they seem pretty well respected and holy cow, they are profitable.
  • neteng101neteng101 Posts: 176
    Interesting, I did a quick scan based on Edmunds TCO figures and it seems, the Accord is cheapest to insure, followed by the Camry, then the Fusion, and the Sonata costs the most to insure.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Completely wrong... I'd wager there isn't a Dodge car out there (don't count that trucks) that can reach 100K miles without seriously dipping into thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    BMW isn't even on the list for the top X manufactuers

    Yea but BMW was never the #1 or #2 auto manufacturer in the US. They're not hemorrhaging market share or assets right now either.

    Why doesn't Ford do something different in the market instead of trying to take on the CamCords and Corrolvics?
    Go littler, like they do overseas.

    I don't think the Fusion is the answer.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    Says it has cheap feeling and looking interior.

    Case closed.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    My wife's 05 Civic gets raped by the insurance companies, and costs more for her insurance than on my newer and more expensive and much faster sportback.

    Why is that? Too many racers crashing? Too many theives stealing? Her driving record is perfection just like mine.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    People pay more for Camcords because they cost less to run, less to maintain, and less to repair over the years. They also sell for more when you get tired of it. Plus, you get a more luxurious interior, greater power, and less headaches.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    you really have to take the 'tco' numbers with a grain of salt.
    it lists maintenance on an '04 escape limited at over $1800 in year 2.
    insurance doesn't line up either. i have high limits and 500 deductible. the reason i looked it was when i was looking into buying one, one of the years had a number over 2400!
    i just went to the maintenance schedule for 15-30k. even at $60 for the 18,21,24,27 services, plus the $250 30k service, you still total about $500.
    tco is a tool, but i wouldn't take it as gospel.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Amen.

    I looked at the TCO months ago, so I don't remember the numbers, but they were way out of wack regarding taxes and insurance for my area. Plus the depreciation was figured based upon the MSRP, not the street price.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    I recall the last time I glanced the TCO area, I compared Camry, Accord, and Sonata - all three came within dollars of each other over a 5 year of estimated total cost. Actually, I believe the Sonata came ahead slightly - take that with however you'd like to interpret.

    Anyway, insurance itself can be tricky, while the type of car serves as of factor, your driving style, history and others maybe more important to consider...not included with TCO, of course :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    i can see the insurance being off(lots of variation due to age/limits, etc...), but maintenance should be close.
    i guess edmunds now has a little project line up the numbers in tco and tips & advice/maintenance. :)
    i just suggested for them how to do that in 'forums software'.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    I agree. But the taxes were also off quite a bit as I recall. In CT our cars are taxed by the town as "property" and the value goes down from one year to the next. However, each town has a different tax rate and most tax rates change (go up :cry: ) each year. The amount of increase, from town to town, is not uniform.

    It's probably impossible for Edmund's to keep up to date on CT car taxes.

    Under a "changes I'd like to see" heading, like Edmund's has for cars, I'd like to eliminate the tax, insurance and licensing fees. Plus MSRP doesn't appear to be based on the street price of a car. I fianced $10,826 of an OTD price of $17,826. How meaningful is the finance charge compared to someone who financed more or less than I did?

    Not faulting Edmund's, but these are all general averages and need to be taken with a grain of salt as you said.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    I recall the last time I glanced the TCO area, I compared Camry, Accord, and Sonata - all three came within dollars of each other over a 5 year of estimated total cost. Actually, I believe the Sonata came ahead slightly - take that with however you'd like to interpret

    How can Edmonds predict Sonata's resale value 5 years after one buys one when its a new model? That's ridiculous considering 50% of Sonata sales are to car rental agencies.

    Plus some cars you're putting up with for 5 years and others you're enjoying. Accords satisy the latter. I don't care which ones are the former.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,528
    Are unrealistic IMHO. The move to the lowest possible recommended oil change and other service intervals in the last decade and more has been driven by the manufacturers trying to manipulate the cost to own figures for the small number of individuals using them and more for the fleets and rentals using them to estimate costs.

    If I can't afford the difference between one car over another to maintaine for 10 years, I should not be buying a new car.

    Car's values years into the future can't be predicted with certainty as High or Low because of changes in the environment. Remember the high value placed on Enron stock... ;)
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    andres3 wrote: "Completely wrong... I'd wager there isn't a Dodge car out there (don't count that trucks) that can reach 100K miles without seriously dipping into thousands and thousands of dollars in repairs."

    I don't have any experience with Dodge cars, midsize or otherwise, but I do have experience with their minivans. In 1994, I bought a new Grand Caravan ES with the 3.3L V6 - which was used in some of their cars (I believe). My very first mechanical problem developed after 12 1/2 years and 161,000 miles of ownership. Not bad, really, would you think? No other parts were ever replaced, including the water pump, alternator, etc. In fact, at that age and mileage, it was also on its original stainless steel exhaust system.

    I firmly believe with the vast majority of today's cars, if one truly takes care of the car in accordance with the owner's manual severe service schedule, the car will provide long, and lasting, service.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    ct. 169 towns and each one has their own mil rate!
    maybe they could add loan value into equation there somewhere.
    i know edmunds is always looking to improve their tools.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,528
    Were those the era where many transmission failed? You were very successful in maintenance if that's the case. A coworker had two replacements under extended warranty purchased. IIRC the problem was aggravated by running hot i.e. in higher gear at low engine speed which didn't move fluid around very well for cooling.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    my mother drove a '64 dodge dart(used), '74 dart new, '84 lebaron(used), 91 lebaron(used). now drives '03 malibu.
    i hated driving some of those cars, but none of them ever had any major problems.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    First of all, you do make solid points.

    But for me, 166 hp is more than enough. Also, I put about 25k a year on the road (though at the moment it is split pretty evenly between my 06 and my 96). Secondly, I'm a college student, so $25 a month is a bigger deal to me than some with better incomes. I certainly understand, though, the merits of the V6 if you make, say, $60,000 a year vs. working part time and in college.

    Oh, and, I got a certain amount to spend, and it could have been an SE V6 Fusion, a Sonata V6, or an Accord I4. I chose the I4 Accord because it was just that good.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    a fusion se awd has an msrp of about 23,500.

    I was comparing like-optioned cars in the post to which you replied. An SE Fusion is not even close to an EX-V6 Accord in terms of equipment. Nor is a standard-equipment SEL Fusion. You must add options to match it, which I did.

    An SE-V6 Accord with VSA has an MSRP of $23,550. The Fusion AWD starts at over $24,000 according to Ford's website.

    I think what one of our dear members (not necessarily you, explorerx4) forgets is that someone's real-world price in the south is not always the same in the Northwest, Northeast, etc...

    I remember when the boards were full of $24k EX-V6 Accord at last year's 2006 clearance, and he swore nobody could go cheaper than $25,888. Where he/she lived, that may have been true. For many of us, it simply wasn't.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    grad, the 'i was born a poor ***** child' (credits to steve martin) routine isn't going to work. ;)
    you are in college, you work part time, and you have 2 cars. it is not going to add up for most people.
    you could save a lot more than $25 a month if you could find a way to drive less than 25k per year.
    just some friendly advice from a guy who got the senior citizen discount at the grocery store last week. :)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,972
    you are probably right, i put in my local zip code.
This discussion has been closed.