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Midsize Sedans Comparison Thread

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Comments

  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    Do not bet on that. Many of those 2 millions happy Camry owners might decide to save $8,000 by switching to Sonatas next time. Or, spend little more and get Azera SE instead of LE.

    Or decide that, although the new Hyundais are OK, they just don't like the brand Hyundai.

    Just like my brother. Would never buy a foreign car. Period. And at 40 years old never needs to work another day in his life.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Exactly.
    Toyota and Honda are not stupid like GM and Ford where Chevrolet and Ford cars and pickups had about half the entire market in the USA. GM and Ford just kept building what their management thought people should have.
    Toyota and Honda do market research and build the quality vehicles people WANT .
  • seniorjoseseniorjose Posts: 277
    "Lets talk about this at the end of this year."

    After all, we are talking about apples and oranges, the CamCord twins have NEVER been the cheapest...only the best overall for over 20 years. Quality, reliability and value come at a higher price, whether you want to buy in to the better autos is up to you and your wallet.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I've seen many 2006 Accord's. I haven't seen many 06 Sonata's though (But the majority of the Sonata's I saw have enterprise stickers on them- my neighbor rented one a while ago).

    I did see three 07 Camry's in the same area once.
    Yesterday, I saw two 07 Camry's in the same parking lot.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Quality, reliability and value come at a higher price, whether you want to buy in to the better autos is up to you and your wallet.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    I think Hyundai is on a mission to prove that wrong. The Sonata's repair and reliability record is already better than many expensive cars with "legendary quality".

    Bob A.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    Quality & reliability sometimes come at a higher price...sometimes not. VALUE does not come at a higher price. Value is where one gets the most for their money.

    My parents bought a new 1983 Olds 98. They had Caddy's in the past and looked at Caddy's then. They found same wheelbase and drive train in the Olds, plus more standard equipment in the Olds for several hundred dollars less (1983 dollars). The higher price of the Caddy didn't make it a better value; the clear value winner was the Olds.
  • choe13choe13 Posts: 348
    This car to me could pose a bigger problem to the sonata than the camcord because of price. Man does it look sweet(after watching the video). This could be nissans g35. If it claims to be as quiet as it is then this will be a good car(priced less than camcord). Hyundai pretty much has the value edge right now in the midsize market, the altima could definitely hurt camcord in their own game too. The altima i have no problem saying overthrows the sonata in styling, its power is going to be awsome, and if its somewhere near as quiet as the sonata it should do well. Reliability is still something that needs to be proven.

    Camry and accord are defnitely looking behind their back with panic at this point
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    AGREE 100%...even though I have been satisfied with my Chrysler T&C LX.
    Toyota and Honda cost more than DaimlerChrysler, Hyundai, Nissan, etc. because of their reputation. I have been lucky with DaimlerChrysler and others can be lucky with Hyundai, Nissan, GM, or Ford but the FACT is that Toyota and Honda have the best reputation built over the past 20 or 30 years. Volkswagen has earned the reputation of being the LEAST reliable.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Its important to note that the last Altima, which was the one vehicle MOST responsible for Nissan's successful turnaround in this country, was a much more direct threat to the Camry and Accord- it came out at time when worthy competitors were thin (think Taurus, last generation Sonata, last generation Malibu, Galant, etc...), and the Camry and Accord have done just fine. This new Altima is very evolutionary and looks to be much less of a jolt to the midsize segment than it was last time. Also, despite its very powerful engines, good handling, high style, and strong reliability record, its worth noting that I've never seen a comparo where an Altima edged out a Camry or Accord from '02-'06- whether it be C/D, Consumer Reports... whomever....

    ~alpha
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Posts: 1,598
    What are you agreeing 100% to? Quality, reliability and/or value?

    Please give examples.

    When you last bought a car did you purchase based on reputation or were other factors more important? And has your vehicle satisfied your expectations, I think you already said "yes".

    Would you have bought a DC product based on its reputation of 30 years ago???
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Prices on the New Camry are actually increasing, according to one poster's message on the dedicated '07 Camry thread.

    Fitzmall (one of the best resources for low pricing to consumers) previously had the '07 Camry at several hundred dollars over invoice. Now, the Camry is priced at $1000 over invoice.

    Looks like there's good demand for the vehicle, AND Toyota is doing a good job managing the supply/demand relationship. Not necessarily good for the consumer, but its promising in terms of incentives/resale issue which Hyundai has yet to dig out of especially with all the cash they're stuffing in the Sonata to hit sales projections. The Sonata is a great car, I wish they didnt do this....

    ~alpha
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Posts: 245
    Just got today's newspaper has AD on Azera SE for $21,300-Ron Tonkin Hyundai at Portland OR.
    Shoot, I should wait few months more. It almost looks like that AD is aims for Camry LE buyers because that's what the MSRP of a LE. It's funny to see things happens so quick. I just wrote about people might buy Azera instead LE yesterday. I did not think they will come down on the price this much tho. I was thinking about $2,000 more for SEs than LEs. Anyway, now it feels like my LX was not the deal of the century anymore. :cry:
  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    I just got my quote for a 2006 Sonata GLS V-6 with sunroof for $17,400 plus TTL. I don't like sunroofs because they chop the head off and its unclear which White is it - the pearl White or the Alpine White ($16,500 was w/O sunroof). They are just as bad to deal with as my local Toy. dealership.

    Everything has come down in price since I cross shopped it with the Camry LE 4 - now at $19,250 (from $20,900 a week ago). One dealership has 37- 2007 Camrys on the lot. Another dealership had less- a total of 9 units - but interesting enough only 2, CE, 1 LE 4 and 6 V-6s. (not to mention that both my local Honda dealership and Toyota dealer had a ton of SUVs). We finally hit $3.00/gallon for the cheap stuff and $3.20 for premium. The V-6 market is probably hurt by that coupled with the 37+ days of rain in N. California. Azeras were going for about $3k off MSRP. I will be heading shortly to my local Toy dealership since its empty.

    Did you buy the Sonanta, and now want to buy the Azera?
  • kwonc71kwonc71 Posts: 245
    I recommend you get V6 if there is not much of price gap. Comparing few MPG to pure fun of powerful V6 is a joke.
    In Portland OR, I can get V6 GLS W/O moon for $15,500 after Loyalty rebate. $16,000 W/O rebate.

    Don't forget to test drive Camry before you make decision tho. You will appreciate Sonata's value way more by doing that.

    I called up the dealership with that AD. They said its already sold, but they will have more on next Friday's AD.
    Its very attempting, but I already trade up my Sonatas 3 times and just bought my wife 06 Sedona. I better not to.
  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    Will do, they maintain that the rebate is $2,000 manufacturer, and $1,000 for financing. (2 separate dealerships have verified this). I dont qualify for loyalty/military rebates.

    I think there are also special lease rates going on the Azera, just an fyi. Maybe check the hyundai website.

    As far as the Camary LE - three dealerships are now pushing a $237/mo lease per the ads.

    Isn't this mid size market so good with pricing now given the level of choices. Altima is next on board, and then Accord for the 2008 model year. By this X-mas, the Sonata, Accord, new camry, and new altima, the prices should be most ideal.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,726
    Plus the new Saturn Aura is coming this fall, and an improved Fusion and Milan (more standard safety features). Lest we forget the domestics. ;) And there's the new Optima also--Edmunds just gave it a very positive first-drive review.

    The other interesting option is the '07 Elantra, which is a mid-sized car based on interior room. Actually has close to the room of the Accord. (Hyundai likes to point out it has more room than the Acura TL--why they make that comparison I am not quite sure.) But it will sell for considerably less than the Sonata. Only a 138 hp I4 available initially, but lots of safety features (not ESC) and luxury (e.g. heated leather seats) available.
  • tinatinatinatina Posts: 388
    So sorry, I forgot the domestics and some others. Also, to go a bit off topic, the new Santa Fe looks awesome. I like it better than new Rav....but I digress. I may wait a bit to see the Santa Fe, and see Honda's new version of the CRV.

    I just placed another call to my salesperson regarding the Sonata, but I did not hear back yet. I will wait, because other dealerships have the same car. It definetly is a good price, but I want to make sure what taxes/fees are included. There should be only regular tax/license (unique to my County), CA Tire Fee, and $45 doc fee. I now get the print-out because my local Toyota dealership screwed up the paper work 3 times, and the person had to get the manager in.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    find out that they don't have to pay the extra $$$ for reliability/quality/value.. what then for Toyota/Honda? :surprise:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Your first paragraph might have some validity but since no one has actually seen the Altima in person and tested it all that's there is ... supposition.

    The last statement is just silly. The altima will likley remain entrenched firmly in 5th place again just ahead of the Fu / lans and the Sonata.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It seems that the Azera is also hurting to get vehicles 'over the curb'. Discounts like this are usually a cry for help. 'Please come in and see this great vehicle'
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Too bad it has a Pontiac Grand-Am style interior...A little too busy for me.

    Guess that's why we all get to CHOOSE what we buy!
  • mf15mf15 Posts: 158
    Glad to see there is some Altima discussion here not much on the Altima board. My son has an 05 se V6 manual and I love the power. But it seems to me that the new Camry has leapfrogged everyone, they have cought up to Nissan power with the v6. So where does that leave the 07 Altima,perhpas in trouble. Nissan might want to upgrade the interior to Camry levels,from what I can gather it is not there yet. But on the other hand Altima is shooting for the younger demographic where Toyota perhaps is not with the Camry, at least not as much as Nissan. Of course body style/price/reliability/MPG may determine who buys what, with all else being almost equal. Great time for the consumer with many great cars to choose from. Old Mike
    PS:I also think the Acura TL might be in big trouble with the new Camry.
  • venus537venus537 Posts: 1,443
    TL worried about the Camry. I don't think so.

    The TL is more fun to drive, has a classier interior and looks infinitely better. I don't see the people who drive TLs giving the Camry a second look.

    A more logical comparison would be the Lexus ES.
  • meateatermeateater Posts: 123
    PS:I also think the Acura TL might be in big trouble with the new Camry

    Huh? TL in big trouble? Have another drink. Sure the new loaded Camry is a nice car, but it is still a Camry. And the TL (and Accord) will be redesigned in a couple years and will obviously up the bar in their respective classes.

    But with $4 -5 gas, everything changes.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    You might look over at the Camry 2007 forum.. several have posted that they have cross shopped both the SE, XLE and the TL and have found the Camry to be a better value.

    For you it might not be but for others it's in the mix. The previous Camry..yep you are correct. This one is a different story,.
  • ftrainftrain Posts: 29
    I guess I'm overwhelmed by the volume of info on these boards. I love them, but I could use some help thinning down my choice.

    I want a mid-size sedan (but I guess I'd consider a Civic or Mazda3). I want a 4-cylinder automatic (I don't know how to drive a stick). I want front and side-curtain airbags and ABS. Reliability is a significant concern for us. Low total cost of ownership is imperative. Good gas mileage is critical. I would love something sporty, but value and price is paramount (unfortunately). My wife and I need to keep the payments down on this one because we really need two new cars, so even though we're only getting one now, we need to keep room in the budget for a second payment probably starting next year. Realistically, we need to spend no more than $20K, because the monthly payment needs to come in under $300--as close to $250 as possible.

    I love the sound of a Japanese car for all you hear about reliability, but I'm starting to doubt that we can afford them. I'm wary of American cars because of their renowned problems and low resale value. (But I also imagine us keeping this car for 7-10 years, so maybe resale is irrelevant?) I've thought most about Accord or Camry, but they feel priced out of our reach (which is actually kind of depressing, since I always have thought of Accord/Camry as being the great middle-of-the-road sedans for the masses). I've wondered if Fusion/Milan might be something to take a risk on, though. Then Mazda 6 seems attractive because its so sporty. And I guess Hyundai Sonata is a wildcard--I just don't know about buying from a company that seems relatively unproven.

    Based on what I'm saying, does any particular car sound like an obvious choice? I guess what I'm finding overwhelming is just that any one of the cars I'm mentioning seems like it actually would be the right car, but I don't see how that can be because I've thought they are more different than that. Am I considering the right things about the cars, or am I not asking an obvious question?

    Maybe I need to give up on these and aim down to a Civic or something in that class.

    I'd love any feedback. Thanks.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,726
    To sum up, you want/need:

    * Mid-sized car (but a compact is acceptable)
    * Reliable (big concern)
    * Good gas mileage (what is "good"?)
    * 4 cylinder automatic
    * ABS and side curtains
    * Low total cost of ownership over 7-10 years
    * Sporty would be nice
    * Most important: value and price

    Here is a thought: a Certified used Accord or Camry, equipped with ABS and side bags/curtains, with an extended warranty. Maybe the Accord would be the best choice because it is a little sportier than the Camry. The I4 models are pretty fuel efficient for their size. Another option would be a used Mazda6. Not quite the reliability record of the Camcord, but sportier and probably not as expensive.

    For a new car, I think your best bet based on your criteria would be the Civic or Corolla, but the Mazda3 would be sportier.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    ftrain,

    Your requirements point directly to the Sonata. The I4 has 162 HP, handles very well, has the best standard safety package in the group. I think the reliability is about the same as Accord and Camry, and probably better than the rest. Give it a drive. You won't believe how much car you get for $15K.

    For those who say this car is unproven, that's not quite true. This body style and engine are now over a year old, and have been very solid and reliable.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Posts: 425
    sounds like a used mazda 3 would be ideal. good reliability in cunsumer reports, very fun to drive, and excellent interior. plus if you ever want the added utility that comes with extra hauling capacity, their hatchback looks great. i know that edmunds, car and driver, and consumer reports love this car over others in it's class. good resale and loads of sporty driving makes a great car to choose. actually, a also like the civic for similar reasons, but it's a bit more sedate.

    if you go with the larger cars (6, altima, accord, camry) these cars tend to weigh quite a bit more which combined with an auto takes any chance at sportiness away (at least for me). if you do want a larger car, though, horsepower will not be enough for that sporty feeling if you stick with a 4 banger. you'll have to go with a car with sporty handling so possibly sonata, but more likely accord, fusion or mazda 6. i just bought a mazda 6 w/ a v6, but priced out the 4 bangers at the same time, and you can get an 05 for around 16K w/ airbags and leather in either the wagon, hatchback, or sedan body styles. but resale and reliability is midpack at best. but consumer reports' difference between average and above average is only a few percentage points, so i wasn't too fixated with these ratings.
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    You hit it right on the money! Accord/Camry have priced themselves right out of the average persons wallet. Reliability has become a moot point these days. Reliability is way up across the board for every automaker, from Hyundai, to Suzuki, from Ford to GM. Do the research on the net and you will see for yourself. I watch a show called Autoline Detroit. The host is very knowledgeable and has all types of guests from all over the auto industry (not just Detroit). In the last segment he showed some serious stats on "perception". The perception that anything built by GM/Ford is unreliable. He showed how Ford and GM are building vehicles that match and rival Honda/Toyota. The consumer perception however is they don't. Another car to look at is the Malibu. Don't be scared off by stigma. Hyundai Sonata is another great choice. Test drive its free... ;)
This discussion has been closed.