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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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  • We have been shopping around and we are completely stumped as to what to go with. We thought we would ask the experts their opinions.
    What are the best midsize sportiest sedans in the world in the $30K to $40K range ? No holds barred North American, European and Japanese, any make or model in the world (sold in the US). They must be fully loaded midsized (not full sized please) sedans with an engine that will make the car go like a 'bat outta hell'.

    Format Make, model, price, comment if you wish.
    example: 2007 BMW, 328xi (hopefully comes in a 4 door, we have a child), $39K MSRP, why I like it-300 hp.,4 year/50K mile bumper to bumper warantee, good buy for the money.

    You opinions are greatly appreciated.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's strange Toyota put a rep, TMUSA, on the group to handle PR as quickly as possible to spin the problems and the handling of the problems.

    Strange? I guess one might think so from a domestic pov. But it sounds like a smart move to get a direct representative in the mix to hear out the specific woes and report them directly back to Management. Those few clients with the snap-ring issue apparently greatly appreciated the immediate response and reaction. If the various TSB's that have since been issued do ameliorate the problems then having someone jump right on the problem was certainly the correct move. Maybe the detroiters should take note and use this as a case study ( and the similar Honda tranny situation ) on how to handle a difficult situation and keep clients in the family.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I wouldn't say either the Camry or Prius are "flying off the lot," this is simply not true at this dealer. In fact, I've never seen so many brand new Prius at one dealer at a given time - over 15 in stock at the moment

    November is the 'restocking' month before Toyotathon begins on about Dec 10th. December, especially the last 7 days is normally the third/fourth largest month of the year.

    Toyota announced a couple of months ago that it was doubling production/shipments of the Prius over the last two years of this Gen's life.
  • jimmy81jimmy81 Posts: 170
    What are the best midsize sportiest sedans in the world in the $30K to $40K range ?

    Try the entry level luxury sports sedans thread.

    There they compare the TL, G35, IS, CTS, 328 and others.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Do you want sport sedans or entry level luxury sport sedans. Without luxury the STI is all around best in class and a hoot to drive as well. Turbo, 4wd, easy to drive, reliable and fast. All for about $32K. For $40K and under the IS350, G35, 335, 328 and others all have varying amounts of luxury vs sport. As suggested head on over the Entry Level Luxury Sports Sedan board to see peoples opinions.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    In addition, Infiniti is a highly ranked brand in terms of quality and reliability. Head on over to the G35 problems and solutions board to see some of the issues Infiniti owners face. Car shuddering from the tranny, brake woes, bad headlight assembly and whatever else is there.

    All manufacturers have issues and it's easy to pick on Toyota. But their sales prove people like the brand in spite of some naysaying.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    "Well I am sorry to see that alot of people are still having problems with the 4cyl. I traded my 2007 se 4cyl in alittle over a month ago. It cost me about 4 grand but I am alot happier without the problems. I will never buy another toyota again. My wife and I both buy new cars every two years, So I guess that is money that Toyota will not be receiving from us again. Good luck to everybody ."
    damon34, "2007 Toyota Camry Woes" #2416, 18 Nov 2006 11:45 am

    Yeah I guess they are dissolving away as customers sell them or they're bought back...

    kyhpyder says: It's an issue that seems to be dissolving away in the same way

    This message has been approved.

  • Hold on now!! This is a comparison forum, not one to vent at an automaker with unproven, unwarranted,and outragious statements!
    kdhpyder is correct in stating that one shouldn't take what we see in these forums too seriously. Obviously your cutpasted quote is one where one person expressed frustration, but it isn't indicative of a landslide of disgruntled owners selling their cars!
    The transmission issue does seem to be fading away, just like the sludge issue of a few years back faded away. No doubt there will be other issues which arise in the future. It happens with all automakers; issue come and go. There are no "perfect" cars. Furthermore, there are far more important things in life to get upset about. So chill!
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    I was replying to kdspyder. I provided a response to the outrageous claim that there was no problem anymore as to why. You may have your own opinion. Please don't impose it on me since you obviously protoyota.

    Back to the topic.

    This message has been approved.

  • guestguest Posts: 774
    Hate to break the news to ya.. Cars are a bad "investment"..
  • guestguest Posts: 774
    "You guys need to understand what Accords and Camrys really are selling for, and you need to compare them to American cars that actually have those same options on it. The gap is not what you think it is. The exception to this are the Hyundai products, which are running a couple grand ahead of comparables, so at least I can grant that they are good values. "

    Not as wide a gap as I think uh?? Go to the Milan vs Camry room and scroll through the posts. There was a guy in there that paid $4,500 MORE!@ for a Camry like optioned to a Milan. Tell him your story. He left and hasn't been back since...
    Trying to convince the public Toyota/Honda are actually less or even close in price is a joke. Get out on the net and see other chat rooms, or even here at Edmunds. You claim a Camry SE V6 for $26,000!!!? Thats good? I paid $23,000 for a totally loaded Fusion SEL V6, leather, sunroof, 6CD changer, heated seats, every option that can be put on the Fusion. Once again.. $3,000 dollars difference isn't much?? :surprise:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    damon34 was one of the ones having the problems and he solved it by trading away his vehicle. Nevertheless it is going away as the TSB's are implemented and/or the drivers become accustomed to the vehicle's characteristics.

    damon34's is one situation, out of approximately 400,000 vehicles on the road now. No matter how many anecdotal examples you pick out the weight of numbers falls on the side of the public loving this vehicle. There is no way to get around it, it's too huge. Despite all the specific examples you bring up in sum they still are a tiny part of the crushing weight of another record year.

    How about this for an hypothesis, 'The public loves this vehicle and has few if any complaints about it.'
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    Also forgot to add. I got 0% financing on my Ford which will make it even less $$ over the lifetime of the loan..
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Trying to convince the public Toyota/Honda are actually less or even close in price is a joke. Get out on the net and see other chat rooms, or even here at Edmunds. You claim a Camry SE V6 for $26,000!!!? Thats good? I paid $23,000 for a totally loaded Fusion SEL V6, leather, sunroof, 6CD changer, heated seats, every option that can be put on the Fusion. Once again.. $3,000 dollars difference isn't much??

    Your implication is that someone, by spending $26000 iso the $23000 that you spent on your Fusion, did something wrong. They did nothing wrong, they just wanted a Camry or Accord or 3Series or LS460. It was their money and they chose to spend it as they wished. Why is that difficult to accept.

    You are putting your personal values on an entire population, it can't be done. The person spending $26000 for a new body, new engine 2007 SE Camry over a 2006 Fusion with the old engine obviously saw value in it.... and it was his/her money to spend. They have that right :surprise: .
  • ron_mron_m Posts: 188
    I paid $23,000 for a totally loaded Fusion SEL V6, leather, sunroof, 6CD changer, heated seats, every option that can be put on the Fusion.

    If you picked up a fully-loaded Fusion SEL V6 for $23,000.00 you did extremely well for yourself in regards to your negotiating skills! ;) Congratulations on your new ride. I think the Fusion is a great-looking car myself. Also, I did a whole lot of engineering analysis for some of the electrical interconnect devices(connectors) that are used in the Fusion, so I can guarantee you that a lot of extensive engineering analysis and testing went into the electrical components that my employer supplies to Ford. We really sharpened our pencils on the Fusion-related projects we were responsible for.

    Best of luck to you with your new Fusion! Should do you right.

    Ron M.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,738
    >'The public loves this vehicle and has few if any complaints about it.'

    You sound like a Toyota salesman.

    Go read the section linked above. If you believe that only a small number of problems exist, you are overlooking that most, MOST, people aren't going to be posting on Edmunds about their Toyota problem. In fact, most people will be talked out of there being a problem by their service guy at the dealership. "They all do that." "You just have to learn to drive your 'special' Toyota." "There's no problem."

    A few end up posting here. I understand from another post there's a large Toyota discussion on the net and there were discussions about the lag and flare problems.

    So we obviously differ. I see lots of older folk around here who have bought Toyotas who probably think they have to have lag and or flare during shifting.

    BTW. What's the mileage for first oil change for a Corolla?

    This message has been approved.

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I've been participating and watching that thread since it began, orignally on TN, with the snap ring issue. That's why I stated that since the recent TSB's the issue is dissolving away.

    The sheer volume of numbers speak. And the volume continues to grow. The KY plant is max'd out and at least 100,000 additional units will have to be redirected to the Subie plant in Indiana. This is not the characteristic of a model having major problems. Despite your herculean efforts to the contrary ;) the public does love this Gen6 Camry, even more than before.

    Under normal operating conditions, for all Toyota's it's 5000 miles or 6 months + rotate the tires.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,708
    The thing is, that 6 speed automatic, when it does fail, is $3500. And eventually all transmissions do fail. That $3500 was on an older 2003 Camry. I was in there looking at the used Celicas a few months ago and ran into this guy. Car was just out of warranty and poof - $3500. He was suitably apalled.

    The GM 4 speed can be rebuilt at thousands and thousands of shops around the U.S. for $1400-$1600. And last as long as a remanufactured unit from the dealer.(75% of the time it's just the torque converter that's shot)

    GM and Ford are like this. (so is Hyundai/Kia) - They break more often, to be sure, but they cost about half as much. And Toyota seems to be having real BMW and Mercedes type problems with electronics and new fancy gizmos lately.

    Oh - 0% and 23K - yeah, nice deal :) That's like, what - $18,000 after payments if you were to buy something without 0% financing? That is a complete steal compared to the Camry. About a $10K savings in fact.
  • "And eventually all transmissions do fail."

    Yes, but you fail to understand that WHEN the transmission fails is more important.
    Which is worse for the owner:

    Spending $1400 to fix a crap GM tranny when it goes kaput at 36,001 miles or $3500 for a toyota tranny at 234K?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    My experience with 4 previous Camry's, each in excess of 125000 miles was that they began to 'show age' at 175-200K mi. At this point on my '97 I had the option of putting in a new tranny for $2800 or trade the vehicle for $2500, AS IS. I traded it. $2500 for a 7 y.o. 4c LE with a clunky tranny was acceptable. I got my use out of it.

    As noted above, this in comparison to two separate Chryslers I had in the 90's one of which required a $2500 tranny and the other major work both at under 50,000 mi. On those I did not get my money's worth.

    Oh - 0% and 23K - yeah, nice deal That's like, what - $18,000 after payments if you were to buy something without 0% financing? That is a complete steal compared to the Camry. About a $10K savings in fact.

    That's one great thing about this country. There are so many models and so many choices that everyone can be happy.
This discussion has been closed.