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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    Since when is a Focus a midsize sedan?

    Hmm. I think I see the confusion now. Those pics I posted about 15-20 posts back were of the new Ford Mondeo and not the Euro Focus. I didn't specify the model because I assumed most of you would already have seen it on Edmunds' Inside Line front page.

    Am I the only one who reads their news?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    I guess you haven't read much about the Aura. It's slightly larger, faster, has more features and is generally thought to have a superior interior. It's somewhat more expensive but that is mostly due to equipment levels. Handling and braking for the Aura/Fusion is about a wash.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "Then you have some reliable ones which are so boring to look at or drive, you wouldn't want one parked in your driveway. "

    If I am willing to park an "exciting" camry or Sonata in my driveway why would I be ashamed to have an Impala or 500 or Fusion or G6? Don't get that. Speaking of red dots, if you look at the detailed ratings iN CR's auto issue you will see mostly red dots and half red dots on domestic vehicles. For some reason in CR a car can have mostly good ratings on components but end up with an average or below average overall ratings. Check it out for youself. Most of those "unreliable" domestics you are speaking of arent even unreliable per CR's tables in the new car issue.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    It's been widely reported that Ford will begin sharing platforms with Europe and Australia. This will include the CD platforms (Fusion, Mondeo). They may import some vehicles short term but longer term the goal is cost savings through platform sharing. There's no good reason to have 2 CD platforms or 2 RWD full size platforms or 2 C platforms. That was a result of organizational boundaries and lack of leadership that let it happen.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    If I am willing to park an "exciting" camry or Sonata in my driveway why would I be ashamed to have an Impala or 500 or Fusion or G6?

    Excellent point IMO. I mentioned a while back that the Taurus, if marketed right by Ford, could steal higher trim level CamCord sales due to it's similar price points. The Taurus (old Five Hundred) will probably be a better overall value than the Camry or Accord V6 at certain price points and it's up to Ford to get that word out. Actually telling people that it's a Volvo for about 2/3 the money wouldn't hurt either. ;)
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "But you simply cannot get that sort of reliability consistently from "American" cars... my Taurus had to go before it even touched 100k because I knew expensive repairs were around the corner (probably would have costs as much or more than the car was worth in trade-in value). There are some high mileage Taures I've read about but they tend to have had major work done to keep them on the roads - rebuilt engine, transmission swap, etc. The junkyard is a high mileage domestic owner's best resource! "

    I would be inclined to believe most modern cars can run 100K miles without major problems, not just Toyotas and Honda. The year of the cars in question is very significant when talking about reliability. People will reference domestic cars from 1985 or 1990 as if it was yesterday. I know time flies, but that is a LONG time ago. The point is CR, JD powers and other sources show that the problems per vehicle for domestic makes is VERY close to that of import makes in many cases and clearly superior to European cars.

    My parents Olds is almost 9 years old with nearly 91K miles and has no tranny or engine work done, it hasnt even had a tune up yet. Give me a break. Lets at least try to focus on horror stories from the last decade or so. I dont think there is any disagreement that 15+ years ago there was a significant difference in quality, but things have changed a lot. Interestingly enough Automobile mag has a long term wrap up of a Ridgeline in the current issue and it had about five unscheduled stops for warranty work. Am I the only one who sees this stuff?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    People can mock the "new" Taurus and Taurus X but they are solid entries in the under $30k segment. The Taurus has the power it needed, a decent interior, available AWD and much more space than a comparably priced Camry or Accord. for familes who dont care much about styling the Taurus is a great choice. I really like the Taurus X as well and it's mileage is much better than the Pilot or Highlander.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The base Pontiac G8 will have a 3.6 "High Feature" V6 which should make it a economical midsize sedan with a sporty flair. :)

    Rocky
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "How about if the car has lots of plastic squeaks and rattles reported by owners in discussions? Is that reason to never buy that car again? How about if the company is unresponsive to the owners with these problems and has dealers telliing them they need to just adapt to their car or it's their fault for not driving the car right? "

    You'll find that people who are loyal to imports will typically say problems like the ones you describe are the exception and not the rule. Sometimes people will trade in a trouble prone import for another vehicle from the SAME brand. Could you imagine anyone doing that with a domestic? I have noticed Toyota hasnt put that 6 speed auto in the RAv4, Highlander or Highlander and I'm wondering if that is related to the problems they are having.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    Either way, a "Euro" Fusion would easily compete or beat the current Camry and next Accord. The Mondeo does that over there so if Ford doesn't Americanize it (as they did with the original Focus) if/when they bring it over it should do very well.

    GM had the right idea and I think Mulally would be a fool not to follow their lead. Start over with the Euro and Aussie models because they can compete with anything out there right now and going forward. What they have now isn't cutting it, not 100% anyway. Time will tell and I am confident that they will again be 100% competitive in time.
  • baggs32baggs32 Posts: 3,209
    I thought I heard a while back that the G8 would be a Bonneville replacement. Is it basically the Grand Prix replacement instead?
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    As I said the Escape probably shouldnt have a 4 speed and its no secret that domestic vehicles are more likely to have 4 speeds than imports. My point is that 4 speeds are used in some of the most popular vehicles in the US such as the Impala, Tahoe, Corolla, RAv4, Escape, etc. In most cases the difference in mileage between a 4 speed and 5 speed is minimal. Its about marketing abd bragging rights more than anythng else. The Aura with a a 4 speed gets 20/30 compared to 21/29 for the Accord with a 5 speed and 200lbs less weight.
  • 14871487 Posts: 2,407
    "80% of Accord buyers are repeat customers!"

    Recent surveys have shown that GM led the industry in customer retention and Toyota was second. Not saying that specific import models dont have extremely loyal customer bases but the fact of the matter is GM does very well with retaining customers which makes it highly unlikely that a significant # of GM owners have major problems with their vehicles. I would suspect that a greater % of GM owners have had less than reliable vehicles than Toyota owners in recent years, but the overwhelming majority of GM products are reliable.
  • " My older in-laws only bought "American" cars until last year, when they traded their Chevrolet Impala in on a loaded Nissan Altima 3.5 SE.

    Wish them luck with their Altima. My mother, after owning a '90 and '99 Taurus, traded for a '03 Nissan Altima. It's had 6 recalls, and over $800 worth of "non-warranty" work, with only 32K miles. Needless to say, she hates it, and wishes she had her Taurus back.

    In 2005 when they replaced the F150, my FIL strongly considered the new Titan. He didn't buy it, "not his style" but just the fact that he considered it over another F150 says alot, IMO.

    He made the right decision, since I've heard nothing but horror stories about the Titan. "


    I must confess, while I was happy to hear that they were considering Japanese makes, I was a little worried that they were only strongly considering the Altima. I know that Altimas in the past were extremely reliable, but I too have heard that quality is slipping somewhat. However, it should give them much better reliability than they had with their 2000 Impala and the 1998 F-150. I remember thinking how ridiculous it was that he had to replace the engine in that thing after only 75k; he doesn't drive hard, his commute provides ideal driving conditions, never towed, no off-road use, etc...

    Nissan has had some issues as of late, but no engines at 75k that I have heard of.

    Whatever the reliability turns out to be, they'll certainly be in a much better position come trade-in time.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    its no secret that domestic vehicles are more likely to have 4 speeds than imports.

    One of my criteria in choosing a midsize sedan was I wanted a 5 speed automatic with a 4 cylinder engine. I was looking at cars that could be bought for maximum of maybe $20,000. IIRC, the choices were Fusion, Milan, Mazda6, Accord, Camry
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Posts: 3,855
    Ford, Chevy, Honda, Toyota all about the same according to this.
  • I was talking about a 2000 Ford Taurus. ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,622
    I was talking about a 2000 Ford Taurus.

    Which has absolutely nothing in common with a 2007 Fusion.
  • You mean something like this?...

    http://car-reviews.automobile.com/news/general-motors-takes-first-and-last-place- -in-new-j-d-powers-customer-retention-study/371/

    Truck sales and general customer loyalty sure, but nowhere near the 80% mark of the Accord.
  • A Fusion and a Taurus, nothing in common? - aren't both made by Ford? Isn't the Fusion engine an evolution of the Duratec in the Taurus? Aren't some of the knobs for the non automatic climate control, the way you turn on the headlights, etc similar?

    Perception will keep buyers away from a good car after a bad experience... Ford will take years to do its damage control. And the Fusion has no track record to back itself up either... unlike the Accord which is in its 31st year of sales! :D

    Check back with me in 30 years and I'll give the Fusion some consideration if there's been good reports. ;)
This discussion has been closed.