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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    Maybe the IIHS felt sorry for Bill and the gang; the news hasn't been great at Ford lately. That could explain why they tested the Fusion/Milan for the 3rd time when they haven't tested many 2006/7 models at all. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,452
    i would check the revolutions per mile on tires you are looking at. tires of the same 'size' can be very different as actually constructed. view the sizes as 'guidelines'. no, i'm not a pirate of the caribbean. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,452
    it's just one of those things we all have to deal with at times. this is supposed to be about some car or other, but where do you draw the line? it is tough to just let things pass at times, even though they are obviously inflammatory.
    hopefully, everyone is enjoying their mid sized sedans. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Yes, apparently the new joint effort Ford/GM 6-speed isn't that great"

    I don't understand here??? Please link me to where you are seeing the problems with the 6speed transmission in the Fusion/Milan?? :confuse: I searched and searched the web and cannot find any problems? My 6 speed has been fine. Gets me 33MPG doing 75! Better than advertised..
    Thanks for the link
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Wow - the 'face the music' comeback.

    You're probably the only one on the planet that thinks the Fusion outclasses an Accord.

    Whatever.

    Check out the new Altima's interior. Its pushing Accord quality. Leaves the Fusion looking very old.

    Once again, I have never said "out classess", you did.. I will say competes very well however.. Nice how you take a car that is new and compare it to one that is now going on 2 years old... Frankly, I don't see the big hoopla about Accord interior quality.. I feel much of it is beaten into your head by the media and by past reputation. I did not feel the Accords interior was worth the extra $3,000.. And after owning my Fusion SEL V6 for almost a year.. My interior has no rattles or squeaks.. unlike my 2000 Accord!! ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Maybe the IIHS felt sorry for Bill and the gang; the news hasn't been great at Ford lately. That could explain why they tested the Fusion/Milan for the 3rd time when they haven't tested many 2006/7 models at all. "

    With comments like these you wonder why I post like I do? Plain and simple the test by the IIHS is Good for the Fusion/Milan. No longer is this an issue. Comments like these are why I say image is what Ford needs to overcome. They build great vehicles. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "The Accord already has good/good IIHS ratings from 2004. Ford is about 3 years late to get into the game, but looks like they're finally catching up! "

    Once again wrong Honda propaganda.. The Taurus/Sable made Good/Good... quit spreading incorrect information.. :mad:
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "Sure, the Fusion/Milan compete in this segment. Do they have any chance of winning a comparison test (that's not paid for by Ford)? NO! "

    And again, spreading wrong information.. Yes, the Car and Driver segment was sponsered by Ford. Were the 600 people paid by Ford, NO!!. It says these people were not Ford employees, every day Joes like you and I. Now, get off the Ford buying people kick. It says it right in the segment also.. The Fusion chosen was comparible in price to the Camry/Accord. Some say the Fusion was AWD and its not fair. So I guess its unfair the Camry/Accord come with stability control?? Please.. face the music. A Ford won in this comparison. ;)
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    thanks for sharing...i've been wondering what a cvt would feel like.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    find out what Ford did to the Fusion in 1 year to have it rate better in the IIHS crash test ratings. Anyone knowing please link me or let me know. I am very curious.
    In the mean time I am searching the net for answers.. :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Sorry, he probably didn't see the Taurus or Sable as vehicles that are included in this conversation.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    Seriously though, the Mustang's clutch is stiffer than that of our old Civic or ZX2 but it's not as stiff as the Mazda6 V6 I had either. The clutch in the Mustang has a lot more feel and is much more accurate than the one in the 6 too. I would be the 6 has the stiffest clutch out of any car compared in this thread too.

    I'm not too sure what you mean by a "stiff" clutch, but I think it might be the effort you have to use to engage it? I haven't found that myself, but the other comment you make about not having a lot of feel, I'd have to agree completely. The Mazda6 clutch is much like a switch; it's either on or off, and sometimes shifting can be a bit abrupt/ jumpy without rev matching or getting the timing just right.

    For the first couple months after buying this car, I really really missed the feel of my old accord (or for that matter of the accord I test drove before I got the 6). But now, I'm pretty well adjusted to it and can't find significant complaint with the 6's clutch. And although I know it's not as good as an Accord (and there aren't that many manual tranny's that are as good at any price) it's still a very rewarding car to drive, especially when driver inputs are done just right.
  • I think Nissan and Toyota have switched positions as far as interior design and materials is concerned. The Camry always had good materials but a boring interior design, while the Altima had a more "daring" design with cheap materials. Now I feel the opposite is true.

    But while I think the Altima has a better interior overall than the Camry, Fusion, Sonata, Optima and just about everyone else. The Accord and Passat still have the best overall design and materials I think. That's impressive for a car that's 5 years old.

    I just hope Honda puts some cohesive style back into the mix. The current Accord has been a great car...but a stylistic hit it has never been. I don't want anything over the top...but something handsomely stylish (98-2002 Accord for example) would be great IMO.
  • From the survey results on TireRack.com the Kumhos have much better ratings in road noise AND handling than the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4.

    Just about every other tire on the planet is loads better than the miserable Michelins. I've been saddled with them on my Mazda6, and I can't wear them out fast enough! The only thing they're halfway decent in is dry traction, and even that's a stretch. Wet traction is horrible, they're loud, and I'm afraid to use them in the snow. Since I do have snow tires, I've only put about 20K miles on the Michelins, and they're almost worn out! They are definitely not worth the $200 per tire replacement costs.

    I hadn't been considering a 225 width before, but I will now!

    Just be sure to get a tire that will still fit the rim, and will not rub when the car is loaded down or in a tight turn. Also be sure to get a tire with a load rating that's the same or higher than your current OEMs as well.
  • But now, I'm pretty well adjusted to it and can't find significant complaint with the 6's clutch. And although I know it's not as good as an Accord (and there aren't that many manual tranny's that are as good at any price) it's still a very rewarding car to drive, especially when driver inputs are done just right.

    Quoted for agreement. The take-up point on my Mazda 6's clutch seems to change ever-so-slightly, which makes engagement jerky at times. It's definitely not the best manual out there, but since the majority of cars in this class don't even make one available with the larger engine (which is a mistake), the car as a whole more than makes up for it. :)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    not a chance and I'll tell you why - put 600 folks
    in front of a good 'sunday morning preacher type' salesman espousing the virtues of AWD, maybe a couple of glasses of wine (maybe not), and a good meal in their bellies and then turn around and put a V6 vs. a pair of 4 bangers, each equipped with VSC which will actually interfere with that day of 'fun' on the track. I would be willing to bet that not a single comment was ever made about any safety benefits the Accord/Camry with the VSC. It's like selling swampland timeshares in Mississippi. Under these conditions the more powerful and less electronically handicapped car should 'win'.
    A stacked deck usually yields predictable results, I promise you had the Camry been a V6 SE, or the Accord V6 neither of which handicapped by VSC, your 'results' would be very different because there is simply no contest between those engines and what is in the Fusion. Certainly you can get that wonderful? Duratech in the Fusion for about the same number that you pay for 4s in the other two - there is something to the adage that you do have to pay more to get more - something conveniently ignored in this publicity stunt. The commercial makes me laugh, it is proof that anything can be sold!
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    The 6 speed in the Fusion/Milan is not yet the Ford/GM joint venture. Apparently the Edge is the first Ford vehicle to have it. On the GM side it's in the Saturn Aura and Outlook.

    http://wardsauto.com/ar/ford_gm_automatic/

    This does not answer the question as to what the comment that "the new joint effort Ford/GM 6-speed isn't that great" is based on.
  • From the survey results on TireRack.com the Kumhos have much better ratings in road noise AND handling than the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4.

    Just about every other tire on the planet is loads better than the miserable Michelins. I've been saddled with them on my Mazda6, and I can't wear them out fast enough! The only thing they're halfway decent in is dry traction, and even that's a stretch. Wet traction is horrible, they're loud, and I'm afraid to use them in the snow. Since I do have snow tires, I've only put about 20K miles on the Michelins, and they're almost worn out! They are definitely not worth the $200 per tire replacement costs.

    My old MXV4s were great in snow but less so in everything else. I went with Kumhos (Ecasta ASX) this time around as well (and in the stock size as there are fewer options these days with 15" wheels).

    I hadn't been considering a 225 width before, but I will now!

    Just be sure to get a tire that will still fit the rim, and will not rub when the car is loaded down or in a tight turn. Also be sure to get a tire with a load rating that's the same or higher than your current OEMs as well.

    I second this. There are a few other factors...the tire width has to be compatible with the rim width recommendations from the tire manufacturer (you can't take off a 175mm tire and put on a 275mm tire).
    The tire must have the same or better load rating (this usually isn't an issue but something to check). The tire must have clearance not to rub. If you ever go skiing or drive where chains are required, you usually don't have enough clearance to run a +0, although it doesn't sound like you have enough now with the stock tire anyway.
    My stock tires on my last vehicle were 205/60 15 91V while my race tires (mounted on a second set of stock rims) were 225/50 15 91V. Its amazing what another 4" of rubber on the road can do for your car (although the comparison from street tire to race tire isn't fair).
    Your tire dealer/installer/supplier will have an idea what fits and what you can get away with running.
    You might want to check out the Honda Accord Tires and Wheels discussion.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,628
    The report on www.iihs.org tells the whole story on what Ford did to the Fusion/Milan to improve their crash test scores--except why the IIHS moved the Fusion to the top of the list for yet another crash test while many other models have yet to be tested.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Since, IMO, the majority of people are dopes...what do I care what they choose buy or what answers they give on a survey. :P :surprise:

    I bought the car (Mazda6) that was most appealing (for a variety of reasons) to me.

    Not a reason for choosing it, but I am glad that one like it is not in every driveway of my neighborhood and I'm glad that the annual sales total equals about a month of combined Camry and Accord sales.
This discussion has been closed.