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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    "Once again, percepetion and the media constantly bashing into peoples heads that anything from Ford/GM is simply inferior."

    It's a good thing we have you to point out the real deal. I know it's an uphill battle to turn around that sheep herd mentality that's out there.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    He claimed the Fusion/Milan are "tuned" to have a growling type EXHAUST sound to them.

    When the edmunds reviewer commented on the loud engine noise heard inside the V6 Fusion, he was talking about the unpleasant "thrashing" sounds coming from under the hood, not the exhaust. But of course Media=bias so I guess it's all "perception", right?
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Thats funny, I don't hear thrashing... I guess once again ones opinion.. ;)
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Thats funny, I don't hear thrashing... I guess once again ones opinion..

    What is also funny is, I knew you wouldn't hear it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    the basic duratec v engine design is available in several high end variations.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    we have an escape with a 3.0. it does growl some when you rev it up. to me, it isn't a bad sound. of course, i like the sound of a 5.0, too.
  • oldcemoldcem Posts: 309
    I've got the 229 HP variant of the Duratec in my car. Its high compression, has VVT, and a multi-level induction system. Love the fat torque curve it has. Its smooth as silk, and, the exhaust note at 3 grand and above is quite nice. Love the way it performs in my heavy AWD sedan.

    Regards:
    Oldengineer
  • I've got the 229 HP variant of the Duratec in my car. Its high compression, has VVT, and a multi-level induction system. Love the fat torque curve it has. Its smooth as silk, and, the exhaust note at 3 grand and above is quite nice. Love the way it performs in my heavy AWD sedan.

    Regards:
    Oldenginee


    I always thought the baby duratec in the Contour sounded cool too. I miss that car. :cry:
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    about 18 months ago - and looking for a 4 dr sedan the 2 'Detroit' models that I interviewed - the 500 (DT and 6 speed) and the 300 (3.5 V6) vs. a no. of 'Japanese' models. The 500 surprised the heck out of me - a well designed 'space ship', fit and finish that rivaled the 'imports', with good egronomics. It would have been a few grand cheaper than the others, and I might have made into the sales mgr's office except for one thing - I turned the key and actually drove it. 'Thrashy' with a tranny that didn't seem to know what gear to be the best summation - ended up walking away wondering why Ford would put such an 'antiquated' drivetrain in such a good car. Had Ford been able to put a better engine in both the 500/Fusion would suggest to you that there is a strong possibility that they would be losing as much money as they are today, hence the mistake on Ford's part
    For those of you that are 'Detroit' fans, I challenge you to name any 'U.S.' smaller displacement engine 4 or V6 that has represented anything remarkable or innovative in any way? And I think the answer to that question might just be that 11 year old DT, that really wasn't remarkable at the time - just competitive.
  • louisweilouiswei Posts: 3,717
    The US Accord is indeed selling in other countries with the same "Accord" badge. For what I know, Honda is selling the US Accord (and only US Accord) in countries like China and Taiwan.

    The US Accord variant, "Inspire", only exists in Honda's home market - Japan. The model that wears the "Accord" badge in Japan is the same as the Accord Euro.

    Many other countries like Australia and Maylasia has 2 different kinds of Accord - Accord and Accord Euro. In Europe, the only Accord is the Euro model which is essentially the same as the Acura TSX.

    US Accord:
    image

    Honda Inspire:
    image

    Accord Euro:
    image

    Acura TSX:
    image

    As for Toyota Camry I believe there is only one model, which is the same one as we are getting here in the US. However, The Camry that's sold in Asia has a different front fascial and rear end.

    US Camry:
    image
    image

    Asian Camry:
    image
    image
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    What is also funny is, I knew you wouldn't hear it.

    It was 100% predictable that you would hear it. :)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    But no matter what else you think, a family sedan that runs a 7.7 0-60 and gets 35+ mpg in real world (EPA 40/38) is pretty damn impressive.

    This is what might revolutionize the auto industry. True V6 performance but the fuel economy of a Corolla/Civic/Accent/Sentra.

    The point about the CVT us a key one as well. Other than a coolant change at about 60,000 miles it requires no maintenance whatsoever. AFAIK there has not been a single reported instance of any difficulties in this CVT in the Prius', HH's/400h's or TCH's. It has been flawless throughout it's first 3 years of service.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    keep in mind the ford 500 weighs 500 more pounds than the mazda6...I'm not surprised that that engine was a bit more strained hauling around that kind of heft: in fact that should be expected. but in a lighter car, especially with the duratec with vvt, it does quite nicely.

    when I'm puttering around town and keeping rpm's below 3k, it is very quiet. my uncle, who owns a lexus 430, sounded surprised at how quiet it was when I drove him home the other day. this is one characteristic that he knows I don't really care about since I always have told him that I was more interested in a "fun" car than something bland. when we went for an aggressive drive through some twisty roads, we talked about many things about the car, but quiet was never a subject that we ever brought up. but when I decide to drive it smooth and mellow, that engine/car does quite well.

    but when I want to punch it or need to pass someone, acceleration is very linear because of the long flat torque curve. the great thing is that the engine is very strong and pulls hard without being like an on/off switch that leads to torque steer when you don't want it unlike the last generation altima. when vvt surges the car forward at around 5800 rpm, you can definitely hear the engine get a lot louder until it hits it's 6500 rpm redline. it's not like a scream that you'll find in a s2000's 8k redline, but it's nothing like what you hear at 3k. but...duh. when you drive the car at 6k rpm or above, smoothness is not a charcteristic you are going for...it's about aggression, stimulation and speed.

    at least in the mazda6, the duratec does just fine and helps the 6 achieve it's goals: to provide an engaging experience when you want it, and to not be noticed when driving in day to day traffic. and it's not just the duratec that makes the 6 remarkable; it's the best in class brakes, the best in class handling, the accurate and tight steering, comfort for the driver and passengers, body styles that let buyers choose the level of practicality they need, and a great engine.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    at least in the mazda6, the duratec does just fine and helps the 6 achieve it's goals: to provide an engaging experience when you want it, and to not be noticed when driving in day to day traffic. and it's not just the duratec that makes the 6 remarkable; it's the best in class brakes, the best in class handling, the accurate and tight steering, comfort for the driver and passengers, body styles that let buyers choose the level of practicality they need, and a great engine.

    Couldn't have said it better myself! :)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,147
    There is not one Nissan I can honestly say I like the styling of.

    Of course its completely subjective, but I think the 350Z is one of the best looking cars on the road. It draws my attention more than vehicles costing several times more.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,147
    at least in the mazda6, the duratec does just fine and helps the 6 achieve it's goals: to provide an engaging experience when you want it, and to not be noticed when driving in day to day traffic. and it's not just the duratec that makes the 6 remarkable; it's the best in class brakes, the best in class handling, the accurate and tight steering, comfort for the driver and passengers, body styles that let buyers choose the level of practicality they need, and a great engine.

    Well, to each his own. I've been a Mazda fan for almost 30 years, and I really wanted to like the Mazda6 enough to get one, but I made the "mistake" of driving it back-to-back with an Accord. There is simply no comparison. Its not that the mazda is necessarily bad for what it is, I think its more to the point that the Accord is just that good. I was comparing both of these vehicles against a bunch of used luxury cars (A6, S60, S80). The Accord compared favorably, while the Mazda felt exactly like what it is, a midsize sedan on a budget.

    '13 Stang GT; '86 Benz 300E; '98 Volvo S70; '12 Leaf; '14 Town&Country

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    imagine what the car would be with an extra 40 or 50 horsepower of smooth 'Japanese' V6. While Mazda has always had leanings to the sporty 'go cart' side of the handling/ride tradeoff, their cars have suffered for years in the fact that the V6s were Ford engines - all the way back to the Probe/MX5 in the 80s. The Mazdaspeed6 will, of course, easily keep up with Altima, Accord, Camry V6s of this group - at least until that 'blown' engine blows. The 215hp V6 not a prayer.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    There must be two models of Ford 500. I needed a rented car and got a 500. I didn't like much about the car. I felt, the engine had to work very hard and was noisy with not much power.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Posts: 1,230
    imagine what the car would be with an extra 40 or 50 horsepower of smooth 'Japanese' V6.

    Yeah, it's called "torque steer". Ask a late-model Altima 3.5SE owner about it.

    ...their cars have suffered for years in the fact that the V6s were Ford engines - all the way back to the Probe/MX5 in the 80s.

    IMO, The Duratec is a very smooth, flexible, durable engine. It has been for years, and many current Mazda6 owners are former Probe/Contour/MX-5 owners that enjoyed the Duratec V6 so much that they bought another one. I don't think they've "suffered" at all.

    The 215hp V6 not a prayer.

    In 2003, when the Mazda6 was first introduced, the 220HP V6 has right in the thick of things in terms of HP and torque. Granted, the competitors have gone bigger and better since then, but the Mazda6 is due for an overhaul for '08, with the new Duratec 3.5L V6 rumored as an option. :)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    as an owner of an 03 Altima 3.5, yep it sure does have more than it's share of TS, as Nissans generally have for years. And you know what, the car will leave any Mazda V6 in its dust. In terms of proven, reliable engines that are not 'meat grinders' the Nissan VQ has no peers.
    Honda and Toyota, incidentally, have taken a more aggressive approach to limiting TS through suspension geometries and electronic transmission tuning. But all cars with even decent HP to a FWD design will have the 'problem', even the Mazda V6 maybe just not as apparent.
This discussion has been closed.