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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    and I would have a probelm in your 'gouging' comment - while it is true that Hondas/Toyotas and now even Nisaans will cost a few thousand more at any given option level - the fact is that they are worth every penny of it. Why - because that's what they do sell for and that's what over a million people are willing to pay for them. Trust me, if Ford or GM had a car that was good enough to command premium prices, they would be doing the same thing. You can judgmentally call it gouging, or you could also understand good business.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    The whole point here is that you cannot touch a like optioned Camry/Accord for less than $2-4,000 dollars when comparing a Fusion/Milan/Sonata/G6/Optima/Altima/Mazda-6. The question is - Is the extra $2,000 - $4,000 premium you will pay for an Accord/Camry worth it to you? and why?

    Personally, I think my Accord is worth every extra penny. I bought an Accord in 1991, and for 12 years and 140k miles the car was great. From the way it held together, the way the engine performed, the very few repairs, the way it drove, and what I sold it for. This experience made me a loyal customer.

    These other cars did not exist in 91, and even if they did, I doubt I would have been as impressed with them. The Accord has had the same name all this time for a reason. Because it is one of very few cars out there with a stellar reputation for quality and reliability. You can honestly say " I'm going to buy a new Accord when this one is 10 years old", and actually know there will be a car named the Accord ten years from now. Can you say that about your car?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    Db full throttle: (1) Camry 73.9 (2) Sonata 74.3 (3) Accord 74.7 (4) Fusion 77.1
    This is from post 8526 - and is what matters - full throttle acceleration, that 45-65 pass or whatever. The idle and cruise noise is, of course, close but the above is indicative of what happens when you ask for something out of that DT. And before you think that this doesn't mean much, do some research on the decibel scale (which is logarithmic). 77 dba is a whole lot louder than 74 or 75, but I guess this has already be 'proven'.
    And if you do happen to see me on the road, the only part you may get any kind of look at is my tailpipes! :D
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    Back THEN, it was a big difference. Don't let your past experience with a 15+ year old car blind you to how things have changed since then.

    Honda and Toyota charge a lot for their cars and yet, because they split their lineup into luxury and commuter lines(no place in the world do they do this other than the U.S.), there's a real chasm developing.

    Lexus is nice, but toyotas are beginning to feel seriously bare-bones and cheap lately. And Honda - they charge a fortune for an Accord V6 that's not even as good as the Camry V6.

    Paying 4K or more for a commuter-box isn't smart, IMO. It's not like you are splurging to buy a BMW 3 series or sometihng - it's still a crummy plain vanilla sedan.
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    while it is true that Hondas/Toyotas and now even Nisaans will cost a few thousand more at any given option level - the fact is that they are worth every penny of it. Why - because that's what they do sell for and that's what over a million people are willing to pay for them. Trust me, if Ford or GM had a car that was good enough to command premium prices, they would be doing the same thing.

    Very well said - and true
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    And Honda - they charge a fortune for an Accord V6 that's not even as good as the Camry V6.

    That's your opinion. I don't agree.

    Paying 4K or more for a commuter-box isn't smart, IMO. It's not like you are splurging to buy a BMW 3 series or sometihng - it's still a crummy plain vanilla sedan.

    That's your opinion too. I think it (EX V6 Accord) is the best car you can get for $25k. You buy what you like, and I'll buy what I like. :D
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    "That's your opinion too. I think it (EX V6 Accord) is the best car you can get for $25k. You buy what you like, and I'll buy what I like. "

    You posted it yourself $25K for a V6 Accord EX.. In my region you cannot touch a V6 Accord Ex for anything less. I paid $23,000 for my SEL V6 Fusion, like optioned. Go to the Milan vs Camry Forum and scroll through. You will find a guy who admits he paid upwards of $5,000 more for a Camry than a like optioned Milan.. :surprise:

    I have yet to price the new 07 Altima. But, I would be very surprised if Nissan was asking the same price as a like optioned Accord/Camry. Nissan as always underpriced the big dogs. And remember, because you pay more doesn't mean you get more... ;)
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    You posted it yourself $25K for a V6 Accord EX.. In my region you cannot touch a V6 Accord Ex for anything less. I paid $23,000 for my SEL V6 Fusion, like optioned.

    From my experience over the past 15 years, the Fusion is not worth $23k. No reputation, no history of quality, nothing to indicate the Fusion is worth that much.
  • joe97joe97 Posts: 2,248
    "From my experience over the past 15 years, the Fusion is not worth $23k. No reputation, no history of quality, nothing to indicate the Fusion is worth that much."

    I haven't been following the discussions so fill me in if I missed anything but the other poster didn't say anything about how much the car is worth (at least the statement you quoted), just how much he paid and how much you paid.
  • elroy5elroy5 Posts: 3,741
    Scape2 wanted to know why I thought my Accord was worth $2,000 more than the Fusion. So my reply was, "my experience, or lack of, with both cars".
  • m1miatam1miata Posts: 4,556
    The Accord SE V6 sedan has a price tag of $23,945 before negociation on pricing. This has the alloy wheels and is better equiped than the Camry for the same price. Looks wise, seems fine to me.

    The Coupe is really a good looking car. If we are talking style.
    -Loren
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 17,707
    There are incentives being offered. Check Edmunds. $750 dealer money on Accord, $1500 on Pilot, and leases or low aprs on Odyssey, Element, and Ridgeline. For Toyota, 4Runner, $1500; Avalon, $400; Camry, Camry Hybrid, Solara, Corolla, $400; Yaris, $400; Tacoma, $500; sequoia, $400; Sienna, $500; Highlander,$400; FJ, $1500!!!!; and Matrix, $400. And leases and aprs are offered.

    Toyota is cash to customer; Honda, cash to dealer. I used a Dayton area zip code. In this area I've seen an increase in advertising indicating they're pushing more than they've had to do.

    This message has been approved.

  • Buying a Ford nameplate is like buying something that could vaporize into the history books... look at the Lincoln Zephyr model, gone in ONE year. The Five Hundred... now its a Taurus. No one will remember the Five Hundred. Who knows the Fusion will become the Mondeo in 2009? Resale values are totally unknown and will be blown big time if Ford does that.

    I would have considered the Fusion if I could find it for at least $5,000 less than a comparably equipped Accord. Even then, I'd probably have to drive the thing to its death because regardless of what the books may say, no dealer is going to give you much of a trade in on a used Ford car. That's just it - you generally get crappy trade-ins unless you bring in a Toyota/Honda.

    A comparably equipped Ford Fusion SE V6 on CarsDirect for my area is 20,587 vs. 21,254 for an Accord SE V6. That's less than $1k of savings... nowhere near the $5k mark. The cheapest value buy would be the Sonata V6 at $18,466.

    For the extra couple hundred bucks, I get more engine power, stability control and the peace of knowing its a Honda and will retain its value if I decide to buy it over after the lease is done, or I can just wash my hands and go buy the new Accord in 2009 after they get done ironing out 1st year bugs. :D
  • kamdogkamdog Posts: 28
    I had an '89 Accord, drove it 135000 miles and loved it. Had a '94 Accord, (had them both for a while) drove it 150000 miles and loved it. Have an '03 Accord with only 47000 on it and love it. All sticks, all 4 cyl, all great cars, and each one tighter, more efficient, and smoother than the one before. I will need a lot more than a good review for a new, untested model before I even consider switching. A couple thousand dollars makes very little difference over 10 or so years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,451
    that is just a crazy post. many manufacturers are more than 1 market. even hyundai came back, because of their products in other markets. there are ups and downs. that is the way things work.
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Yea - but Ford has a huge albatross hanging around its neck that's choking the company to the brink. It will be a hell of a thing if Ford pulls itself out of this tailspin. With SUVs rusting on dealer lots and F150 sales falling bigtime the pressure is on the Fusion/Taurus/Focus sector to pull the nosediving Fordplane out of its downward spiral.

    Don't like those odds. Good luck Ford. Tick, tick, tick....
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,707
    So Toyota actually has a puny discount. That's the first in well over a year.

    GM and Ford - 2-5K is common at the end of the year, so that's a huge savings if you are patient.
  • Ever heard of the Edsel? Ford may survive, but some of their lineup and model names might becoming nothing more than a sad memory. The Zephyr was gone after a year of production... that is how volatile Ford's lineup is these days. Next up the Five Hundred becomes the Taurus, the Montego becomes the Sable, the Freestyle becomes the Taurus X.

    Pity those that bought Five Hundreds/Montegos/Freestyles because no one will be looking for a used vehicle that people don't remember the nameplate for. :lemon:

    What next? Fusion becomes Mondeo? Who knows? :confuse:

    And this is the desperation at FoMoCo these days... they're resorting to renaming products with slight revisions to sell them. :sick:

    I would say the only thing safe enough to touch in the Ford stable might be the Mustang and the F150... if they try to mess with those nameplates, Ford will be beyond doomed.

    Oh - and not forgetting no more minivans... the Windstar and now Freestar nameplates are RIP. Try and sell one of those and you'll get nothing like the resale of a Honda Odyssey.

    While the name recognition of the Accord, Civic, Camry, Corolla have years and years of solid automotive engineering advancements associated with them.
  • I agree, I'd pay more for a car that doesn't let me down. I had Chevy, ford and dodge, they leaked oil, vibrated badly and left me stranded. No dealer support. I tried a chevy blazer and sold it after a year. I love my jeep, 140k later but I'll only buy foreign sedans. Honda and Toyota seem to get it right. Chevy, Ford and Chysler have had a century to improve quality but Hyundai does it in 10 years? I could get a Milan AWD cheaper than a Camry FWD but it would feel like a gamble. And that's at the core of it, why continue to put faith in companies that let you down.
    I'm trying to decide between a '07 camry SE 6 and an Altima 07 se 6, any suggestions?
This discussion has been closed.