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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    What is the deal with Ford's new engine? They said it was supposed to be more fuel efficient. But in the MKZ/Zephyr I see 18/25 mpg for the '07 with the new engine vs. 20/28 mpg for the '06 with the 3.0.
  • The C1/EUCD platforms are available today... the Focus should already be C1 for 2008

    It should have been C1 since the C1 debuted, but that's water under the bridge. The new Focus project was well under way even before Fields took over as was the Edge and MKX.

    The Focus wasn't a C1 because the US doesn't want a $20,000 Focus (thats not bashing, they don't seem excited abotu $20,000 Civics either).
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    a) the malibu doesnt have a poor record for reliability
    b) GM has cut rebates and its apparent you are basing your statements on GM's incentives from 2 years ago
    c) The Aura's switchgear (and other recent GM cars) is very solid and precise. Huge difference from GM sedans of 5+ years ago. The new GM climate controls found on many of their vehicles have been praised for their feel. It's not that I am incapable of telling the difference, it's that there is no difference. Even so, I'm not paying $5k to have a better wiper stalk.
    d)The new Malibu is much better than the current car so while the name may be the same, the car is not.
    e) resale value was affected by fleet sales and perceived quality which is why GM has cut fleet sales and boosted warranty. Residuals on recent GM entries have been respectable and much better than last gen GM models.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "The "new" Escape STILL has a 4-speed? "

    It does, just like the almost new Rav4 has on its four cylinder model. I agree that the Escape needs a better powertrain but lets not act like they are the only ones using 4 speeds. I believe the Tuscon and Sante Fe also have four speeds standard.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    Your post is accurate. Many people are going to stick with what they have been driving for the last 10 years or so. Since their Toyota didnt break down a lot they wont look at anything else. That is their choice and it makes some sense, but there are so many nice cars on the market I dont see any reason to be limited. People can make excuses all day about why Camcords are clearly superior but the facts dont back that up. Camcords are superior in resale and reputation but not always performance, price or value. Many folks really make themselves feel better by bashing domestic cars as if this is 1985 instead of just saying "I dont like anything domestic and have no desire to buy something lacking a Japanese badge".

    BTW, do Ford haters hate the Mazda6? Just wondering since they are the same underneath the sheetmetal.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    BTW, do Ford haters hate the Mazda6? Just wondering since they are the same underneath the sheetmetal.

    They will now that you pointed it out......
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    I personally see every new car that I have to be a welcome opportuninty to try something else.

    I'm currently "trying out" a 4*4 and loving it. It's old, but it's still a blast to drive.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    do Ford haters hate the Mazda6 - hate would be a strong word, but I at least disrespect Ford's latest business practices (putting many Americans out of work), building things in Mexico instead of working out whatever problems they could with their US labor forces, and continually putting products out on the market before they are really ready. The Fusion and the 6 could both be so much more, IMO. The Mazda, in my book, while I understand it is largely identical to the Fusion - at least continues to be built here - a point in its favor.
  • I think the MazdaSpeed6 is one of the coolest things on the road right now, and with the previous incentives, was a great deal to boot. I think the standard Mazda6 isn't a slouch and they appeal to enthusiasts by offering manual transmissions and actually having them available.
    I think a lot of people bought that car after the Contour SE/SVT. It is about the sportiest mid-size available at the price-point.
  • do Ford haters hate the Mazda6?
    hate would be a strong word, but I at least disrespect Ford's latest business practices (putting many Americans out of work), building things in Mexico instead of working out whatever problems they could with their US labor forces,

    The Mazda6 is made in Flat Rock, Michigan by UAW members.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    didn't read me whole post did you?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    jeffyscott- think this may be 2 things: 1) the engine is not nearly as advanced as proponents would make you think it is and 2) Ford did not and does have have the resources (money) to do anything else. Have read mixed reviews on it, but if it doesn't exhibit the same level of refinement as the Camcordima engines, it may further perpetutate those problems Ford has with powertrains in general. The Fusion with 260hp or so would seem to be an obvious choice for the thing, but, haven't read anything definitive about the engine actually making it under the Fusions hood. Ford does have a history of being late on their promises (eg the 500) so I wouldn't hold your breath in any case.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    "Since their Toyota didnt break down a lot they wont look at anything else"

    Amended sentence:

    Since their Toyota didnt break down a lot and my Ford did they wont look at anything else.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Loren,

    Do you have any plans to test drive the Aura 3.6 "High Feature" V6 Aura XR ????

    Rocky
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "BTW, the Aura is clearly better than the Fusion and 6 in almost every area. Not that those are bad cars, but the Aura is newer and better."

    Pretty vague as to how the Aura is "better". How?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Would the opposite hold true if I owned both a Fusion and a Camry and the Fusion hasn't had 1 single problem and the Camry had engine sludge and a bad transmission? Would that be reason for me to never consider a Camry again?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Honestly, resale value is the last major reason to buy foreign cars. Not that they dont make nice cars, but that is the only area where they have a real advantage in 2007. If you lease resale value isn't going to be a big deal, same applies if you are going to keep the car for a decade. Resale means the most if you plan to get rid of the car in 4-5 years. "

    I agree, resale is where the "imports" have it now over the "domestic" brands. Reliability/quality/fit/finish are all on par across the board in about all makes/models. I feel over the next 5-7 years however this is going to fade away. Consumers are going to get smarter and start to ask "Why am I paying so much more for what advantage"? In fact its already started, get out on the net and visit other chat rooms. Tick, Tick, Tick... time it will only take time. Can't blame Toyota/Honda for trying to capitalize on their PAST reputation. It only makes good marketing sense. Personally, I won't pay the extra $$ for a perceived quality/reliability advantage. ;)
  • The major problem with Ford, or anyone else is, rather than try to fix a problem and make a "good" product they change the name so as to confuse the buying public into thinking they have done something better. You are right about the nameplate, it is the product that people want, not the name, although if the product is good, the name is too. People remember, and you can always "ask the man that owns one". :) That is unless the company continues to mess things up rather than fix them up. But problems will always occur and they can be fixed, if someone will try. ;)
    Another thought, some of today's generation would never be caught dead in a vehicle that "dad or grandpa" had. They have to have something new and different, regardless.

    van
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    " and I am willing to pay for this "premium" I would also say that VW produces "premium" mainstream cars"

    Once again, image. Your willingness to pay for perceived "premium" vehicle is your choice. In my book the Fusion/Milan are on par with the Accord.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,524
    >Camry had engine sludge and a bad transmission?

    Maybe we could ask if the transmissions don't shift right, have flares, and along delays before accelerating? How about if the car has lots of plastic squeaks and rattles reported by owners in discussions? Is that reason to never buy that car again? How about if the company is unresponsive to the owners with these problems and has dealers telliing them they need to just adapt to their car or it's their fault for not driving the car right?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "The major problem with Ford, or anyone else is, rather than try to fix a problem and make a "good" product they change the name so as to confuse the buying public into thinking they have done something better. You are right about the nameplate, it is the product that people want, not the name, although if the product is good, the name is too. People remember, and you can always "ask the man that owns one". That is unless the company continues to mess things up rather than fix them up. But problems will always occur and they can be fixed, if someone will try.
    Another thought, some of today's generation would never be caught dead in a vehicle that "dad or grandpa" had. They have to have something new and different, regardless"

    The Taurus/Sable are good vehicles.. Take a look around the net, msn reliability data for one.. and you will be surprised the reliability is as good as a Camry or Accord. Refinement is what people balk at. And the 500/Montego are also very reliable.. visit other chats around the net. :shades:
  • I was looking at a used 2004 honda accord, V6 graphite pearl. The car has the grey leather seats. I usually think leather seats look nice in a vehicle. Is it just me or do some Honda leather seats look wrinkle like and not tight like other leather seats? They look kind of sloppy. Does anyone have the grey leather seats? How do they hold up? I am trying to look for a used accord that is v6 but it seems impossible to find one that does not have leather seats.
  • I wouldn't consider myself one of the "Ford Haters," however it would take an awful lot to make me even consider another Ford.

    I know this is not scientific as I am only a sample of one, but... My last Ford, a 2004 model, had transmission, driveline, and accessory problems since brand new. Within 15k miles it had quickly developed braking and more driveline problems. Although the car was actually settling down after the warranty expired, some of the issues remained and my confidence was shaken from the 9 visits to the shop I had endured thus far. I traded it in at 46k, for a new Honda Accord.

    What makes it statistically significant is that if you look at the "Problems and Solutions" board or in CR, the same issues appear to be very common... Yet the worst part about my experience was, half the time the dealer wouldn't even acknowledge a problem existed, even though I had seen TSBs that had been issued over a year prior. I don't think you can blame me for being a little turned off from Ford.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yes, but those other models have 4-speeds on their low-end models. Escapes have them all the way up to the Limited model. That's for a different thread though, so I'll stop.
  • I agree that they are good vehicles. They could be great vehicles though if they kept working on making them better. I have had 5 new Fords and for the most part they are good, just not great. Their mileages have never been good, their warrantee is/was lacking,and they have had several problems along the way,although nothing drastic. BTW I presently own a 2002 Sable Deluxe Wagon that I dearly love, however I think my 2006 Hyundai Sonata LX is hands down better, and it too is lacking in the mileage department. I look for a vehicle that seems to best suit my needs at the time, and seems reasonably priced. :)

    van
  • The Taurus/Sable are good vehicles.. Take a look around the net,

    Brother you can find ANYTHING you want on the "net", including people that will agree with you that yes means no.

    My Taurus was a joke. I gave Ford a chance and they soured me for many, many years to their products. Why buy another Ford when there's Honda out there? C'mon. Ford's crumbling.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    This is neither a foreign vs domestic discussion, nor is it the place to dissect the shortcomings of any manufacturer. We're talkin' 'bout the sedans here, not all of their makers' baggage. :P

    Feel free to visit the Automotive News & Views board for more general discussion of the manufacturers. That's the right place.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,784
    How long will the Fusion name last? 5 years? What will the next "New and Improved" name be? To me, it doesn't show much confidence in the product, when you change the name.

    How about Prelude? Or Vigor? Or Legend? Or Integra? Or Tercel? Or Corona? Or Celica? I think all of those names are available. I think Legend is a classy name--maybe Ford will buy that one from Honda.
  • virusvirus Posts: 21
    Just because they look wrinkled doesn't mean they aren't of high quality. They may be far more supple. Last time I looked, Honda had good quality leather.

    I had a Ford Taurus and kept it for well over the 100k mark with no problems whatsoever. No sqeaks or rattles and still ran fantastic. Taurus's of late just aren't on par with their competition.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Yes it would. You hit the nail on the head. One bad ownership experience (or even two) can steer an owner clear of manufacturer.
This discussion has been closed.